Voice of the Child Report

Tayken said:
In a matter where custody and access that is supposedly is settled FINAL you will require a "material changer in circumstance" to change access. Even if it is a phone call. Especially if the other party won't agree to the change.

FINAL orders are meant to be FINAL.
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Well, I guess someone's ego got bruised. The FINAL order states the following:

6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.

The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls. Which means, then I can expect to deal with it through no longer existent parenting coordinator/arbitrator, CAS or in court. He's been warned by everyone to avoid bringing my son into the conflict, but beyond that there's nothing else to be done.

I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum. Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son. I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us. If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.

The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.

Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.
 
Voice of the Child Report

Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.
 
rockscan said:
Has there been any thought to having dad and son attend counseling so that son can speak to dad about his issues and have a neutral party there to provide advice and support?

I ask because I can imagine how difficult it is for your son and your ex is probably convinced you are stopping kid from communicating. Kids in the middle of their parents legal issues and exposed to conflict struggle with having some control over their actions while also trying to keep both parents happy (their perception, not what parents are doing). I say this from my own experience with two high conflict parents who felt fighting each other was more important.

If your ex refuses to adhere to an existing order, getting another order really wont do much but cause more anger. Having a neutral party sit down with both of them to discuss their feelings and how to resolve the issue may be a better solution.

Just my two cents...I find fighting for more and more orders is useless and just creates more conflict driving kids to stop speaking to a parent for years.
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That was the reason we included a parenting coordinator/arbitrator in the order. BUT, Dad was way too difficult for the person handle and ended the term and wished not to renew.

OCL in its report concluded exactly what you stated above, that despite what evidence is presented to Dad at the end of investigation of an allegation, he is unlikely to accept and will continue to keep litigating or bringing the allegation to a new source to investigate.

He even forced my son to make a video alleging I don't providing him access thereby preventing my son to call. The parenting coordinator/arbitrator, who was provided the video, correctly concluded my son had been forced, and like any child in that situation, would choose to please the parent in front of him to avoid conflict. Dad did not take it well. He brought the issue up on an affidavit when we argued a motion for security for costs. Judge did not address it as we have a parenting coordinator. So the next step was CAS, who closed the file two weeks later.

Sadly, at this point, Dad is convinced when my son is 12, he can make up his mind about where he wants to live, the "material change in circumstance", and keeps his harassment and yelling. No child should have to go through that.

As it's noted, during VoC process, the child must be interviewed at his dad once. I am sure Dad will consent to VoC, BUT it may be extremely stressful and traumatizing for my son to have it done at his dad. I wonder if the interviews can be done in a neutral setting? Like his school?
 
do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
 
denbigh said:
I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
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I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.
 
WorkingMom2007 said:
6) When ****** is in the care of his mother, he shall be permitted and encouraged to communicate with his father, via Skype, as often as he wishes. ******** will not be given a cellular telephone of his own.
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Then why are you even bothering to get a "voice of the child" report if this is the exact wording? Why even go to court unless you are the respondent in the matter.

Access telephone calls work this way:

Child of 3 years typically can last 3 minutes on the phone.
Child of 5 years typically can last 5 minutes on the phone.
(See the pattern?)

Furthermore, most orders reasonably put ONE CALL in a 5-day stretch where a child is not residing with the parent. A judge will not order every day. At most, it could be adjusted to 1 calls in every 5 days of non-contact... That is if the child is <14 years of age.

>14 years of age... you will get exactly what you already have ordered.


WorkingMom2007 said:
The fact that his dad interprets this to mean he, the father, gets a call everyday, and harasses and yells at him, is why an 11 year old ducking calls.
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The rule is 1 call in 5 days when the child does not reside (have access) with the other parent. That is common knowledge. At the minimum, you should be making the child call 1 time every 5 days with no access. You should be enforcing this minimum rule with an 11 year old child and have a log book of the resulting punishment for not doing so. A court will expect you to facilitate calls at this minimum rate.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
WorkingMom2007 said:
I don't listen to you, and yes disregard you, because you're the most negative, harsh, "why even bother" attitude person in this forum.
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You clearly haven't been on this forum very long then.

WorkingMom2007 said:
Despite your assessment of me, which has in the past been wrong, I listened to my legal counsel, my ownself, my support system, and have done well for my son.
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Yet you post on public forums with an assumed name asking for "help" from (as you state below) mentally ill individuals. :P

WorkingMom2007 said:
I am guessing that you're here because you're also a parent, and found this forum, much like the rest of us.
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Guess all you want. The only reason I am here is to assist others... Like WorkingDad, LovingFather32, and a number of all successful contributors to this forum.

WorkingMom2007 said:
If you're spending this much time here, then you can't be spending too much time with yours.
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This is where assumptions are incorrectly made. I contribute to this forum as a social experiment and to train a software system I have developed.

WorkingMom2007 said:
The fact that you need to single out, and force your opinion on someone who clearly doesn't want your opinion, speaks to a psychosis I'm under qualified to address.
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Actually, I respond to all threads and on this forum you don't get to choose who responds. Feel free to put me on "ignore" but, I will continue to respond with my opinions and support them with facts. This is for the benefit of the much larger audience of yourself. The hundreds of thousands of people who read this forum. To ensure they don't do things like you are doing and waste court resources and personal finances on nonsense.

WorkingMom2007 said:
Again, thanks for your advise. Not what I was looking for.
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Like most high conflict people you are looking for reinforcement of the answer you already have formed. You are not actually looking for advice or help. You are simply seeking negative advocates to support your bad ideas.

https://www.highconflictinstitute.c...rofessionals-become-negative-advocates-or-not

Good Luck!
Tayken

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
denbigh said:
do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
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You are correct. They need to be court ordered or agreed upon by both parties. If they are one sided they are useless.
 
momof2teenboys said:
I'd be interested to know the answer to this. As worthless as many seem to think the various assessments are, there seem to be a few social workers out there offering to provide them privately - and not just when court ordered. I ran into this in the past few years - one "assessor" offered to provide a report to show alienation - being paid by one parent without the other parent's knowledge. (not my case thank goodness) Just looks like another way to make money off of a broken process.
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You are 100% correct. These are called "backdoor assessments".

See this article for more details: http://www.yoursocialworker.com/s-articles/Backdoor_Assessments.htm
 
denbigh said:
do you want to get the voices of the children report to show dad to get him to back off, or are you waiting to see if dad will bring the matter to court, and then have the report for that process? I thought they were court ordered, but I could be wrong about that.
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Essentially, what we're attempting to do is stop Dad from bullying his son to meet his own end goals. Picture this: My ex is 6'3" about 230 pounds. My son is 5'2" and weighs about 120 pds. Dad has a tendency to go red in the face, when he gets angry, which only makes him more intimidating. Any decision that I make Dad doesn't like, he's screaming full throated at his son. If you were this 11 year old, would you want to willingly call him anytime you thought Dad maybe angry?

So my son avoids calling his father, which results in Dad thinking I've harmed my son, and he's trying to protect me by not calling. Not the case, as multiple investigations by CAS can attest to.

We want the VoC to have my son state what his expectations are with regards to calling and communication. I thought the language in the order gave my son the reprieve, but not the case.

So yes, we're hoping this will show how my son feels about Dad's edict of communication, and hope he can transition to managing his expectations without any future confrontations. Because if he keeps this up, there'll be a whole different set of issues we'll have to deal with.
 
"Voice of the Child" for 11-year-old who doesn't want to phone his father???

Sure... you go to court and let the court instruct you how to parent your child. You may not like what the judge orders in the end though.

I truly hope that you are personally paying for this nonsense as opposed to taxpayers picking up the tab?

Who is the "we" that you are referring to?
 
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arabian said:
"Voice of the Child" for 11-year-old who doesn't want to phone his father???

Sure... you go to court and let the court instruct you how to parent your child. You may not like what the judge orders in the end though.

I truly hope that you are personally paying for this nonsense as opposed to taxpayers picking up the tab?

Who is the "we" that you are referring to?
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Not worth responding to. Please seek professional help for your anger issues, and stop taking it out on moms on this forum for whatever you went through personally.
 
I am, in fact, a mother.

You have a final order.

Ask your lawyer about "res judicata" and save yourself some money (if you are paying for this nonsense).

If you can't/won't adhere to the final order then your ex would have a valid reason for seeking custody.

I'm not "taking it out on moms on this forum..." - you are on a public forum and asked for opinions. YOU shouldn't take this personally.

Your son has the unenviable position of having two parents who can't get along, even after separation. Dragging an 11-year-old into your issues with your ex is simply wrong IMO.
 
I can see why a daily call is a bit much, even when children get along with their parents. I dont talk to my kids every single day when at other parents house, or if visiting grandma. Kids dont really like to talk on the phone that much, even with their friends, they text instead. I also dont text kids every day either. I am also a bit confused about why you need to get a report when you have an order already. Is the ex taking you back to a trial or case conference because son isnt calling every day? Or are you premptively trying to get this report and then you are taking it to court? I am not sure I understand the legal ramifications of your child not calling everyday.
 
denbigh said:
I can see why a daily call is a bit much, even when children get along with their parents. I dont talk to my kids every single day when at other parents house, or if visiting grandma. Kids dont really like to talk on the phone that much, even with their friends, they text instead. I also dont text kids every day either. I am also a bit confused about why you need to get a report when you have an order already. Is the ex taking you back to a trial or case conference because son isnt calling every day? Or are you premptively trying to get this report and then you are taking it to court? I am not sure I understand the legal ramifications of your child not calling everyday.
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Thanks for asking as opposed to attacking or with the judgemental attitude. We do have a FINAL order, and I posted the exact language of it in this thread above. We arrived at it AFTER OCL had completed its review and provided recommendation.

The issue is DAD cant accept that the COURTS decided he can't have custody (sole or joint) for some very good reasons. He will exploit any issue to try to open the matter of custody by making any and all allegations against me. At the moment, it's the communication bit.

The only thing we're headed to trial is financial matters, as after 11 years, he has yet to provide proper financial disclosure, and is in contempt of court on various orders to produce said financials. His plea is about to struck to allow me to move forward to figuring out an appropriate child support. It was previously imputed at a presumed incomen amount till he produced proper details.

In the meantime, my son has to deal with his Dad dragging him into making videos alleging abuse, dragging him to Police station to make complaints, calling CAS to allege abuse.

This is as instructed by my LAWYER. I am simply trying to find out if anyone has gone through it, and what the experience was like.

And if you have nothing productive to add, please save your judgement, attitude and comments.
 
arabian said:
I am, in fact, a mother.

You have a final order.

Ask your lawyer about "res judicata" and save yourself some money (if you are paying for this nonsense).

If you can't/won't adhere to the final order then your ex would have a valid reason for seeking custody.

I'm not "taking it out on moms on this forum..." - you are on a public forum and asked for opinions. YOU shouldn't take this personally.

Your son has the unenviable position of having two parents who can't get along, even after separation. Dragging an 11-year-old into your issues with your ex is simply wrong IMO.
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Maybe you oughta read my original post. I am not asking for OPTIONS. I am asking for those who have gone through this to share their EXPERIENCE.
 
In the meantime, my son has to deal with his Dad dragging him into making videos alleging abuse, dragging him to Police station to make complaints, calling CAS to allege abuse.
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What a nightmare!

I hope the judgement attitude part wasnt aimed at me, I dont think it was judgemental, I truely dont know what the legal ramifications are of the child not calling.

I dont have a situation as severe as ex making child make videos and repeated calls to CAS alledging abuse, but I do have a teen who would rather not engage with ex. Phone calls havent been a problem as ex tends to not phone, but texts were a problem for awhile and ex took teens phone as child would not respond to each and every text. Problem not an issue now as no phone, but child wants a new phone, problem likely to resurface if gets one.

So your ex would have to go to court again to say that child was not contacting him or that you were preventing child from contacting ex, and then a voices report could be ordered?
If you had one done without a court proceeding being involved, would the ex respect what it says anyways?

What a tough situation for your child.
 
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