What would you.....

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oink

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Offer as a starting point and max for a 10yr cohabitation in spousal support that will be considered fair in court? There is one child of the relationship so CS is already applicable in a 50-50 shared. Also what time limit and clause would you add to the equation?

spouse A = 42k

spouse B = 82k

Understanding that spouse A has to prove entitlement to SS, spouse B in the spirit of being reasonable is offering it anyway
 
Spousal Support WITH children (assuming you are in Ontario here) is for when the NDI is LESS than 46% AFTER CS is paid/received.

In this situation:

Child Support:

Parent A pays 379/month
Parent B pays 738/month
50-50 Shared access would equate to OFFSET CS.A
Assuming the child is 6 or older and no UCCB is therefore paid.

Offset CS of 359/month OR 4308 /year from Parent B to Parent A

Parent B 62623 net income (82K - applicable taxes) - 4308 CS Paid = 58315

Parent A 35414 net income (42K - applicable taxes) + 4308 CS Paid = 39722

39722 / 58315 = 68.11%

I'd offer...nothing. Parent A is at 68% of the NDI of Parent B and therefore WELL outside the scope of eligibility for spousal. Not even close.

If you want to offer SOMETHING (though you'd be stupid to do so in my opinion)....plug the exact numbers into mysupportcalculator.ca and offer the minimum amount for 1-3 years. Put a termination date on it for God's sake if you do it.
 
Interesting...yes it's for Ontario.

Anybody else wants to take a stab at this, or have a different perspective on what has been said?
 
My ex had a NDI at about 72% of mine and I still got hit with ss. I guess it all depends on the judge.

Having said that, the fact that she works and is outside the NDI, I don't think you would be hit with costs for not offering.

I would definitely not agree to entitlement or offer anything. If you're feeling generous with your money, then I would pay cs and do a RESP for your child or pay more in s.7... do more for your child. Don't give more to your ex. Once she has it, it's much harder to stop.
 
HappyDays said:
I would definitely not agree to entitlement or offer anything. If you're feeling generous with your money, then I would pay cs and do a RESP for your child or pay more in s.7... do more for your child. Don't give more to your ex. Once she has it, it's much harder to stop.
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I like the sound of this, and yes I'll rather see my money go directly to the child
 
Going with the more in S7... you would be responsible for 66%, offer to pay 75-80% if you are feeling that generous... that keeps more money in her pocket and lets you be generous... have to say.. I am sure there are MANY people on here that wish their ex's were generous :)
 
Actually, your calculations are off. The range spousal support is between 41% and 46% of NDI for the family. So, in this case family NDI is $98,037 ($39,722 + $58,315). 41% of total NDI is $40,195, so the lower limit would be $473 per year or $39 per month. Higher limit is 46% of the total NDI, $45,097, which means $5,375 per year or 448$ per month.

YOor ex is at 40.5% of the total NDI so I would not offer anything. In my opinion, if SS is based on mere difference in income, do not think that you would be ordered to pay more then $ 200 at most for 5 years. there is no reason for judge to order more that that. Hiher end is usually used in long term marriages.
 
Toutou said:
Actually, your calculations are off. The range spousal support is between 41% and 46% of NDI for the family. So, in this case family NDI is $98,037 ($39,722 + $58,315). 41% of total NDI is $40,195, so the lower limit would be $473 per year or $39 per month. Higher limit is 46% of the total NDI, $45,097, which means $5,375 per year or 448$ per month.

YOor ex is at 40.5% of the total NDI so I would not offer anything. In my opinion, if SS is based on mere difference in income, do not think that you would be ordered to pay more then $ 200 at most for 5 years. there is no reason for judge to order more that that. Hiher end is usually used in long term marriages.
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Good catch Toutou. NBDad gets this wrong a lot.

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f11/she-has-agreed-mediation-8635/index3.html#post61127
 
Yup:
The Basic With Child Support Formula for Amount


  1. Determine the individual net disposable income (INDI) of each spouse:
    • Guidelines Income minus Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions = Payor’s INDI
    • Guidelines Income minus Notional Child Support minus Taxes and Deductions plus Government Benefits and Credits = Recipient’s INDI
  2. Add together the individual net disposable incomes. By iteration, determine the range of spousal support amounts that would be required to leave the lower income recipient spouse with between 40 and 46 per cent of the combined INDI.
 
I don't think what NBDad is saying is really incorrect... the formula states between 40-46%, so under 46% seems to be the same thing? If the income is under 46%, then there is most likely a case for SS... because the range is between 41-46%, even at 41% SS could be awarded... but it is it well over 46%, SS most likely will not be...

I think everyone is arriving at the same destination, just using a different path.

I am a little confused where TouTou arrived at the numbers they used? OP stated incomes were $42K and $82K, not $39,722 & $58,315... or am I missing something?
 
Berner_Faith said:
I am a little confused where TouTou arrived at the numbers they used? OP stated incomes were $42K and $82K, not $39,722 & $58,315... or am I missing something?
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I think $42 and $82 were the gross amounts, so that's the net income they calculated.
 
dinkyface said:
No ... the confusion is about: 40-46% of WHAT?

Guidelines say 40-46% of combined NDI .
NBDad keeps saying 40-46% of payor's NDI .
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Oh okay... I don't know much about SS, so it is always a learning curve for me when this topic comes up. Thanks for the clarification!
 
So B_F tell me.....if it was you in this scenario, what would you offer taking into consideration your own financial needs as well, in the spirit of being fair? Something that even the courts will see as reasonable

Forget about the generous part

Berner_Faith said:
Going with the more in S7... you would be responsible for 66%, offer to pay 75-80% if you are feeling that generous... that keeps more money in her pocket and lets you be generous... have to say.. I am sure there are MANY people on here that wish their ex's were generous :)
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oink said:
So B_F tell me.....if it was you in this scenario, what would you offer taking into consideration your own financial needs as well, in the spirit of being fair? Something that even the courts will see as reasonable

Forget about the generous part
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The courts work on the guidelines & laws. Personally I would offer what the guidelines state... Nothing more... Get that in writing and then after you have a court order or separation agreement, if you want to contribute more to certain things then do so. But offering more because you are generous may set you up for trouble down the road. Its always easier to give more after the fact than try to reduce what an order says. If two years down the road you face some hard times, how likely do you think she is going to say 'oh its okay you can stop paying now'?

I understand you want to be fair and reasonable and that is great, but don't sell yourself short. You owe it to yourself and your child to be fair to yourself as well. If she wants more, let her fight that battle, but there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about simply offering what the guidelines say. Just be smart about it so you don't end up regretting it down the road.
 
Thank you for those words of advice. It seems there is a lot of confusion above from everyone's calculations?

What is the general consensus then?

1. Don't offer anything

2. She is not entitled

3. She is entitled to something


Berner_Faith said:
The courts work on the guidelines & laws. Personally I would offer what the guidelines state... Nothing more... Get that in writing and then after you have a court order or separation agreement, if you want to contribute more to certain things then do so. But offering more because you are generous may set you up for trouble down the road. Its always easier to give more after the fact than try to reduce what an order says. If two years down the road you face some hard times, how likely do you think she is going to say 'oh its okay you can stop paying now'?

I understand you want to be fair and reasonable and that is great, but don't sell yourself short. You owe it to yourself and your child to be fair to yourself as well. If she wants more, let her fight that battle, but there is absolutely nothing unreasonable about simply offering what the guidelines say. Just be smart about it so you don't end up regretting it down the road.
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So just concentrate on the 50-50 shared custody then and CS (legal right of the child) then

Leave SS out of the discussion and any settlement offers, and let stbx prove that she deserves it "just because"


Exquizique said:
More like "Don't offer anything until she solidly proves entitlement".
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oink said:
So just concentrate on the 50-50 shared custody then and CS (legal right of the child) then

Leave SS out of the discussion and any settlement offers, and let stbx prove that she deserves it "just because"
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Yes. I would. Make CS and Custody a priority. SS is something the wannabe-recipient will have to justify.
 
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