Hi, and thank you all for the input. I had thought already about finding out what a live in housekeeper/cook/barber/clotheswasher, etc., would be. I just actually ran into my ex, and he said that for a Christmas present he would pay for the divorce...I told him I wanted some more money to put away for my retirement, since I was not able to make any of my own savings while being his housewife, that I am in the process of consulting a lawyer. I told him about the matrimonial home issue...he said his net worth has gone down since he met and married me, because of the money he put into renovating the condo, buying two cars, and living expenses. I asked him for 20k more, he offered 10k, but I said I think 20k is fair and do you really want to waste money on lawyers? Looks like this is going to get ugly...What would it mean if we did 'income splitting' on our taxes? Because for the last few years I did some part time work for extra spending money, but as I said his accountant did our taxes and the paperwork I have only shows my side of things.
What am I entitled to?
- Thread starter birdie
- Start date
Berner_Faith
New member
The question should be do you really want to waste money on lawyers? Think of it this way, he is offering $10k less, yes, but that is only approx 25 hours of a lawyers time who charges $400. $10k may seem like a lot of money, but you can burn through that in no time. It may be you are entitled to more, but it may also mean you are entitled to less. Don't forget, he gets to subtract what he came into the marriage with and due to the inheritance some of his money is most likely untouchable by you. Why not offer to meet him half way at $15,000? Taking $5000 less is a far better outcome than getting $20,000 but spending $10,000 in lawyers fees. If he offered $10,000, he may go for $15,000, everyone always starts lower than they are willing to settle for.
Obviously consult a lawyer, but just remember that with the high numbers you are quoting, a lawyer may not always have your best interests in mind. I would suggest seeing about meeting with 2-3 different lawyers, most will offer a free consultation, this will give you an idea if what you are asking for is reasonable or if one lawyer is blowing smoke.
Just wanted to add, keep in mind you already received $20,000 at the time of separation, which will come into play for equalization. Just because he is worth a lot doesn't mean the equalization will be worth the $40,000 you are asking (the $20k you received plus the $20k you are asking for)
Depending how much the house increased in value, did his stocks make money or did he lose some? Both his increases and losses will come into play when figuring out equalization.
Best of luck!!
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I don't understand the suggestion of asking to be paid amount equivalent to salary of live-in housekeeper for each year of marriage.... since it is very likely that she was already compensated during the marriage (she had all meals, entertainment, clothing, vacation, transportation etc etc etc paid for).
So it is only a matter of equalizing the family property (which will mean somehow forcing financial disclosure).
So it is only a matter of equalizing the family property (which will mean somehow forcing financial disclosure).
I also want to put it out there that I don't want to take my ex to the cleaners...but I have MS, I married him because I loved him but yes, ALSO because I knew I would be well taken care of in case the MS got bad. (Thankfully it still hasn't and hopefully it won't.) I just feel completely disappointed by this experience of marriage because of his total lack of effort of being the person he made me think I was marrying. I don't plan on marrying again...I lost my last years of child bearing with him...I just want a bit of money in compensation for some financial security.
Berner_Faith
New member
Unfortunately that's not the way it works. You are attaching your emotions (disappointment) to financial compensation. He doesn't have to pay you because he disappointed you, he only has to pay you if he legally has too and the only way you will know that is if you receive financial disclosure. You need to try your hardest to take the emotions out of it, because it will get you no where.
I have a friend with MS and it can get really bad so I understand your concern, however you have no leg to stand on legally if the only reason you feel he should pay you more is because he disappointed you.
Yes, I can hear what you are saying, Berner. I do believe in Karma though, and whatever happens happens, and I trust the Universe to give or not give. I sent an email to the ex hoping to avoid a court fight, saying let's go half way at $15k and I will pay for the divorce. To be honest though, I will spend the bit of savings I have with a lawyer if he says no...somehow I would be satisfied if he wasted the money on a lawyer even if I don't get anything.
arabian
New member
birdie - best thing for you to do is get some legal advice. It seems you have many issues (your declining health to just name one) to consider. Of course your ex is going to tell you the money dwindled. They all tell you that but it's really interesting how that "dwindling" money will double or triple once the divorce papers are signed.
Important thing for you, and I'm sure your lawyer will agree, is that you get full financial disclosure.
I don't think you should be making any more offers without knowing all the financial information from your marriage - it is your right to know this.
There will be plenty of time down the road to make and consider offers to settle.
Important thing for you, and I'm sure your lawyer will agree, is that you get full financial disclosure.
I don't think you should be making any more offers without knowing all the financial information from your marriage - it is your right to know this.
There will be plenty of time down the road to make and consider offers to settle.
standing on the sidelines
New member
if money is such an issue to you that you want the extra 20k for retirement then this statement conflicts with what you want. He may pay a lawyer money but then you will also. How can you be satisfied wasting money just to try and get even?? You would be in worse shape then you think you are in now. Heck you lose and you may even be responsible for his lawyers costs on top of your own.
standing on the sidelines
New member
if you took it to court and lost your case a judge can award him costs for you being unreasonable. Not saying you are being unreasonable but the judge will have all the facts and figures in front of him, this forum doesn't.
arabian
New member
Birdie - you are a long, long way from going to court and even if you did go there it might just be for a motion for him to give you full financial disclosure. Nobody's going to be penalized for requesting information for you to make a fully-informed decision.
Again, get legal advice.
Again, get legal advice.
arabian
New member
As you are not up-to-speed on the ins and outs of his business you can't begin to know what specific financial information to request. Your lawyer would be wise to make sure that the request for full financial disclosure is very specific or the whole thing can drag out for ages going back and forth to court. You can post on here anytime should you need further information. A good start would be for your lawyer to ask for audited financial statements from his accountant.
When you interview the lawyer it is a good idea to ask what sort of experience they have with this sort of thing. I would recommend looking for a lawyer who has experience dealing with "self-employed" or "small business owners" as I believe you mentioned in an earlier post that your ex was not an employee of a company, rather someone who made money investing his own money.
When you interview the lawyer it is a good idea to ask what sort of experience they have with this sort of thing. I would recommend looking for a lawyer who has experience dealing with "self-employed" or "small business owners" as I believe you mentioned in an earlier post that your ex was not an employee of a company, rather someone who made money investing his own money.
standing on the sidelines
New member
divorce is learning to pick your battles. Spending 20k to get 10k is more an emotional battle then a sound financial decision.
You did work part time for extra spending money so you are capable of working still.
I know MS is a bad disease, my Aunt had it and was misdiagnosed for years (doctors thought is was depression and one even told her it was all in her head this was about 35 year ago) by the time she was diagnosed properly the disease had a firm grip on her and no treatments were able to help her quality of life.
OMG.... you have MS.....
Ok the way I see it you are entitled to significant spousal support.
If you are asking for 20k and he isn't willing to give it to you to get the divorce done he is an idiot.
A guy sitting on a million dollars is going to lose more than 20k in a divorce no matter what.
Just because you are poor he will pay you.... Bracklow v. Bracklow - SCC Cases (Lexum)
Tell him to come here, I will tell him to pay you the 20k, if he is really worth more than 1,000,000$ it is insignificant.....
Ok the way I see it you are entitled to significant spousal support.
If you are asking for 20k and he isn't willing to give it to you to get the divorce done he is an idiot.
A guy sitting on a million dollars is going to lose more than 20k in a divorce no matter what.
Just because you are poor he will pay you.... Bracklow v. Bracklow - SCC Cases (Lexum)
Tell him to come here, I will tell him to pay you the 20k, if he is really worth more than 1,000,000$ it is insignificant.....
I don't think you get how it works. This isn't the real world -this is family court world where by you staying home for whatever number of years you have have missed out on "peak earning years" and accumulation of retirement funds etc......
By law you are ENTITLED to live like you did before for a certain amount of time.
How much you earn?
How much will you have when you retire?
I think you could probably get easily a 100k from him easily depending on what his annual income is? You qualify probably for a clean break payment arrangement.
You have to assume you are entitled for Spousal Support and then do the calculations.
arabian
New member
Totally up to the poster, however, she should most definitely request full financial disclosure. Her 5.5 yrs of servitude and penny-pinching is, in my opinion, worth more than a lousy 20k (works out to 3,600.00/year not 36K/year).
I doubt a judge would grant her divorce, waiving all rights to SS, anyhow unless she states she had full financial disclosure and ILA. This is for her own protection, which is a good thing. She needs to fully understand what she is walking away from is all. Good for her that she can support herself. She does say she wants money for a down-payment for a condo. Unless she goes the equalization route then the money for the down-payment would be fully taxable to her as spousal support. She needs someone to ADVISE her properly on this.
Another thought - if she just wants some crumbs (20k) then by all means take it. She can then, 5 years down the road reopen the whole matter and simply state she didn't know what she was doing as she had no Independent Legal Advice (ILA). There are many cases on CanLii where claims were made when wife suffered ill health and 10 years later claimed for, and received, indefinite SS. Her ex is an idiot if he doesn't realize this IMO.
I doubt a judge would grant her divorce, waiving all rights to SS, anyhow unless she states she had full financial disclosure and ILA. This is for her own protection, which is a good thing. She needs to fully understand what she is walking away from is all. Good for her that she can support herself. She does say she wants money for a down-payment for a condo. Unless she goes the equalization route then the money for the down-payment would be fully taxable to her as spousal support. She needs someone to ADVISE her properly on this.
Another thought - if she just wants some crumbs (20k) then by all means take it. She can then, 5 years down the road reopen the whole matter and simply state she didn't know what she was doing as she had no Independent Legal Advice (ILA). There are many cases on CanLii where claims were made when wife suffered ill health and 10 years later claimed for, and received, indefinite SS. Her ex is an idiot if he doesn't realize this IMO.
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1 - she has no lawyer
2 - the thread title is "What am I entitled to?"
3 - she doesn't have to take the spousal support I am just letting her know if what she is presenting as the truth she could be lining her pockets. I don't agree with the system but it what it is.
Also, to be honest if the guy is really a net millionaire and he wants to not give her 20k, that is disreputable especially if she didn't do anything dishonest (cheat etc....) - Divorce is no-fault but I'm not
