What to do if other party leaves the country

What to do if other party leaves the country

sahibjee said:
you yourself state that you and daughter have very little contact with him, I very much doubt the reliability of your claim that his spouse was stay at home.
secondly it appears as if you just want MORE money, after all you did not offer him to reduce child support based on his reduced income when he provided the tax return with less income, of course because that wasnt in your favor. but now that you *think* that he makes more money you are after him for more. shameful to say the least.

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Firstly, I am very very sure his spouse was a stay at home because every year when we exchange tax returns it shows spouse income too and it's been ZERO.
Secondly, I am not after him for more money! U got that wrong. I am after him for what I am ENTITLED to!!!! Last year when he gave me his personal tax return I KNEW he was self employed as he had told me that, yet he did not give me his business tax return. I did not go after him right away to disclose the info and adjust child support! I asked for disclosure after about five months after the tax returns were exchanged . I did not file a motion when i could have if I wanted more money from him. I gave him time to get me the proper disclosure. All of a sudden he is saying now he is leaving! Obviously I am worried as he has not given me any info where he is going, under what capacity and how will all the obligations that he has be taken care of.

And by the way, it's not shameful to ask for what I am entitled to!!!! By law he has to provide full income disclosure and adjust it! He couldn't be the father that a child deserves which I nor the courts force could him to be. That's very shameful, but luckily the laws here have forced him to atleast take financial responsibility of a child that is here because of him! I have no shame asking for him to fulfil his obligations towards our child!

And finally any party that KNOWS their income is low and child support should be reduced would not waste a DAY in filing a motion in court for this change. The fact that the father gave personal income tax less than before but kept same child support SHOWS that combined with his business earnings child support would at bare MINIMUM be the same if not more!
 
First off... YOU are not entitled to CS... the CS and S7 expenses are your daughters NOT yours.

Second, he is free to move where ever he wants, you cannot stop that, even if it is the middle east where CND laws don't stand up.

Third, why are you not filing with FRO?? If he is not being truthful why don't you have a third party handle the situation?

How do you know when he leaves he isn't going to pay CS?

You have a lot of speculation but by your own admission never pursued proper documentation... you waited 5 months. Maybe he didn't realize he had to disclose business income? And Btw, when we do my partner's taxes, we print out the forms before adding any of my information. It is none of his ex's business what I make and she has no reason to know, so we usually leave it out or black it out.
 
BN, you state: "...positive support and a healthy positive parenting background... 1 parent can provide that just as much as 2 parents can." I may be misunderstanding your comment.

I don't think the financial part of supporting children is what you are referring to because obviously when a child's two parents live in separate households there is going to be less money to spend on the child because the parents are maintaining two households instead of one.

But it seems to me you are suggesting that all the other things parents do to support their children, including coaching on social interactions, vetting peers, conferencing with teachers and medical practitioners, taking them to activities, intervening on the child's behalf when necessary, cooking, doing laundry, arranging birthday parties, helping with homework, driving them around, and so on, can be done as well by one adult as well as it can by two. Is this what you are suggesting or am I misunderstanding? If I am not misunderstanding, I wonder what you base your sugggestion on.
 
Long storey short...as long as he stays there, you may be screwed. My ex lives in the Middle East. If your ex pays no income tax here and is a non res, its impossible to know an accurate income. Honestly, any judge I had seemed helpless.
Mine even had his employer write a letter with a fake ass position and a fake ass salary. Thats the way it works there.

If you were to get a new cs order here one option is to place a lump sum in trust for your child. Aside from that you could register with FRO and then when he goes into arrears as we know he will he wont be able to renew his Canadian passport. If he has another passport, then that wont really matter much.

Im not trying to be a negative nancy but you need to learn to live on your income cause its more than likely cs will stop.
 
sahibjee said:
you yourself state that you and daughter have very little contact with him, I very much doubt the reliability of your claim that his spouse was stay at home.
secondly it appears as if you just want MORE money, after all you did not offer him to reduce child support based on his reduced income when he provided the tax return with less income, of course because that wasnt in your favor. but now that you *think* that he makes more money you are after him for more. shameful to say the least.

also he can make a trillion dollars and never withdraw it from the corporation for his own personal use, CS is only payable on personal income AFAIK and not on corporate income (but i could be wrong here)

also if he was running away from paying, he had no reason to tell you guys that he is leaving, he would leave like my ex did - one day just disappear.
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When you and your wife are the only employees of the corporation, who owns the retained earnings?

And, it isn't up to the child support receiver to take the necessary steps for child support to be reduced according to income. If the child support payor is overpaying support, then they can make the same motion in court to correct that.

It isn't shameful to collect the child support your child is owed. It's shameful to avoid paying it, it's shameful to pick up and leave the country with as little notice as possible to your children. It's shameful to not make arrangement before you leave to take care of your responsibilities so children don't feel abandoned and custodial parents don't feel as though they've been left "high and dry". Shameful. And selfish.

The OP is trying to determine how to move forward given the hand that the child support payor has dealt them. The OP is dealing with the collateral damage of the selfishness of the father.
 
What to do if other party leaves the country

Berner_Faith said:
First off... YOU are not entitled to CS... the CS and S7 expenses are your daughters NOT yours.

Second, he is free to move where ever he wants, you cannot stop that, even if it is the middle east where CND laws don't stand up.

Third, why are you not filing with FRO?? If he is not being truthful why don't you have a third party handle the situation?

How do you know when he leaves he isn't going to pay CS?

You have a lot of speculation but by your own admission never pursued proper documentation... you waited 5 months. Maybe he didn't realize he had to disclose business income? And Btw, when we do my partner's taxes, we print out the forms before adding any of my information. It is none of his ex's business what I make and she has no reason to know, so we usually leave it out or black it out.
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Berner faith, you are a regular on this forum and reading this from you makes me wonder why would a senior member say stuff like this! By saying that I am entitled to child support any person with the right head would understand what I mean.
By saying "I AM entitled" for sure I mean that my daughter is! However, "I "am the one who is fully responsible for my daughter . Yes", I "am the one who has full custody of our daughter. From the day she was born , yes it has always been "I " who has taken care of our daughter, and it is "i" who had to spend many years in court to fight for "HER" rights and entitlement . And "I" receive the child support to take care of our daughter.
I fail to understand how some parents have no problem bringing kids in the world and then leave one parent alone to take care if the kids. And honestly speaking child support amounts set in the guidelines is not even enough to cover all the expenses that a child has.
My daughter missed out in doing any extra curricular activities because father would not approve any of them and would not pay.
I also want to make it clear that any parent who receives child support here can also confirm this that we cannot "live" off child support alone. What made u think that I was living off child support and was not working????

Yes, I AM worried for my daughters future. Why should she go on OSAP when her father can support her. Mind you, post secondary expense will not be paid for ME to live off, it will be paid for a bright future for out daughter.

I am so sorry that a simple question turned into such a horrible response. All I wanted to know was what can I do if a father leaves without any info. Yes he told me he was leaving and left it at that. I have sent him emails asking his plans and have got no response. Now THAT is selfish and OFCOURSE I am worried about our daughters future and yes I AM worried about child support that I am entitled too on my daughters behalf which is spent all on my daughter and not on me !

Yes, I made th mistake to wait five months before I asked him for his business disclosure but that shows I am NOT money hungry or living off child support.

FRO won't do $hit! They will enforce the old court order but still can't do anything is father leaves with no trace and especially to a middle eastern country. I don't even know where he is moving!

It is what it is! I guess I will figure it out on my own as time goes by. Who knows maybe he will give me the info and step up to the plate or he will just vanish. Regardless, I will always have to deal with how this is going to affect my daughter and she is in her teens. For now , I am just trying to console her and get her to not feel abandoned, even though father has not really been in her life, she still has feelings that are hurt.
 
MS Mom said:
When you and your wife are the only employees of the corporation, who owns the retained earnings?

And, it isn't up to the child support receiver to take the necessary steps for child support to be reduced according to income. If the child support payor is overpaying support, then they can make the same motion in court to correct that.

It isn't shameful to collect the child support your child is owed. It's shameful to avoid paying it, it's shameful to pick up and leave the country with as little notice as possible to your children. It's shameful to not make arrangement before you leave to take care of your responsibilities so children don't feel abandoned and custodial parents don't feel as though they've been left "high and dry". Shameful. And selfish.

The OP is trying to determine how to move forward given the hand that the child support payor has dealt them. The OP is dealing with the collateral damage of the selfishness of the father.
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Thankyou! You have truly understood my point. Thanks
 
takeontheworld said:
Long storey short...as long as he stays there, you may be screwed. My ex lives in the Middle East. If your ex pays no income tax here and is a non res, its impossible to know an accurate income. Honestly, any judge I had seemed helpless.

Mine even had his employer write a letter with a fake ass position and a fake ass salary. Thats the way it works there.



If you were to get a new cs order here one option is to place a lump sum in trust for your child. Aside from that you could register with FRO and then when he goes into arrears as we know he will he wont be able to renew his Canadian passport. If he has another passport, then that wont really matter much.



Im not trying to be a negative nancy but you need to learn to live on your income cause its more than likely cs will stop.
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I guess time shall tell how I should Persue this. I will give him some time to give me disclosure and if he doesn't them on violist I will have to proceed to court and get something in place . Thanks for the info of witting a lump sum order . That's the least I can do for my daughter.
And I don't live off child support. The guidelines are not that great that one could live off child support. It does make a difference when I left with no info and now I do have worries about living without child support as it did help with the monthly budget. After all I have to pay rent and buy groceries and take my daughter to where she wants to go. This will really hurt her a lot and the age she is in , I can only pray that she stays well an continue to get good grades and follow her dreams
 
Helpinghands said:
Berner faith, you are a regular on this forum and reading this from you makes me wonder why would a senior member say stuff like this! By saying that I am entitled to child support any person with the right head would understand what I mean.
By saying "I AM entitled" for sure I mean that my daughter is! However, "I "am the one who is fully responsible for my daughter . Yes", I "am the one who has full custody of our daughter. From the day she was born , yes it has always been "I " who has taken care of our daughter, and it is "i" who had to spend many years in court to fight for "HER" rights and entitlement . And "I" receive the child support to take care of our daughter.
I fail to understand how some parents have no problem bringing kids in the world and then leave one parent alone to take care if the kids. And honestly speaking child support amounts set in the guidelines is not even enough to cover all the expenses that a child has.
My daughter missed out in doing any extra curricular activities because father would not approve any of them and would not pay.
I also want to make it clear that any parent who receives child support here can also confirm this that we cannot "live" off child support alone. What made u think that I was living off child support and was not working????

Yes, I AM worried for my daughters future. Why should she go on OSAP when her father can support her. Mind you, post secondary expense will not be paid for ME to live off, it will be paid for a bright future for out daughter.

I am so sorry that a simple question turned into such a horrible response. All I wanted to know was what can I do if a father leaves without any info. Yes he told me he was leaving and left it at that. I have sent him emails asking his plans and have got no response. Now THAT is selfish and OFCOURSE I am worried about our daughters future and yes I AM worried about child support that I am entitled too on my daughters behalf which is spent all on my daughter and not on me !

Yes, I made th mistake to wait five months before I asked him for his business disclosure but that shows I am NOT money hungry or living off child support.

FRO won't do $hit! They will enforce the old court order but still can't do anything is father leaves with no trace and especially to a middle eastern country. I don't even know where he is moving!

It is what it is! I guess I will figure it out on my own as time goes by. Who knows maybe he will give me the info and step up to the plate or he will just vanish. Regardless, I will always have to deal with how this is going to affect my daughter and she is in her teens. For now , I am just trying to console her and get her to not feel abandoned, even though father has not really been in her life, she still has feelings that are hurt.
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You can cut the cloth how you want, but some of this is still your fault. There are resources out there to help you and they could have been in place long ago, but you never took advantage of those resources.

FRO can do more than you think. Even if it is an old court order, is some not better than others? If you register with FRO and he takes off, arrears will accumulate, as was already stated, they will then suspend his CND passport and drivers license. He won't be able to enter Canada without paying his arrears. FRO may not always be fast, but they are there for a reason.

This exact thing happened to a family friend of my parents. Her ex took off and they could not find him for 11 years... only 3 months ago she heard from maintenance enforcement (she isn't from Ontario) , he was back in Canada and they had tracked him down. He was over $100K in arrears for the past 11 years... in order for him to have everything reinstated, he had to pay at least half the arrears, which he did and is now on a payment plan for the rest. This person never gave up, she submitted any information she had on him, even if it was a common friend mentioning his name. It paid off for her. Sure it was hard, but you have to think, what would happen if the father passed away with no assets or life insurance? What would you do then. You would make it work. What he is essentially doing is disappearing, you can't stop that and FRO won't get any money from him from a third world country, so your best bet is to register with FRO, let them handle it and move on with your life. You cannot stress about this forever, no matter how hard it gets because your negative energy is going to start to effect your life and your child's life.

And as an FYI... MANY people support themselves through College & University. I did it. I applied for OSAP and student loans. Sure my parents could have afforded to pay for it all and I would not incur any debts afterwards, but that isn't what life is about. Only in divorced families are parents forced to pay for post secondary, which is ridiculous. There is no responsibility placed on children anymore to make it through life and learn a lesson or two.

I have nothing good to say about parents who don't pay CS, it should always be a top priority, but there comes a time where you have to realize there is very little you can do and figure it out on your own. There isn't much anyone else can tell you other than to register with FRO. If you are not willing to do that, then I guess you have to put trust in your ex that he will continue to pay.
 
Helpinghands said:
I guess time shall tell how I should Persue this. I will give him some time to give me disclosure and if he doesn't them on violist I will have to proceed to court and get something in place . Thanks for the info of witting a lump sum order . That's the least I can do for my daughter.
And I don't live off child support. The guidelines are not that great that one could live off child support. It does make a difference when I left with no info and now I do have worries about living without child support as it did help with the monthly budget. After all I have to pay rent and buy groceries and take my daughter to where she wants to go. This will really hurt her a lot and the age she is in , I can only pray that she stays well an continue to get good grades and follow her dreams
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Yes thats exactly what I meant. You need to learn to live without any cs incase it does happen. My daughter definitely does not get as much as she used to while we were together. But you can do 1 of 2 things...spend your time in court fighting or suck it up and go on.

Dont listen to negaive comments about being money hungry...I got the same thing. Its really not worth your time. Any logical adult knows each child is entitled to financial support. Any one who tries to misconstrue what you said is simply trying to cause conflict.

When and if you proceed to court you ask for an income to be imputed...compare what his job title was here and look up similar positions in the middle east to show the judge. Depending on which country, some of them have very high standards of living. Based on an income imputed a judge could order the lump sum in trust. Of course that lump may be very little.
 
Berner_Faith said:
You can cut the cloth how you want, but some of this is still your fault. There are resources out there to help you and they could have been in place long ago, but you never took advantage of those resources.

FRO can do more than you think. Even if it is an old court order, is some not better than others? If you register with FRO and he takes off, arrears will accumulate, as was already stated, they will then suspend his CND passport and drivers license. He won't be able to enter Canada without paying his arrears. FRO may not always be fast, but they are there for a reason.

This exact thing happened to a family friend of my parents. Her ex took off and they could not find him for 11 years... only 3 months ago she heard from maintenance enforcement (she isn't from Ontario) , he was back in Canada and they had tracked him down. He was over $100K in arrears for the past 11 years... in order for him to have everything reinstated, he had to pay at least half the arrears, which he did and is now on a payment plan for the rest. This person never gave up, she submitted any information she had on him, even if it was a common friend mentioning his name. It paid off for her. Sure it was hard, but you have to think, what would happen if the father passed away with no assets or life insurance? What would you do then. You would make it work. What he is essentially doing is disappearing, you can't stop that and FRO won't get any money from him from a third world country, so your best bet is to register with FRO, let them handle it and move on with your life. You cannot stress about this forever, no matter how hard it gets because your negative energy is going to start to effect your life and your child's life.

And as an FYI... MANY people support themselves through College & University. I did it. I applied for OSAP and student loans. Sure my parents could have afforded to pay for it all and I would not incur any debts afterwards, but that isn't what life is about. Only in divorced families are parents forced to pay for post secondary, which is ridiculous. There is no responsibility placed on children anymore to make it through life and learn a lesson or two.

I have nothing good to say about parents who don't pay CS, it should always be a top priority, but there comes a time where you have to realize there is very little you can do and figure it out on your own. There isn't much anyone else can tell you other than to register with FRO. If you are not willing to do that, then I guess you have to put trust in your ex that he will continue to pay.
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FRO can't change a support order, FRO can enforce a support order. FRO can't order disclosure of income, a court does that. The OP had been trying to get disclosure from the payor for many months before he "sprung" the decision to relocate on them. The OPs hands were tied on changing any orders due to the non-disclosure of the paying parent. Should we not attempt to rectify the situation prior to running to the courts to take care of business?

There's too much onus on the receiver of support in these answers. It is up to the payor as much as the receiver to follow these rules and live up to their obligations. Sure, there isn't a lot the receiver of support can do about the situation now, but that isn't their fault. Without a crystal ball telling them in XX number of months the payor will be relocating half way around the world, how could she have done anything to mitigate her damages?

The payor shouldn't have left the receiver feeling "high and dry"...indeed they may not have left her "high and dry" - but she sure as hell feels like he has. She's going to sit on crossed fingers now hoping that he lives up to his obligation, knowing there isn't much she can do if he doesn't.

The child is also feeling abandoned. That's a lot of collateral damage created for several people based on the selfish decision of one solitary party. Planning went into this person's relocation, and he chose not to include the needs of his child in that planning.

I totally empathize with this OP, even though there is not much that can be done right now. Had I not had a few more days warning of my ex's departure, and no enforceable reciprocal agreement to the country he went to, I'd be in a very similar spot.
 
The OP has every chance to register with FRO... But is refusing to do so because she says they won't do anything. Is collecting something not better than nothing? Registering with FRO isn't running to court, it is using the resources available for this type of situation.
 
FRO is only going to collect what is in the existing agreement. They can't change the support order to reflect actual income - unfortunately that requires some cooperation from the paying parent. She hasn't received that cooperation, and now it's too late for that cooperation to be forced upon him.

There are responsibilities on the paying parent as well. Surely leaving the country with a few days notice when you have a child and outstanding issues can not be considered good decisions.

A little forthright honesty and accurate disclosure from the paying parent goes a long way in keeping conflict to a minimum.
 
What to do if other party leaves the country

Berner_Faith said:
The OP has every chance to register with FRO... But is refusing to do so because she says they won't do anything. Is collecting something not better than nothing? Registering with FRO isn't running to court, it is using the resources available for this type of situation.
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Berber faith, did U even read my earlier posts???? I have an existing order filed with FRO which is obviously based on previous income information. I cannot do anything else until I get a court order and since the father is leaving on Monday.... I don't have that chance. Regardless I am going to give him a month to provide disclosure and then will file a motion and get orders that will be filed with FRO , even though it doesn't matter until the father tries to come back to canada .
 
Helpinghands said:
Berber faith, did U even read my earlier posts???? I have an existing order filed with FRO which is obviously based on previous income information. I cannot do anything else until I get a court order and since the father is leaving on Monday.... I don't have that chance. Regardless I am going to give him a month to provide disclosure and then will file a motion and get orders that will be filed with FRO , even though it doesn't matter until the father tries to come back to canada .
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When FRO was mentioned you stated they won't do anything, if they have the order and you have already registered then you should be being paid through FRO... is that correct? Are you actually receiving payments through FRO? Yes obviously you can't update the amount without a court order but with FRO involved you should be getting something currently and when he stops paying FRO will then start their process to collect.

At this point, even updating your court order won't do much because once he is out of the country FRO can't garnish him. I am curious though how you intend to get a court order for updated support when you stated you didn't have his true income?
 
Berner_Faith said:
When FRO was mentioned you stated they won't do anything, if they have the order and you have already registered then you should be being paid through FRO... is that correct? Are you actually receiving payments through FRO? Yes obviously you can't update the amount without a court order but with FRO involved you should be getting something currently and when he stops paying FRO will then start their process to collect.



At this point, even updating your court order won't do much because once he is out of the country FRO can't garnish him. I am curious though how you intend to get a court order for updated support when you stated you didn't have his true income?
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Yes, I have a previous court order filed with FRO and he is paying through FRO . At one point he have me the rum around with FRO too and FRO took his license away and that's when he went into a voluntary program with FRO and has been paying religiously each month. The new order through motion was suggested by takenontheworld on this thread. It was suggested to get an income imputed in father.. Although I don't have any clue where he is going and what job title he has. I will have to explore that later if he does not provide me any disclosure and leaves the country.

So far I am just waiting with no answer to my questions . He hasn't responded to my emails and seems like he will leave without giving me any info. Two things could happen that he continues to pay te amounts that Is registered with FRO so that they don't take any action against him or he completely stops paying and FRO can take his license or passport away. I'm sure that won't be very important to him as he will not be here. I really have no info on him so all I can do is wait and see how this unfolds .
 
I am curious - what sort of arrangement did he voluntarily make with FRO? Did FRO maintain any security (garnishment of wages, bank accounts etc.) or did FRO merely take him at his word? I've heard maintenance enforcement agencies sometimes maintain security, such as a partial license restriction, throughout the voluntary process in the event the payor fails to pay.

Your personal experience would be enlightening.
 
arabian said:
I am curious - what sort of arrangement did he voluntarily make with FRO? Did FRO maintain any security (garnishment of wages, bank accounts etc.) or did FRO merely take him at his word? I've heard maintenance enforcement agencies sometimes maintain security, such as a partial license restriction, throughout the voluntary process in the event the payor fails to pay.

Your personal experience would be enlightening.
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I really have no clue. I do remember that when FRO had taken action his license was taken away, and passport too. I believe that the credit bureau was also informed. All I know is that he did a voluntary payment agreement with FRO . I don't know the details. Something I should find out now. This was so many years ago like 13 years ago. Things might have changed so much with FRO.
 
The big change might be Privacy Act (the enforcement of it). You might not have much luck getting information but it would be enlightening to find out what sort of "arrangement" FRO agreed to and how it is secured. I know sometimes the wage support garnishees remain in effect for 12 yrs in Alberta even if someone is paying on time.
 
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