What to do if other party leaves the country

H

Helpinghands

New member
VERY URGENT!!!!!!!We just found out that the other party is moving outside the country in the middle east. We have requested information as Party is self employed and now is moving. We believe that the party will leave without disclosing any information to us. What can we do in a situation like this? How can C.S paymenst be made or enforced if the party is not even here and we don't have any information about their whereabouts...Should we file an emergency motion? and where do we serve the papers as the other party is no more living at the address that we have. ALl we know is that the other party send an email saying they are leaving to middle east to persue an opportunity. Other than that we have no clue where in mid east? who they work for? what address they are in now? etc ...please help as we are lost and shocked at this new development! we think that party leaves on Monday, so we have not much time
 
Helpinghands said:
VERY URGENT!!!!!!!We just found out that the other party is moving outside the country in the middle east. We have requested information as Party is self employed and now is moving. We believe that the party will leave without disclosing any information to us. What can we do in a situation like this? How can C.S paymenst be made or enforced if the party is not even here and we don't have any information about their whereabouts...Should we file an emergency motion? and where do we serve the papers as the other party is no more living at the address that we have. ALl we know is that the other party send an email saying they are leaving to middle east to persue an opportunity. Other than that we have no clue where in mid east? who they work for? what address they are in now? etc ...please help as we are lost and shocked at this new development! we think that party leaves on Monday, so we have not much time
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Oh, they can do whatever they like.

My ex did the same thing....do you when he's leaving? I managed to get my ex served his last day in the country.

File an emergency motion. Although, I'm not sure what you're looking for? I had custodial issues in addition to child support related ones. The ex also moved to a place that has a reciprocal agreement with Canada regarding CS. I can't imagine that type of agreement would be in place with a middle-eastern country, but I don't know.

They can still pay current support from outside the country, and I'd expect that to continue.
 
All we know is that he is leaving with his family on Monday. He is at his brothers house at this moment. He was paying support based on his income but two years ago he became self employed and has never given usany disclosure about his income that he makes from his business. we asked him to give me the disclosure and he ignored the email. He owes child support from last two years based on what his real income should be and now he is leaving. We have not been given his new job /contract details and the address where he will be going. Not even the city.
we sent an email and text to him about him providing the disclosure but haven't heard from him. we will have to do the emergency motion before he leave canada...we will try to get the address where he is now with his family, but what happens if we can't. can we get orders that he is not allowed to leave the country without the disclosure and would the airports even do anything about this? we don't have his passport # or any other info..maybe FRO could release his information so that we can get his passport info and then alert the airports???? why is he hiding information from us? why not adjust Child support and continue to pay it. Our daughter goes to college next year and he is supposed to pay for it...what will happen now that he is leaving?
we are sooo ocnfused what to do????
 
Maintenance Enforcement agencies need court orders.

You had 2 years to have FRO get after him. What do they have to say about the matter? If you haven't been using FRO I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I think your 'ship has sailed.'

The only thing you can do now is get things in place should he ever return to the country.
 
Helpinghands said:
All we know is that he is leaving with his family on Monday. He is at his brothers house at this moment. He was paying support based on his income but two years ago he became self employed and has never given usany disclosure about his income that he makes from his business. we asked him to give me the disclosure and he ignored the email. He owes child support from last two years based on what his real income should be and now he is leaving. We have not been given his new job /contract details and the address where he will be going. Not even the city.
we sent an email and text to him about him providing the disclosure but haven't heard from him. we will have to do the emergency motion before he leave canada...we will try to get the address where he is now with his family, but what happens if we can't. can we get orders that he is not allowed to leave the country without the disclosure and would the airports even do anything about this? we don't have his passport # or any other info..maybe FRO could release his information so that we can get his passport info and then alert the airports???? why is he hiding information from us? why not adjust Child support and continue to pay it. Our daughter goes to college next year and he is supposed to pay for it...what will happen now that he is leaving?
we are sooo ocnfused what to do????
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The airports/passport authorities will not involve themselves. They don't care how much money he owes to anyone.

Have you filed your existing agreement with the courts and therefore FRO?

What is the custody situation? Joint/sole??
 
Helpinghands said:
All we know is that he is leaving with his family on Monday. He is at his brothers house at this moment. He was paying support based on his income but two years ago he became self employed and has never given usany disclosure about his income that he makes from his business. we asked him to give me the disclosure and he ignored the email. He owes child support from last two years based on what his real income should be and now he is leaving. We have not been given his new job /contract details and the address where he will be going. Not even the city.
we sent an email and text to him about him providing the disclosure but haven't heard from him. we will have to do the emergency motion before he leave canada...we will try to get the address where he is now with his family, but what happens if we can't. can we get orders that he is not allowed to leave the country without the disclosure and would the airports even do anything about this? we don't have his passport # or any other info..maybe FRO could release his information so that we can get his passport info and then alert the airports???? why is he hiding information from us? why not adjust Child support and continue to pay it. Our daughter goes to college next year and he is supposed to pay for it...what will happen now that he is leaving?
we are sooo ocnfused what to do????
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Does your adult daughter speak with her Dad? If so perhaps she can ask him herself if he going to help pay for university? If he says no, then I guess she will have to join the many 10000's of young adults who work and pay for themselves.
 
^^ words from an ancient, who didn't attend post secondary and, if any of her acquaintances did, paid a pittance for same. People need to understand that children from a divorced family suffer consequences far beyond financial, that children of intact families never will - including simple encouragement of education.

Btw, BN, you have a grandchild who is going to be behind the majority of his class in every aspect, because he does not come from an intact household. You should spend less time focusing on how to obtain $100 a month in childcare on your daughter's behalf, and more time on focusing on the best manner in which to integrate and how best to encourage your grandson into holding his own with children who have the support of two equal parents. Huge difference = in everything.

But, OP, you can't restrict the ex' movements, there is no motion to make when one parent chooses not to parent. You can't rely on cs payments [nor should you]. You need to learn to focus on your own household, and caring for the kidlet. Be as self-reliant as you can.

I'm leaving my post as it was, but apologizing to BN in advance - I have spoken out of turn and should not be so harsh to BN in my manner. I do, however, sometimes think that the more elderly of us posting here do not seem to understand that long gone are the days of a post secondary education in $100g or less. Long gone, for the most part, is OSAP. Partner that with the proven statistics of divorced children obtaining lesser grades, less emotional support for higher education, etc.
 
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Helping Hands - if you register with FRO you can certainly make his life pretty miserable for him when he tries to re-enter the country.

Very difficult, if not impossible, to re-enter the country without a valid passport.

Note his last known address (brother's residence) and provide that information to FRO. I believe you will be required to complete a statement of arrears. Others will have more information.

There is a new site called "Frostrating" that has information on FRO.
 
arabian said:
Helping Hands - if you register with FRO you can certainly make his life pretty miserable for him when he tries to re-enter the country.

Very difficult, if not impossible, to re-enter the country without a valid passport.

Note his last known address (brother's residence) and provide that information to FRO. I believe you will be required to complete a statement of arrears. Others will have more information.

There is a new site called "Frostrating" that has information on FRO.
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That's the best bet for this person I'm afraid.

You can't complete a statement of arrears for CS without knowing what the income is and therefore what the support should be. If there is short-payment on existing support, that can be filed with FRO....but arrears on an income not yet known can not be filed. FRO will only enforce what is in the court order.

FRO will suspend his passport - eventually - which may leave him stranded in a country he doesn't want to be/not allowed to be in until he makes a payment or arrangement with FRO.

He would have needed a visa or work permit or something I'm sure to go and work in another country. This has been planned, which is likely why you haven't received anything from him despite asking - he knew what would be coming and didn't want a suspended passport before he left. If he's driving where he's going to work, he won't have a Canadian DL either - that may cause him problems on the work front there - but that's a faint hope really.
 
mcdreamy said:
^^ words from an ancient, who didn't attend post secondary and, if any of her acquaintances did, paid a pittance for same. People need to understand that children from a divorced family suffer consequences far beyond financial, that children of intact families never will - including simple encouragement of education.

Btw, BN, you have a grandchild who is going to be behind the majority of his class in every aspect, because he does not come from an intact household. You should spend less time focusing on how to obtain $100 a month in childcare on your daughter's behalf, and more time on focusing on the best manner in which to integrate and how best to encourage your grandson into holding his own with children who have the support of two equal parents. Huge difference = in everything.

But, OP, you can't restrict the ex' movements, there is no motion to make when one parent chooses not to parent. You can't rely on cs payments [nor should you]. You need to learn to focus on your own household, and caring for the kidlet. Be as self-reliant as you can.
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Actually I have 2 University Degrees, one being my Masters. My Masters cost me around $78k. My grandson is 2 and we, as grandparents and also his mother have started education funds, to ensure we do not have to rely on the deadbeat Dad, who by the way owes 0000's not a 100 in daycare.

The OP seemed to be worried about getting her daughters university paid and therefore the initial step should be to get the daughter, who is afterall a young and I assume capable adult, to confirm he is indeed going to leave her in the lurch or maybe has intentions of assisting in her education.

She can also take the offensive and file court documents, great way to build the relationship for the daughter. Of course if the daughter does not have any sort of communication and therefore a daughter/ father relationship and he is just the "cash machine" then I guess the court emergency motion is,the way to go.

I believe, that university is a section 7 expense and usually reliant on both parties agreeing to the expense. ( I have read that on many occasions in the forum) Daycare is to ensure parents can work so they can provide and save for their childrens future.
 
They may just have an agreement in place for her post-secondary costs. I doubt it's a "presumption" on the OPs part that he would contribute. If it's next year that the child is going, then he may be back in time, with a loaded wallet, to pay for that cost.

There is nothing that can be done regarding arrears not yet awarded. Best you can hope for in the interim is that he pays his ongoing support obligation, and you deal with it upon his return.
 
Sorry BN as per the above, I had already apologized to you for my tone in my initial response before you had responded, and will do so again.

But no, unlike dance lessons or soccer practice, there isn't a judge in the country who will require both parents' prior agreement to reasonable s7 postsecondary expenses for a kidlet, as it is quite obviously in their best interest to obtain same (barring, of course, a child's negligent or dismissive grades).
 
I think I was a little unclear about our situation. Father is mainly absent from daughters life but has been paying C.S after getting in a Voluntary program once his D.L was suspended and his credit rating effected. He has been paying C.S for past many years. Daughter is in grade 11 and has a very little contact with father. Father has always lived in a diffeernt city and therfore would visit daughter once or twice a year and as she grew older the access got much less. If we call him just a support father then yes thats what he has been along with being the sperm donor. Mother has full custody and has taken all decisions since birth to now.

2012 father revealed that next year income will be less than usual and support will be less than before as he is going to be self employed. 2013 he send personal income tax, which is less than before but says he will keep same amount for child support. at that point he had not provided the income tax for his business. we sent him emails to send us his income tax for business but he stalled it. we gave him time, because we never encounter problems with him s support was being paid regularly for many years. recently as my posts here say about what disclosure we need excatly for self employed, we sent him another email to provide the disclosure as answered in my thread about self employed. Arabian and taken have replied and was very helpful.

all of sudden he sends email saying he is moving at end of month and wanted to sort all issues. That is when we send him email again to provide income disclsoure for his business and we can go for mediation. this is when he speaks to our daughter as well. daughter tells us he is flying on Monday with family . We dont want to involve daughter in getting info from father as daughter is very sensitive and we are sure is upset father is leaving the country...she feels abandoned even though father has been absent but i guess teenegers have their own way to deal with things and have emotions that we cant understand.

this is where we are at. Worse would be he keeps paying the FRO te amount that has been filed many years ago. It will not be the right amount based on his real income that we have no clue about. Hence no disclosure given to us and he is leaving without any information with us.

i hope this clears up the issue. FRO will continue to enforce the original orders and father might continue to pay that amount which will be most probably less than what he should actually pay. Section 7 he will not as we have no information about where to contact him and send receipts. post secondary- forget about that.

i dont know what anyone can do in this situation. we appreciate all replies
 
MS Mom said:
They may just have an agreement in place for her post-secondary costs. I doubt it's a "presumption" on the OPs part that he would contribute. If it's next year that the child is going, then he may be back in time, with a loaded wallet, to pay for that cost.

There is nothing that can be done regarding arrears not yet awarded. Best you can hope for in the interim is that he pays his ongoing support obligation, and you deal with it upon his return.
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No there is no agreement between parties about post secondary education. Section 7 is split according to income and mother gives receipts to father and he pays his share. this has been working well between both. This new twist has left mother shocked and daughter shocked and very upset.
 
I don't think an emergency motion is warranted to clear up outstanding financial matters.

He may be a complete business fool and not have the financials you're looking for, he may not be purposely withholding information.

I think it's appropriate to not involve the daughter, but that's my opinion. I think all you can do is keep in email contact with him and wait for him to return to clear it all up.

I'd continue with everything as if he were here, and let FRO take care of everything. He may not plan on shirking his responsibilities at all.....
 
He is no fool! His personal tax return shows that his wife made close to 90K. She was a stay at home so ofcourse this 90K is from the business as she is probably an employee for that business. Regardless, it seems we cannot do much i guess. If he leaves and leaves us with no info and doesnt fulfill at bare minimum the FRO agreement then ofcourse he will not be able to come back . ANd if he does then we deal with him when he does come back.
 
mcdreamy said:
I'm leaving my post as it was, but apologizing to BN in advance - I have spoken out of turn and should not be so harsh to BN in my manner. I do, however, sometimes think that the more elderly of us posting here do not seem to understand that long gone are the days of a post secondary education in $100g or less. Long gone, for the most part, is OSAP. Partner that with the proven statistics of divorced children obtaining lesser grades, less emotional support for higher education, etc.
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Lol how old do you think I am. I have worked in education at the post secondary level. I have met students from all family backgrounds. Rich, poor, intact families and divorced families. In my "prehistoric" experience the ones who fall by the wayside are the ones who lack positive support and a healthy positive parenting background. 1 parent can provide that just as much as 2 parents can. I would suggest that maybe your " proven statistics" are from children of separated families involving older children, who unfortunately become pawns in a bitter divorce battle, or maybe are just children of an intact but disinterested parents who are unaware that there money can not prevent their children from failing and lets not forget the children of alcoholic or drug addicted parents who may falter.

But thanks for the apology. Btw I can take harsh, its all the fun of a good discussion, even at my age!
 
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Helpinghands said:
He is no fool! His personal tax return shows that his wife made close to 90K. She was a stay at home so ofcourse this 90K is from the business as she is probably an employee for that business.
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you yourself state that you and daughter have very little contact with him, I very much doubt the reliability of your claim that his spouse was stay at home.
secondly it appears as if you just want MORE money, after all you did not offer him to reduce child support based on his reduced income when he provided the tax return with less income, of course because that wasnt in your favor. but now that you *think* that he makes more money you are after him for more. shameful to say the least.

also he can make a trillion dollars and never withdraw it from the corporation for his own personal use, CS is only payable on personal income AFAIK and not on corporate income (but i could be wrong here)

also if he was running away from paying, he had no reason to tell you guys that he is leaving, he would leave like my ex did - one day just disappear.
 
There is nothing you can do to stop him from leaving, simple as that.

Just because he is leaving doesn't mean he won't disclose the necessary information. He is still able to. A judge won't prevent him from leaving simply based off of your fears. Had your ex stated in an email that he was leaving to avoid paying you c/s etc, that would be evidence enough for a judge to consider freezing his passport.

This is not an emergency issue. You can still proceed with your motion. If he doesn't show up, you win in absentia and get a default order.

Whether or not he continues to pay, that is an unknown. He has paid for years, so it would be reasonable to believe he will continue.

I don't see where the emergency is in this matter.
 
sahibjee said:
also he can make a trillion dollars and never withdraw it from the corporation for his own personal use, CS is only payable on personal income AFAIK and not on corporate income (but i could be wrong here)
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You are wrong.

Retained earnings may be imputed to the shareholder as income for the purposes of c/s. The percentage of the retained earnings would depend on what was historically withdrawn, and the percentage retained vs the amount paid to the shareholder. If they leave in $20k and the payor made $150k, that would likely be deemed reasonable. But paying $100k and keeping $2mil, would not be reasonable.
 
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