My ex husband and I have be going through the courts to battle child arrears he owes me. He originally owed over 14,000 but he applied for a variance retroactiviley 3 years d/t a lower income. The lawyer has calculated the arrears at just over 7000.00 based on his lower income but he still refuses to pay. he only wants to pay 1/2 this. I'm not trying to be greedy but for the time he wasn't paying any child support i accummulated some debt to support the kids. He got what he was asking for (he just wanted to pay according to his lower income but now that he's had it retroactiviley reduced he still doesn't want to pay this amount. Just to clarify...he took me to court saying I owed him 17,000 in child support overpayment so obviously I had no choice but to get a lawyer and fight this. I think he thought the sum was going to be a lot less and now he refuses to sign the papers. My lawyers are now asking for another 2,500 retainer. He's being stubborn and ending up spending money unnecessarily. Help...I don't know what to do . The more i go into debt for this the more money I need....the next stage is like an audit for him to prove the lower income . He doesn't want this stage to happen b/c he makes more money than he's claiming. I was willing to accept the lower income and lower child support b/c my wish isn't to break him financially . I just want the help with the kids : (
Variance in child support
- Thread starter cat40
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NBDad
New member
Scrape together a retainer...then ask for costs...unfortunately that's probably your only real option other than either caving to his demands, OR to mediate with him.
It won't go well for him in court, not paying support is looked on very poorly. If he had a lower income, he should have made a variance THEN, not after the fact.
You need to have a clause written into your agreement that states you both exchange income tax assessments each year, and that the CS payment schedule is July to June. (Same as CCTB). (So basically you recalculate the CS automatically for the July payments based on the previous years income tax returns)
That should clear up a LOT of the confusion surrounding income/etc. Propose it to him in such a way that he can understand this protects him as well...if he makes LESS money in a given year, then he pays LESS support the following year.
It won't go well for him in court, not paying support is looked on very poorly. If he had a lower income, he should have made a variance THEN, not after the fact.
You need to have a clause written into your agreement that states you both exchange income tax assessments each year, and that the CS payment schedule is July to June. (Same as CCTB). (So basically you recalculate the CS automatically for the July payments based on the previous years income tax returns)
That should clear up a LOT of the confusion surrounding income/etc. Propose it to him in such a way that he can understand this protects him as well...if he makes LESS money in a given year, then he pays LESS support the following year.
NBDad
New member
Because it wasn't actually "down" most likely. 
Get it written in, he's obviously attempting to "claim" it was down, so he should have no issues with the clause that it's automatically adjusted every year.
It'll save him going back to court every time his income changes. It's also a pretty standard clause, and protects both of you and the children as well.
Get it written in, he's obviously attempting to "claim" it was down, so he should have no issues with the clause that it's automatically adjusted every year. It'll save him going back to court every time his income changes. It's also a pretty standard clause, and protects both of you and the children as well.
The question you should be asking yourself is why didn't your lawyer suggest this???
The quick answer is it takes them out of the cash loop.
Keep in mind your lawyer is not your friend and only has time to sell.
Awarded cost rarely cover the real costs.
When he filed for a variance he needed to file his tax returns for the years he wants varied, which means you should have got them or your lawyer does have them. He had to serve and be able to prove he served them on you before he would even get in front of a judge. That paper work would have to be included with the motion, which a court clerk would go through when he tried to file and at that point he wouldn't be allowed to file.
There's no way a judge is going to vary the order without tax returns and then if he thinks your ex is playing games he still will not vary them.
A variance is like the tooth fairy, nice to believe in but she's not real for a ncp.
Variances in the real world work like this, if you can afford the lawyer or the time to get a variance you don't need one.
A simple V in Ontario will cost you from $5K and up and is not a sure thing.
So the poultry relief that is usually given out say $50 less a month takes a life time to recoup the legal bill to get one.
He's not the only one playing games with you.
With out full backed up finical disclosure his motion to vary would never have got off the ground. Your lawyer will not tell you this bc your their cash cow. They will also not tell the total cost they just want you to keep paying in.
You need to turn him over to the FRO and kick your so called lawyer to the curb. You can call the FRO and they will walk you through the steps.
Tell you ex in a letter to get the inforcement information about the FRO off the net or download it for him.
Tell him him has 48 hrs to produce his taxes returns to you or you feed him to the FRO.
He and the lawyers are palying you, call FRO and talk to them or read their web site. You don't need a lawyer you need a to make a phone call.
The only way we are going to clean up the family law mess is to stop blindly feeding lawyers that feed our ignorance. Once the money dries up they are going to have to fix the system.
You have the kids, you have a court order, you basically own him.
The tail doesn't wag the dog, escialy when it's be cropped very short and on the back end of a 160 lbs dog.
FRO Facts | Ministry of Community and Social Services
LivingTheDream
New member
She 'owns him'? While I absolutely agree that she needs to do what she can to get her deserved money, statements like that don't help anyone with anything.
By law, the payor must provide their income tax return and assessment within 30 days of a written request. (Ontario).
The only point to having it written into a separation agreement is that it saves you having to make the request every year. Odds are you are still going to have to remind them though.
If you don't have it written in, and send a request, and they ignore it, you have to go to court.
If you have it written in, they can still ignore it, and you still have to go to court.
If they are being obstinate, or they are ridiculously unorganized, having it written into the separation agreement isn't going to change that.
The only point to having it written into a separation agreement is that it saves you having to make the request every year. Odds are you are still going to have to remind them though.
If you don't have it written in, and send a request, and they ignore it, you have to go to court.
If you have it written in, they can still ignore it, and you still have to go to court.
If they are being obstinate, or they are ridiculously unorganized, having it written into the separation agreement isn't going to change that.
billiechic
New member
So you have an order setting out what his payments are and he isn't paying? WHY NOT? Why have you waited to file with FRO? Your kids need that money! He is not being a good father if he is not supporting his kids. And you will not break him financially if he had been paying all long. It was HIS CHOICE to build up arrears, not yours.
I guess your right why state the obvious.
It's common knowledge to any cp.
The sooner we stop sugar coating things the sooner we can move forward.
Fro
Fro
I am registered with FRO. This is what he was trying to fight and instead theyve put a writ of seizure of sale on his house and reported him to the credit bureau. They told me the next step in to suspend his licence but I've been waiting about 6 months since their last action and nothing has happened. According to the FRO he owes me over 18,000 and I'm will to take 7,000 but now that my lawyer is asking for another 2500 retainer I need to ask for more costs to be added on to that original 7000 : ( This is beyond frustrating and any amicable relationship with him has completely gone out the window.
Fro
I am registered with FRO. This is what he was trying to fight and instead theyve put a writ of seizure of sale on his house and reported him to the credit bureau. They told me the next step in to suspend his licence but I've been waiting about 6 months since their last action and nothing has happened. According to the FRO he owes me over 18,000 and I'm will to take 7,000 but now that my lawyer is asking for another 2500 retainer I need to ask for more costs to be added on to that original 7000 : ( This is beyond frustrating and any amicable relationship with him has completely gone out the window.
NBDad
New member
Let the FRO deal with it then...you don't need to negotiate anything on that front...there's a support order in place, it's being dealt with. If he wants to lower his payments, he needs a new court order.
Deal with that request, stay out of negotiating on the arrears. Don't accept less than you are entitled to. You need to separate arrears from the other issues.
Deal with that request, stay out of negotiating on the arrears. Don't accept less than you are entitled to. You need to separate arrears from the other issues.
They maybe slow, but they will get the job done.
I wouldn't bother settling for less, your ex will see it as a sign of weakness and delay further.
Either way he will be broke, via payments to you or to lawyers so amount doesn't matter.
By reducing the amount more just goes to the lawyers and not you and the kids.
He can't go Bankrupt on you but he can on taxes, debts and legal fees.
Save your legal fee's a court can't do more than the FRO and they would only refer the enforcement to the FRO anyway.
Keep pressure on the FRO ask to talk to your case manger's boss, move up the chain of command.
Complain to your member of parliament.
Your ex is just walking wounded, he'll fall over soon.
Either way they will sell his home and possessions and you will get your money in time.
A lawyer at this point is a waste of money, go after the FRO....
Unless you feel like feeding a lawyer, but it will get you no where, you are as far as you can go...
The smart thing to do is to push without him knowing bc if he gets wind of the reality and the only options for him are.
Party and spend every cent like there's no tomorrow.
Sleep with friends and family members.
Show every one your personal movies and or pictures.
Or have posters made up and staple them to every telephone pole around your home and work. ( If this happens tell him to use your good side only and not go with cheap staples bc they leave rust stains)
Tell him posters are one thing but full scale paintings on roads will land him in jail.
Selling anything not nailed down to fuel the party.
Burning down or trashing the house and possessions.
Then no matter what direction he takes he will still probobly go bankrupt which is a good thing for you bc it free's up cash flow for payments to you.
No matter what path he takes, he will end up in the same place.
Now if he becomes homeless and unemployed or decides to leave this world, you'll get the cash from the sale of the house ect but that's about it.
The trick is too make him think he can recover and he might, if he doesn't buy in your done for future payments.
So it's tricky, you have to sell him on life while, the system sucks it out of him.
Be nice but business like, and wish him good luck as he moves on.
You never know how he will react to all this stress of loosing his family and now his home, possessions and who knows maybe his job.
So I wouldn't bait him.
Smile and nod play stupid deflect be non confrontational, avoid talking to him.
It`s a toss up whether you encourage the partying or not.
The more he spends the less he has to spend on lawyers, so the less legal grief he can give you.
Now if he had a clue as too how the system works, he never would have allowed you to have the kids or rested til he had them. He should have either gone the all out party route or gone for the kids. Arguing about payments will get him no where and if he gets any relief, the legal bill for the relief will be many times more.
There you have it in a nut shell, family law.
You won, ok so you have to wait while he`s stuff and mounted, but you won.
Judges do not like to change the status quo, you'd have to really screw up now to lose the kids.
Down the road he might pull the disneyland dad card and once he convinces the kids to live with him, you'll be back at it.
Who wins, those that live off of the prevails of your misery.
I wouldn't bother settling for less, your ex will see it as a sign of weakness and delay further.
Either way he will be broke, via payments to you or to lawyers so amount doesn't matter.
By reducing the amount more just goes to the lawyers and not you and the kids.
He can't go Bankrupt on you but he can on taxes, debts and legal fees.
Save your legal fee's a court can't do more than the FRO and they would only refer the enforcement to the FRO anyway.
Keep pressure on the FRO ask to talk to your case manger's boss, move up the chain of command.
Complain to your member of parliament.
Your ex is just walking wounded, he'll fall over soon.
Either way they will sell his home and possessions and you will get your money in time.
A lawyer at this point is a waste of money, go after the FRO....
Unless you feel like feeding a lawyer, but it will get you no where, you are as far as you can go...
The smart thing to do is to push without him knowing bc if he gets wind of the reality and the only options for him are.
Party and spend every cent like there's no tomorrow.
Sleep with friends and family members.
Show every one your personal movies and or pictures.
Or have posters made up and staple them to every telephone pole around your home and work. ( If this happens tell him to use your good side only and not go with cheap staples bc they leave rust stains)
Tell him posters are one thing but full scale paintings on roads will land him in jail.
Selling anything not nailed down to fuel the party.
Burning down or trashing the house and possessions.
Then no matter what direction he takes he will still probobly go bankrupt which is a good thing for you bc it free's up cash flow for payments to you.
No matter what path he takes, he will end up in the same place.
Now if he becomes homeless and unemployed or decides to leave this world, you'll get the cash from the sale of the house ect but that's about it.
The trick is too make him think he can recover and he might, if he doesn't buy in your done for future payments.
So it's tricky, you have to sell him on life while, the system sucks it out of him.
Be nice but business like, and wish him good luck as he moves on.
You never know how he will react to all this stress of loosing his family and now his home, possessions and who knows maybe his job.
So I wouldn't bait him.
Smile and nod play stupid deflect be non confrontational, avoid talking to him.
It`s a toss up whether you encourage the partying or not.
The more he spends the less he has to spend on lawyers, so the less legal grief he can give you.
Now if he had a clue as too how the system works, he never would have allowed you to have the kids or rested til he had them. He should have either gone the all out party route or gone for the kids. Arguing about payments will get him no where and if he gets any relief, the legal bill for the relief will be many times more.
There you have it in a nut shell, family law.
You won, ok so you have to wait while he`s stuff and mounted, but you won.
Judges do not like to change the status quo, you'd have to really screw up now to lose the kids.
Down the road he might pull the disneyland dad card and once he convinces the kids to live with him, you'll be back at it.
Who wins, those that live off of the prevails of your misery.
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