what if you can't pay child support?
- Thread starter bookgirl1209
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The only option is not to pay and then probably the FRO will get involved and garnish you wages or intercept income tax returns etc. Then if they still can't get the court ordered child support, they will attempt to take away you driver's licence, then try to put you in jail...
So no there are no real options unless you can claim for undue-hardship or major costs to facilitate access for the children. (Plane flights etc.) Which I assume you cannot.
My advice is too ditch the lawyer ASAP. It's scary but in some ways so is not being able to pay the lawyer and them keeping your paperwork.
Perhaps you can mitigate your CS payments by making sure he contributes proportionally for Section 7 (daycare and extra-curricular) as well as the health insurance costs, and other special expenses (braces...)
CD
Heck I'm in a similar, worst situation. What keeps be going is the kids and my belief that everything is in transition and temporary. It will get better if you work on making it better.
In the meantime what I have done was relook at everything (refinanced mortgage, cancelled cable, went to internet phone, switched to light speed internet, changed grocery stores and some food options (goodbye freshly squeezed orange juice, goodbye brand names, hello no-names) I us thrift stores for everything except underwear and socks)
So no there are no real options unless you can claim for undue-hardship or major costs to facilitate access for the children. (Plane flights etc.) Which I assume you cannot.
My advice is too ditch the lawyer ASAP. It's scary but in some ways so is not being able to pay the lawyer and them keeping your paperwork.
Perhaps you can mitigate your CS payments by making sure he contributes proportionally for Section 7 (daycare and extra-curricular) as well as the health insurance costs, and other special expenses (braces...)
CD
Heck I'm in a similar, worst situation. What keeps be going is the kids and my belief that everything is in transition and temporary. It will get better if you work on making it better.
In the meantime what I have done was relook at everything (refinanced mortgage, cancelled cable, went to internet phone, switched to light speed internet, changed grocery stores and some food options (goodbye freshly squeezed orange juice, goodbye brand names, hello no-names) I us thrift stores for everything except underwear and socks)
MikeAtWork
New member
Kimberley, the difference here is that you have (had?) FULL custody of your four children. As harsh as that may seem, you still have more control. Getting a second job is bad advice to anyone who is paying CS/SS, or when there is a shared custody arrangement: it directly affects the amount of support one has to pay (and may even provide grounds for retro, as you were "able" to have that second job in the past but "chose" not to get one).
Until the FRO (or governing body that sets the rules) recognizes that people are not inherently evil and need to feed, clothe, and house themselves first; my recommendation is to get a part-time job that pays under the table (I wish I could but just don't have the time). Or you can sell yourself as a guinea pig for research
cashcow4ex
New member
Hey winterwolf, you are paying 1920 yearly so I guess depending on the Province your from. I could see it as high as $2400.00
staysingle
New member
You mentioned earlier he had a WSIB claim. What is the nature of the injury ? What area was he employed in prior to injury? and what did he retrain for?. Not being nosey here but rather trying to help. The devil is in the details.
bookgirl1209
New member
He was a factory worker making very good money. He was injured - carpal tunnel. He opted not to get the surgery and went to Labour Market retraining.
Originally they were sending him to University for engineering but that was too difficult. I actually became his advocate and fought to have him transferred to the College instead. He took Finance, Accounting etc. graduated June of 2010. WSIB reduced his benefits to $22,000 shortly after graduation.
He got a job at an insurance/financial company (comission only) and then quit that 3 months later. He's been telling me since April of 2010 that when he graduates he won't have a job and his benefits will be cut and then he's coming after me for child support.
The thing that bothers me the most is that my daughter who lives with him has a much better lifestyle, opportunities etc than the daughter that lives with me. I am sad for her but I just can't afford to let her do some of the things that her older sister gets to do.,,and if I have to pay child support it will only get worse for her.
Originally they were sending him to University for engineering but that was too difficult. I actually became his advocate and fought to have him transferred to the College instead. He took Finance, Accounting etc. graduated June of 2010. WSIB reduced his benefits to $22,000 shortly after graduation.
He got a job at an insurance/financial company (comission only) and then quit that 3 months later. He's been telling me since April of 2010 that when he graduates he won't have a job and his benefits will be cut and then he's coming after me for child support.
The thing that bothers me the most is that my daughter who lives with him has a much better lifestyle, opportunities etc than the daughter that lives with me. I am sad for her but I just can't afford to let her do some of the things that her older sister gets to do.,,and if I have to pay child support it will only get worse for her.
cashcow4ex
New member
Well your Ex has to be coming up with money from somewhere. He cant afford the lifestyle you say he has on the wages he is getting. I say you dig a little and find out where he is getting the extra income.
bookgirl1209
New member
That's what I think...weeks after quitting the commission job he bought a house with his girlfriend...and I mean a nice $150,000 house.
I have no idea where his money comes from or how he qualified for a mortgage (both their names are on the title) He did move out of our matrimonial home and leave it vacant while it was for sale and lived with his parents for two years. So I'm sure he saved some money. And I do know this year he took money out of his RRSP's.
But on the other hand whenever my younger daughter asks him for something he tells her he doesn't have any money.
I don't know. I guess I'll just tighten my belt and pay and hope that he gets some kind of job so we can call it even.
I have no idea where his money comes from or how he qualified for a mortgage (both their names are on the title) He did move out of our matrimonial home and leave it vacant while it was for sale and lived with his parents for two years. So I'm sure he saved some money. And I do know this year he took money out of his RRSP's.
But on the other hand whenever my younger daughter asks him for something he tells her he doesn't have any money.
I don't know. I guess I'll just tighten my belt and pay and hope that he gets some kind of job so we can call it even.
staysingle
New member
Ok, here is the deal,
He has a factory job ( is this factory still in business). He develops work related carper tunnel syndrome. Refuses corrective surgery. Retrains for finance/accounting. Quits new job. He wants more money from you.
I would tell him to bring it on cowboy. Family court is not a place for men/fathers to aggressive with. Most judges encountered will fillet him for hassling you with this. Trust me that is family court 101 and appears he isn't aware of that. You need to stress to him his arrears with section 7 expenses. You should ethically be going after this already for your children sake. Stay away from paying lawyers for any of this. You can handle thew legal work yourself. He and not you is playing with fire here.
Don't stress this and good luck too you
He has a factory job ( is this factory still in business). He develops work related carper tunnel syndrome. Refuses corrective surgery. Retrains for finance/accounting. Quits new job. He wants more money from you.
I would tell him to bring it on cowboy. Family court is not a place for men/fathers to aggressive with. Most judges encountered will fillet him for hassling you with this. Trust me that is family court 101 and appears he isn't aware of that. You need to stress to him his arrears with section 7 expenses. You should ethically be going after this already for your children sake. Stay away from paying lawyers for any of this. You can handle thew legal work yourself. He and not you is playing with fire here.
Don't stress this and good luck too you
bookgirl1209
New member
Thanks...I'm thnking that I may go the self-represent route.
As of right now I'm exchanging emails with him hoping we can work this out without having to go to court. I just find it incredibly stupid that we are spending all this money on lawyers when there is no reason it can't be settled between the two of us.
Part of the problem is that his figures are always off. He has my income at $4000 more than it is (even though I gave him my T4) and his income is always a little low. He has the cost of health benefits $20 lower a month than it should be (even though I sent him the paperwork) He says the table amounts for what I would owe are $40 more than what I get when I input the figures.
And before anyone jumps all over me _ I KNOW these are piddly little amounts but it adds up. And I've given in over the last three years on many, many piddly amounts that have now added up to thousands of dollars that I have essentially given away in the interests of getting this thing over and done with.
All I want is to move on with my life. We have the kids equal amounts so let's call it even - no one pays anyone.
And for the record, if I were to get a second job - you're damn right he'd come after me for more child support cause now I'm making more.
As of right now I'm exchanging emails with him hoping we can work this out without having to go to court. I just find it incredibly stupid that we are spending all this money on lawyers when there is no reason it can't be settled between the two of us.
Part of the problem is that his figures are always off. He has my income at $4000 more than it is (even though I gave him my T4) and his income is always a little low. He has the cost of health benefits $20 lower a month than it should be (even though I sent him the paperwork) He says the table amounts for what I would owe are $40 more than what I get when I input the figures.
And before anyone jumps all over me _ I KNOW these are piddly little amounts but it adds up. And I've given in over the last three years on many, many piddly amounts that have now added up to thousands of dollars that I have essentially given away in the interests of getting this thing over and done with.
All I want is to move on with my life. We have the kids equal amounts so let's call it even - no one pays anyone.
And for the record, if I were to get a second job - you're damn right he'd come after me for more child support cause now I'm making more.
staysingle
New member
Who is spending money on lawyers?
cashcow4ex
New member
If I am not mistaken, the courts can also review his new girlfriends salary now that they are living together. They can say he now has more disposable income based on the fact the his current girlfriend is paying 50% of the bills.
bookgirl1209
New member
Both of us. I've tried over the years to work things out between us but he always says we'll go to court, or talk to your lawyer.
His lawyer is far more expensive than mine and he seems to create paperwork that causes far more paperwork instead of dealling with the issue in a reasonable manner. Not saying that my lawyer is perfect there are questionable dealings with her also. But I've come to the realization that no one knows the case like I do and I'm probably better off saving the legal fees and representing myself.
Wish I would have though of that before I was $7000 into it.
His lawyer is far more expensive than mine and he seems to create paperwork that causes far more paperwork instead of dealling with the issue in a reasonable manner. Not saying that my lawyer is perfect there are questionable dealings with her also. But I've come to the realization that no one knows the case like I do and I'm probably better off saving the legal fees and representing myself.
Wish I would have though of that before I was $7000 into it.
staysingle
New member
Your the wise one. I blew 100+k before I realized this.
No doubt about it, you will get much better results moving this along yourself. Check in here often, tons of people to help you out. I find the advice I get here much more valuable than formal legal advice. People here tell you like it is. Lawyers lie through their teeth.
No doubt about it, you will get much better results moving this along yourself. Check in here often, tons of people to help you out. I find the advice I get here much more valuable than formal legal advice. People here tell you like it is. Lawyers lie through their teeth.
Yep I was in for $42K before I ran out of money and started to self represent.
I was fearful at first but now I feel better about it than I did when I had a lawyer who didn't take the time to learn about my case and had preconcieved notions about my situation. She gave alot of bad advice that will take years to correct.
Now I am much more informed and know what has to be done which actually allows me to sleep better at night.
CD
I was fearful at first but now I feel better about it than I did when I had a lawyer who didn't take the time to learn about my case and had preconcieved notions about my situation. She gave alot of bad advice that will take years to correct.
Now I am much more informed and know what has to be done which actually allows me to sleep better at night.
CD
WorkingDAD
New member
I thought I was the biggest looser to lost 10k
I am self -rep. and I am still very fearful. Biggest fear now to lost and be ordered to pay cost what would be about $30k
I am self -rep. and I am still very fearful. Biggest fear now to lost and be ordered to pay cost what would be about $30k
bookgirl1209
New member
Well, I don't feel so bad now...
I'm hoping that I can get it settled without going to court, but if I do have to go I'd like to offer that we call it even, neither of us pays child support. This because he maintains he's looking for a job and our incomes are only $12000 apart.
Hopefully we can settle something before that though
I'm hoping that I can get it settled without going to court, but if I do have to go I'd like to offer that we call it even, neither of us pays child support. This because he maintains he's looking for a job and our incomes are only $12000 apart.
Hopefully we can settle something before that though
bookgirl1209
New member
Okay now another question..if I self rep what do I do with my lawyer right now. Do I fire her? Do I have to pay off her bill if I fire her? ( I still owe her $3900)
Do I have to notify his lawyer that I am now self representing?
Do I have to notify his lawyer that I am now self representing?
From the Ontario tables, $32K pays $293/mo, and $22K pays $188/mo. Since you have about 50-50 time, you should only pay the difference, which is $105.
CS guidelines assume you are paying 'normal' taxes on that income. If his WSIB income is tax free, then he is saving $2K in tax (and $1.4K in CPP/EI premiums?), so you could argue that his income for CS calculations should be adjusted upwards, maybe to $24K, which corresponds to $205/mo CS. This reduces the difference a bit more, to $88.
Are you sharing any other costs (e.g. daycare, medical/dental, activities)?
That's the best I can do...
CS guidelines assume you are paying 'normal' taxes on that income. If his WSIB income is tax free, then he is saving $2K in tax (and $1.4K in CPP/EI premiums?), so you could argue that his income for CS calculations should be adjusted upwards, maybe to $24K, which corresponds to $205/mo CS. This reduces the difference a bit more, to $88.
Are you sharing any other costs (e.g. daycare, medical/dental, activities)?
That's the best I can do...
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