What can I expect here????

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coffeeman690

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I was married to a girl that had a child from a other realonship. We were married for 5 yrs and together for 7. The child was 7 when we meet and is now 15.

She never recieved support from the father ever!!! and today I get papers to go to court asking for CS from me??????

Im not sure what to expect from this doesn't she have to mention Him and why is she only going after me??????

Dave
 
When a person enters a relationship with children, and they take the place of the missing parent, then yes CS can be requested. It's called "Loco Parentis".
She would have to show that you acted as a parent in all senses of the word.
IE taking the child to medical/dental appointments, signing permission forms, attending school meetings, discipline, etc.

I would ask that the particulars of the Bio-parent be entered into account to determine if he "is" capable of paying support. Maybe she just walked away from the relationship and never asked him for anything, maybe he disappeared and she was unable to seek support? You'd have to get your hands on some info. The reason being is; if the courts deem that you had acted in place of a parent they could order full CS relative to your income and the CS tables. If the BIO is found to be able to contribute, then the total table amount for a single child less his share would be your CS responsibility. I know it doesn't seem fair that he gets off and you foot the bill. But that's the way family law works/. There is no law that states that 6the parent MUST seek support for the Bio parent, but you can request that his employment and financial records be ordered so that it can be determined what he is responsible for. If you're lucky he gets the order for CS and you don't.

I'd be very curious to know why she never sought support from him?
Maybe there is a way you can use her reason for not seeking support from the BIO to benefit your case???

Here's a couple of links to significant cases that will explain the "Loco Parentis"

http://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/doc/2001/2001abqb1079/2001abqb1079.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2001/2001bcsc1198/2001bcsc1198.html

Here is a link where the bio did not pay support until the mother sought support from the step father. Step father was order to pay support, but so too was the bio father.

Worth reading to educate yourself on how the courts tend to rule.


http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2006/2006bcsc1160/2006bcsc1160.html
 
Thank You for that info and I'm wondering if I need to have a lawyer for my first court date, Can I do this on my own or should I get one. I live in Hamilton and is there a way of finding a good lawyer that can help me?

Dave
 
I think that you need to ask yourself a few questions.
Are you confident that you did NOT act as a parent to the child?
Who was responsible for the discipline?
And are you confident that you can convey your position to argue that you were not in place of a parent, and that the bio dad should be held responsible (or at the very least, partially responsible) for the child. You'd have to request his financial statement or acquire it some way from him to have at your first appearance so that the courts can make a ruling on his financial obligation.

Other wise I see your fist appearance as a preliminary one where you'd want to get an order to get his financial statement PLUS his last three years of Tax Assessments and supporting T-4's etc.
If the appearance is to get an order for his documents, the court may order interim CS until all documentation is received to substantiate your claim that he is responsible for the child. You may be quite able to self rep. Maybe just getting some legal advise on how to proceed and what your chances are would be all you need. We got a legal advise letter from a lawyer once, it cost us I think $200. We provided all the background, and any recent orders, and supporting documents and the lawyer provided a legal "Opinion Letter". It included how to proceed, and what forms to file and in what order etc.
 
What I dont understand is why do I have to get his Info !! why didn't she ask him for it.

Yes I was the father figure when she was younger but he came back into the picture when she was 12 and has some sort of contact with him. The reason for us seperating was the child didn't like are rules of the home and when she was 14 she packed up her stuff and left us a letter stating that she hated me and was never going to live here again, if I was in this house!!

I want to help out but Cant understand how a judge would make me only pay when I didn't even make this child. The Father has a job rents a condo In T.O I'm sure he has $$$ and how do I get him to show me his T4 and other income statments?

Sorry for asking many Questions but I dont know where to begin

Dave
 
If you read the links to the case files it explains the thought process behind why a court would order a non-bio parent to pay CS.
It has to do with the best interests of the child.

IE if you were the only father figure then the courts hold you accountable as if you were the bio. The reasoning being, the child was financially supported by you, and provided for and raised in every sense of the word by you as a parent, and the courts feel that it would be a detriment to the child to suddenly not benefit from what you had provided for so long.

I do not agree with it either, but that's not for me to decide.
If the bio is in her life and she left the home to be with him, every short term until you left the home/relationship), then you have a strong case for NO CS. I would use the letter to show the child has unilaterally severed your relationship and wants nothing to do with you. This will go a long way to get a court to agree that you are not responsible.

I will find you some cases where the child severed the relationship, and no support was ordered.

As for his financial info, I’d get an order for him to produce them. That’s the only way you’ll get them it appears. The man is obviously able, I just don’t understand why the mom is after you when the bio is around and in the child’s life. And earning a good living to boot! Go after a court order to get his financial report and T4’s if the mom seeks support. Maybe just telling her that you have case files of children unilaterally severing a relationship that were not liable for CS, and that seeing as the child is in contact etc with the BIO it would be easy for you to show a court that you are not financially liable, that he is and that you’d easily get an order for his income tax returns and T4’s to support your case.
 
http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1997/1997canlii1741/1997canlii1741.html

This case refers to another, Farden V. Farden, and it states,

Although it is sufficient that she be in the custodial parent's charge, I am of the view that where, as here, a mature child unilaterally terminates a relationship with one of the parents without any apparent reason, that is a factor to be considered by the trial judge in determining whether it would be 'fit and just' to provide maintenance for that child. A father-child relationship is more than a simple economic dependency. The father is burdened with heavy financial responsibilities and the child has very few duties in return. It seems reasonable to demand that a child who expects to receive support entertain some type of relationship with his or her father in the absence of any conduct by the father which might justify the child's neglect of his or her filial duties.

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1995/1995canlii2333/1995canlii2333.html

In this case, the child has for some time effectively severed her relationship with him, a factor to be considered as part of the circumstances relating to the child's continuing status as a child of the marriage.

The judge ruled that the reason for the sever was the fault of the parent, and support ordered.

So if you can show that the child severed with no reasonable, (key word) fault of yours, you could win a case to not pay support.
This doesn't seem fair, but unfortunately this is the boat you are in, alot of us have been there. Keep asking questions and posting, there is alot of experience and help here.

Good Luck
FL
 
http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skca/doc/2005/2005skca131/2005skca131.html

If you think you are in a bad situation get this one.
Man marries a woman with a child from previous relationship, they are together 3.5yrs, divorce, and she goes back and marries father of her child.
She applies for support, and first judge orders zero payable. She appeals and the second judge rules that the first judge made a mistake and orders maintenance.

held that once someone “has made at least a permanent or indefinite unconditional commitment to stand in the place of a parent”[7] the jurisdiction of the courts to grant relief under the Divorce Act is triggered and is not lost by the parent withdrawing from the relationship. The rationale underlying Theriault is what is in the best interest of the child.


The judge added,

aim to ensure that a divorce will affect the children as little as possible. Spouses are entitled to divorce each other, but not the children who were part of the marriage. The interpretation that will best serve children is one that recognizes that when people act as parents toward them, the children can count on that relationship continuing and that these persons will continue to act as parents toward them.

So not only is the mother now re-married to the bio-father, she is also receiving support for the child they created together from a man she knew for less then 4 years, talk about a twisted law!
 
Actually the law does make sense if we were in 17th century.

What happens if she gets an interim CS order? Doesn't that become a new status-quo which in other words creates a solid prejudice against him when and if the case goes to trial?
 
WOW Guys Thks so much for this, Im going to be hanging out on my days off at the local court house and get myself educated W this whole area.

So how do I get a court order towards the Bio dad, do I go where My EX went to get my Papers?? All I know is he Name non address nothing not even DOB

Dave

Thank U again
 
Dave,

check out this website www.fathers-resources.com. They also have weekly meetings in Hamilton (I believe on Tuesdays) and online meetings on Sunday nights.

I tried to save few hundred bucks before by doing stuff without lawyers for which I will regret for rest of my life. Get a lawyer and do it right away. Your case is not that complicated. You might get some lawyer who will charge you fixed amount of fee for the whole case - you just have to shop around.
 
If I where to quit my job and find one that pays me MIN wage would this help me lol Just cant C me paying 600 a month Please try and UNDERSTAND

Dave
 
If you intentionally take on a position that is below your means and if she can show that you have the ability to earn more it is possible for her to get the courts to input an income on you. IE they would use your last three years income coupled with your educational abilities and determine what you are capable of earning and then set CS accordingly.

Like I said FL is NOT fair to the male in a separation.
My opinion is that the laws are hugely swayed for the female advantage.
 
Ok dumb Question, but if have proof in emails & other stuff ... that the child wanted to end our marrige , will the judge look at that ? And Yes I cant afford to quit my job but when U r in this sitution you start to think of how to become evil...... or think of evil thoughts

The child left the home due to her reasons and if I can prove that was why we seperated I hope the courts can look at me not as a evil step parent and understand the issues of the home

Dave
 
If you have several email that would clearly show that the child wants nothing to do with you and had every intention of interfering with your relationship to the extent that it ultimately resulted in the dissolution of the relationship, then you indeed have a strong case. With this info should your ex seek CS, you could counter with your emails and letters showing the child's position, that is, her desire to destroy the relationship, and desire to not have you in her parent’s life much less the child’s.

My position would be to show by documentation the child's position, and attempts to circumvent the relationship.
Have you sought legal advise on this? Has a lawyer seen the email content?
I would think just getting an opinion letter with direction on filing documentation, and court processes, would be all you need to represent yourself should the ex take you to court for CS.

It’s not difficult to file supporting documentation, especially if that documentation screams the position of the apposing party, to show that you should not be held accountable for support of a child that wants nothing to do with you, and has lended to the demise of your relationship.
 
Ok I'm starting feel like I will not have a case her, This one lawyer just makes it sound like I won't win!!! right from our first Phone call says that I acted like the father and the judge will only look out for the child.

This child left our home did not like the rules, how can this be put against me when she made the choice to leave.

Should I really consider fighting this, spend all this $$$ on lawyers and still end up paying CS if not more than what we agreed on our speration Agreement of 350. I only stopped paying this cuz I found out the child dropped out of school and left the mothers HOME. Thats why I never paid and also want this Bio dad to get involed and pay his share of this SINCE HE MADE THE CHILD

Getting worried and stress will I lose my house?

Dave
 
Hold it here, that is important info; if she dropped out that too further helps your case.
When a child drops out of school then you can seek to have her claimed to no longer be a child of the marriage. IF she is not in school what is she doing?

She must stay in school to qualify for CS even when he goes off to college, she must maintain a certain level of studies.

You need to speak to a different lawyer.
I personally feel that you have a "VERY" strong case to win no support.

The many letters and email clearly showing her intent to destroy/circumvent the relationship.
Her moving out and threatening that she will not move back further demonstrates this as is proven when she stayed away until and you split.
Then she quits school.
 
Please clarify the issues, how old is she now?
Where is she living?
What/how is she supporting herself?

I feel you have a very strong case to prove that she in no longer a child of the marriage. She is no longer in the charge of her parents, and is not in school.


A child of the marriage is defined in the Divorce Act:

“child of the marriage” means a child of two spouses or former spouses who, at the material time,
(a) is under the age of majority and who has not withdrawn from their charge, or
(b) is the age of majority or over and under their charge but unable, by reason of illness, disability or other cause, to withdraw from their charge or to obtain the necessaries of life;

And another point that determines whether a child deserves support is,

whether or not the child has unilaterally terminated a relationship from the parent from whom support is sought.

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2007/2007canlii8917/2007canlii8917.html

This case clearly explains "child of the marriage" and when a relationship is unilatrally terminated, and "in place of a parent"

http://www.canlii.org/en/sk/skqb/doc/1999/1999canlii12759/1999canlii12759.html

This is a very well sited case, Farden V Farden, worth a read since child unilaterally terminated relationship with father and found NOT to be a child of the marriage.

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/1993/1993canlii2570/1993canlii2570.html

http://www.canlii.org/en/bc/bcsc/doc/2005/2005bcsc1697/2005bcsc1697.html


The cases are many that show when a child withdraws from the care of the custodial parent, fails to attend school or attends only part time, or terminates a relatioinship, they tend to not qualify for support.

Hope this eases your worries and clarifies things a bit so that you can better address you specific issues with a lawyer for consideration.
 
FL,

I don't think child's behaviour will be taken into account since all kids in their teenages are rebellious. That actually proves that he is like a real dad to her. Just my own opinion.

Since he has a separation agreement in which he agreed to pay a certain sum, doesn't he need to ask the judge to terminate the agreement because of a material change in circumstances ie child is no longer in school?
 
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