Transportation

R

roxyroller71

New member
my ex likes to try to amke me jump through the hoops and make sure Im under hardship. We have joint custody with me making final decisons after consultation. all on family wizard.

My ex is obligated to pick up and drop off as well as take my son to his activities on his visation and keeping up with his routine. My ex visits once a month for 4 days.
My ex has final decision making on french education with consultation, with myself being obligated to transport. I prefer someone actually come over and spend the hour, and even transport..but if my ex disagrees and makes me drive across the city for an activity...can I claim gas, car expenses?

another reason:
my ex wanted no family daycare so I had to stop my parents providing transportation/before and after school care. My parents were paid and my ex had stopped 2 yrs prior when my son was in formal care. He just avoided and refused to pay any of these costs.

Now my son has before and after school at the school, daycamps and extra charges for inservice days etc and I gained parking and gas and car expenses, opposed to my saving money by taking the bus.
Vindictive and controlling.

Also I requested his family spend an evening once a month, as well as any 1 other evening through the month. They dont want to help me nor visit with any activity (inc soccer, or swim). They live 5 min away and have refused to coordinate and now they too are on family wizard.

This is in the agreement and they are to pickup....now they are trying to get me to drop off.

How should I handle these extra costs and am I stuck with this under child support?
 
You have joint custody, with you making final decisions after consultation.......

You have your son 26-27 days of the month...yes, you should transport him to his French education. You would prefer someone come to you? Good luck with that.

If you are in such undue hardship, child care costs are covered throughout most jurisdictions in Canada. It is your responsibilty to inquire about these services, not complain about expenses.

Your ex inlaws live 5 minutes away. Yes, according to you, they are trying to alter a written agreement. That is relevant. But when you jump in about such transportation costing and causing you undue hardship, you severly weaken your case. How much gas does it actually cost to transport a child five minutes away, once a month?????

Not once in your post do I get an inkling that your reactions are made in the best interests of the child. Each and every one points to money. That will not garner much empathy on these boards where you have parents crying to have access to their children and will spend every last dime they have to do it.
 
You cannot get any court order to control the actions of a third party, meaning the grandparents, etc. If they are willing to pick up, or not, is nothing to do with the courts. You cannot force them to do anything.

If you have physical custody of the child for most of the month, you are responsible for caring for the child during that time an arranging child care and transportation during that time. This is what you sign up for when you seek custody.

The cost of child care should be split proportionately between you and the other parent. Child care is a section 7 expense.

The cost of transportation during the periods that you have custody is your responsibility, paid for by child support.
 
Thanks for the posts.IAnyone who has some idea insight to transportation costs would be extremely appreciated. Judgements aside as the fact s are 9 yrs and no agreement no payments and walked away w nothing..
Im paying all private school, music horseback riding swim etc. I supply my ex and his family clothing they refuse to return and give away instead.
I'm trying to collect child support and daycare in which he refuses...
LOTS of stuff from benefits and refusing to coordinate ( I have better benefits) to CRA and false info on taxes etc and to court...

I'm trying to keep it simple, proactive in dealing w my situation. There is no agreement in place and shortly expecting something!
Don't pass judgement without getting a handle on the numerous issues. making assumptions doesn't fit every situation.
I was also keeping it simple.
I'm on family wizard and trying to be proactive to what I know my ex will start doing. And court order does reflect third party visitation and family wizard involvement ( I introduced it). It is a protection for me against the demands and crazy. They were given one evening Sunday from 2-7 but haven't bothered. Plus another during the weekday.


And French lessons are available in a variety of formats for children. Group lessons at $15/ hour or credited language teachers available to visit once a week for $25-40/hr as well as language schools of $80 plus
So yes French can happen in any setting and had in paying on my own for 2 yrs and the ex refused and didn't want, then denied knowing. I drove and make sure my sons attends.
But not when someone is just jerking me around...doing errands for him.
I have over 10g emails and texts proving. Plus fraud, stealing and cheating through his work, income tax and u think he doesn't do this with child support?
Also his income of 150 helps him drag me through court...

He is a swindler.
Way I'm a stickler? Because he tried to take money from my family, holds out because he knows I will cover it. I heard accusations of illegal money making (drug trafficking) and potential child abduction. I'm a travel agent and unless I go to court I can't take my kid to Disney!
So it's taken 9 yrs for freedom.


My emotions are gone and I'm cut and dry.
 
roxyroller71 said:
Thanks for the posts.IAnyone who has some idea insight to transportation costs would be extremely appreciated. Judgements aside as the fact s are 9 yrs and no agreement no payments and walked away w nothing..
Im paying all private school, music horseback riding swim etc. I supply my ex and his family clothing they refuse to return and give away instead.
I'm trying to collect child support and daycare in which he refuses...
LOTS of stuff from benefits and refusing to coordinate ( I have better benefits) to CRA and false info on taxes etc and to court...

I'm trying to keep it simple, proactive in dealing w my situation. There is no agreement in place and shortly expecting something!
Don't pass judgement without getting a handle on the numerous issues. making assumptions doesn't fit every situation.
I was also keeping it simple.
I'm on family wizard and trying to be proactive to what I know my ex will start doing. And court order does reflect third party visitation and family wizard involvement ( I introduced it). It is a protection for me against the demands and crazy. They were given one evening Sunday from 2-7 but haven't bothered. Plus another during the weekday.


And French lessons are available in a variety of formats for children. Group lessons at $15/ hour or credited language teachers available to visit once a week for $25-40/hr as well as language schools of $80 plus
So yes French can happen in any setting and had in paying on my own for 2 yrs and the ex refused and didn't want, then denied knowing. I drove and make sure my sons attends.
But not when someone is just jerking me around...doing errands for him.
I have over 10g emails and texts proving. Plus fraud, stealing and cheating through his work, income tax and u think he doesn't do this with child support?
Also his income of 150 helps him drag me through court...

He is a swindler.
Way I'm a stickler? Because he tried to take money from my family, holds out because he knows I will cover it. I heard accusations of illegal money making (drug trafficking) and potential child abduction. I'm a travel agent and unless I go to court I can't take my kid to Disney!
So it's taken 9 yrs for freedom.


My emotions are gone and I'm cut and dry.
Click to expand...
cut out some of this and you may have some more money.
 
Correct.
But it's what my ex wanted and We had joint decision making and I had emails telling me those activities are what he wanted and supported. Until it came time to pay. (Again thanks to family wizard and garnishment)
Times are changing for him and waiting for the fallout and I know this guy and there will be huge fall out. This person is vindictive and purposely does things to make me "pay" on all fronts.
 
You keep asking if you can claim transportation costs for being in the Mother/Taxi driver role.............

Then you make the comment that you have had no payment in nine years, but in a further sentence you state "thanks to family wizard and garnishment".

So, he either does pay some support or he doesn't. I don't know which it is.

Here's the thing: transportation seems to be the SMALLEST issue ( I wouldn't consider it an issue at all). But I will say it again, no judge is going to award you transportation expenses. Your transportation expenses should be covered by child support.

You ask us not to pass judgement. I don't think that any of us have. What we have done is provided you with information based on what you provided to us. You want to be proactive in dealing with your situation? Well then, file a motion for interim child support! Child support can be ordered without an agreement in place.

Private school, music, horseback riding, swimming lessons on a travel agents income? I have clearly chosen the wrong profession. Here's the thing: if you can pay for these expenses, you can damn well pay the gas to take your children to the activities. Your ex isn't swindling you: you are deluding yourself.

To use one of your own lines: be PROACTIVE and get support into place. Quit worrying about the damn transportation and the swindling ex and making him "pay".
 
small issue? u think i brought this into the arena?
jesus i wish i could ignore and forget the whole legal thing and forget about even collecting child support and be done with the mess...
just show up when u want...a nd as long as my son is happy...i dont care.
BUT thast not the way and I dont have the control...and i didnt introduce "transportation"...my ex did...

interm child support was done 8 yrs ago, and he has stalled, avoided and he is out of province, salary hard to pin down if he refuses to supply or stalls or falsifies info.

feb 14th examination (yep V-day) which ended up in four way conference since he doesnt want trial in whcih we have a minutes of settlement, and we are going forward to touch base on exactly the issues im discussing.

trial is set and i have given him a free pass on costs, retro etc and offered to settle and offered joint custody, with my final decision making. (that being said...i ask that he contriubute to decisions and provide the info in a timely manner, ie 30 days)...
again not going into benfits which refuses to coordinate, taxes, income and deductions he fudges and his transportation costs he claims to visit his son (paid by his company and not out of pocket), along with the weekend of gas that he spends on the weekend (claimed in his expense reports as work mileage) ...including food for his son on the weekend...
so if he can submit these ...is there a reason I cant?

i would like to avoid trial, and save myself the legal hassle, money and lets just round off and make it easy!

he has made this a business transacation. my emotions arent into this at all...and like u said its small potatoes....but thats where I am stuck with this guy as he has made it an issue...

we are not discussing my taxidriver roll that was in the best interest of my son but excessive and time consuming errands/demands left for me to do...and his and his families refusal to responsibily return items and are unreasonable. u dont think my son needs his boots or winter coat the next day? (that even sounds insane) and of course im going to pick it up....BUT u need to know that thats what they wanted and planned on, and its a volatile situation and have had to call the police, after being thrown out of my car in these sitautions. (police assistance is being put in as well)
im not talking normal people and it is a business transaction with them. That used to hurt but it is what it is.

child support has been RECENT cheques that end in june...and unless the garnishment and agreement are court ordered...and they need to be court ordered in the next short while (i pray to god) and unless they are there is nothing. (or he stops paying his lawyer and drops out of sight again)

i know that I am on the hook for transportation out of child support BUT within reason correct? NOT when he has made untimely, unreasonable demands, out of scope demands that i follow that do not fit in to daily reasonable LIFE...
im talking about deflecting an unreasonable person and setting some guildelines, via family wizard.
I should clarify that YES I am the soccer mom/ taxidriver/do it all...the problem lies when it doesnt fall on my time. or my family/friends contacted to comply and assist, by my ex as his own family refuse to do it for him without payment!
he calls them to do it and im stuck with the costs.

u think they should also do it for free? his family doesnt and refuse free services on his own visitation...(nothing to do with me!)

or that i dont have to pay for parking,gas, time when I am unable to go along with his demands? or pay babysitting or his no-shows or crazy demands made on purpose to inconveneince or cost me money? or maybe while I am at work or in school or registered in an non refusndable event for me on my child free time? or school bus services to and from school which works and is economical or forcing someone drive everyday, pay parking and incure extar costs on their demand? think about that.
its opposite of many peoples issues.
i dont have any issue with transportation on my time, thankfully they can be limited and not excessive NOW...but when it falls on work/education time and time he has with his son. i think i need to be compensated for this.
how can I be at work and get my son to an activity? or even better on his visit that he hasnt bothered to visit?
Thats a $100 fee from the babysitter for 4 days assistance to accomodate my previosuly child free weekend for his missed visitation,
u think i should lump those bills too?
this is someone who is disruptive and does things on purpose and is monitored now. im not talking a normal guy here either so not sure what u have decided was accepted in the mom roll for others or not.

Being proactive is making sure the foundation is there to be followed to protect me and my son.
i completely get that this is a bad situation, hard to grasp or understand and I GOT HOURS of stories...i can go on and on.
no one needs those details or mess...
im just focusing on the issues at hand...be it small or big...
i would love to lump it, just make it easy and be able to walk away but its hard when the other party wants to focus on the petty and continue their control over another person.
 
Couple of points.

Clearly despite what you've said, you are very emotional about the issues. Thats understandable. But it won't help resolve the issues, or help you if it comes to court.

First principles say that you are responsible for "normal" costs when the child is with you, and he is responsible for "normal" costs when the child is with him. Other than dropping off at a mutually agreed place, and picking up, I don't see why this needs to be so complicated. If his family is making it so, then put your foot down. If the kid doesn't come back with coat and boots, then do the pickup at the place where the coat and boats are, and ask the kid if he/she has them before you leave.

If your ex is taking advantage of you by asking for costs incurred on his time, don't let him. Say no.

Because my ex doesn't drive, I pay 100% of transportation costs - I always go there to pick them up. I also get to spend time with them shopping when they need me to be a taxi. Thats life.
 
I also understand from my lawyer that the topic of transportation is due to his being in beyond the normal federal child support guildelines. So I gather there isnt as much restriction with the "basics" of child support covering such costs as food, shelter, clothing giving leeway.
(He states food is $700 per month and this high from the weekend visitation)
:o
yes its mouth dropping.
overall, costs are the costs.
I just dont know how to consider transportation in this sitaution on any level...so yes I most likely will let my betters deduct whatever they want to deduct and just let me know whatever it is.
 
There is something not quite right about this whole story.......

Perhaps the OP is now with someone else, who is helping funding the extracurricular activities?
 
roxyroller71 said:
I also understand from my lawyer that the topic of transportation is due to his being in beyond the normal federal child support guildelines. So I gather there isnt as much restriction with the "basics" of child support covering such costs as food, shelter, clothing giving leeway.
(He states food is $700 per month and this high from the weekend visitation)
:o
yes its mouth dropping.
overall, costs are the costs.
I just dont know how to consider transportation in this sitaution on any level...so yes I most likely will let my betters deduct whatever they want to deduct and just let me know whatever it is.
Click to expand...

Ok I am just not getting it, because you aren't commuicating clearly.
Is he asking you for money for costs during his time with the child? Or is he claiming costs are high during his time with the child, so support should be lowered?

Child support is for the child and is paid to you as the custodial parent. It isn't based on his expenses, its based on his income. He could easily spend $700 a month on food if he eats out all the time. But that would not remove his obligation to pay. When you say he is beyond the guidelines, does that mean the amount he has been ordered to pay is above the guidelines? If it is, he can file a motion to try and change that. He can't arbitrarily change it.

What is being asked to be deducted? NOTHING should be deducted from the support payment unless it is mutually agreed to, and added to the order/agreement.

I pay my ex the table amount for three kids. I take them places, feed them well, buy them things. I never have even considered asking for a reduction in support payments as a result. I did once object when my personal time with the kids was taken up with shopping for bras, which should be covered by my fairly generous support payments.
 
If he lives an extraordinary distance from the kids and incures high travel expenses in order have access, these costs may be used to lower the child support amount. This is written into legislation and supported by case law.
 
Mess said:
If he lives an extraordinary distance from the kids and incures high travel expenses in order have access, these costs may be used to lower the child support amount. This is written into legislation and supported by case law.
Click to expand...

And if that is the case, it should either been agreed upon and written into the agreement, or he can make a motion to change.
 
Question did he have input on the activities during his time?

It is great that the kids have this available to them but if you did not get his approval on this from him maybe that is the reason for him asking for the extra cash.

No matter what he is doing or asking, do you think that going to his level will help you move ahead?

He can ask for the moon if he wanted...so be it. He will have to prove everything any ways.

Just keep things in a legal perspective. Do your case conference, get motions going..etc...

Stop being the taxi for him....let him manage his time. Explain this to the kids that dad is responsible for it on his time.

Stop owning his responsibilities.

Keep you noise out of his time with the kids.

If his family don't want to pick the kids up or spend the time they have with them so be it. You have to keep out of that relationship...they own it not you.

Stop stressing over this and get things moving the right way for your sake and your kids.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I tried to keep it simple! I swear!

Im just at a standstill at dealing with transportation, thats basic...and separating the extra I am given.
Travel and transportation...in this case are 2 sep topics. 1. travel for visits and my sons visits out of province 2. transportation basic normal vs unnormal/ along with the expected BS that comes with dealing with the ex.
I was a non driver and now forced to drive to accomodate his demands. (that ticks me off) and forced to accomodate his demands on daycare etc. and incure extra costs that could ahve been all avoided and been economical! That... makes me grumpy by wasting money like that.

I agree its basic...i can suck it up. But my legal mess need to separate purposely made travels for unreasonable demands so that its covered and there is a guildeline to follow. I need to make sure the ground rules or foundation is set. Sounds stupid but its important in this case. Whats acceptable and what is not acceptable.

No There isnt anyone else paying outside of me...Im not even dating nor plan too. (another thread for that alone.) Emotionally unavailable and very ahppy being

And yes my ex is claiming to try to lower his child support.
He doesnt want to pay what his income is as " i dont deserve the money he gives me". His income was 152, 000 last year and was trying to get the child support to 80,00. (that didnt even make sense). This year I expect he has increased another $30-40,000. Not counting his bonus.
Initally I was indifferent to 80 or 150...whatever...but as time has gone on.... and he has dragged it out....since it came down to trial....best get all dealt with (such as custody). I was fine with joint but he has too many issues with EVERYTHING, and if I went to trial it would be sole. I should have sole now but whatever...
I agreed to 129 last year. including all his fudging.
grin and bear it.

as to lowering his amount:
yes he has travel costs to visit his kid, about 6,000 per year....I agreed to 7500. which is above and beyond what he needs.
Also his travel is fudged.
I also agreed to car mileage off as well...(it was stated $3745. BUT now has been changed to 10,000 per year (i believe he is including his 3 cars in this and his GF car as well).
I guess I will see what he presents shortly on this and do some calculations. (i ahve reviewed other threads on this)
Also that being said...his company covers his travel to visit his kid as a business trip.
He stated this via correspondence via his lawyer in jan/feb. they wont be covering this cost in the future. BUT he had been denying this for the last 8 or so years, it was in his contract for travel visits to see his son. plus im able to read airline coding and see his comany discount and information via the tickets I have been provided by his lawyer. so he has shot himself in the foot, all on his company card. (lots of details on this to proof what i say) etc etc
all the time in the previous years in court with the judge telling them it was not true what i was saying. totally fooling everyone except me. (how frustrating is that?)

he provided court with claims moving expenses off his child support of 20,000, in which his copmany also covered, also on his company card. i have the expense report. PLUS u can see his flights to visit his son, my sons VISITS for spring break also covered, all his mileage, hotel stays and dinners (5 star spa hotel nights) all on moving expense over and beyond whats normal moving costs etc...u get the idea. i beelieve a corporate dinner party is also claimed of his child support. (no joke)

also keep in mind as a business man he gets free flights and travel perks from the airline/hotel even though his company pays. (also reflected in my paper work ie sons tickets are free). so its not a cost for him to travel. and he ahs traveled frequently for personal fun trips 3 last year, france, rome and vegas. (thanks to twitter)

PLUS he not only wants moving costs deducted off child support...BUT claimed it with CRA.
and now into his visits to his son, he claims gas/car rental and hotel costs even though he has a car and his parents home he stays for free. food etc

Food! and my sons expenses are also calculated on his visits for summer care and spring break etc. not only for his visits.
he also financially disclosed his own costs and basic expenses, exaggerating bills but not declaring ANY assets.
and yes he is a spender and has bills.
but if u can afford to buy a BMW ...u can afford to pay for ur kid.
that all being said: daycare and camps: he hasnt paid previosuly. my son is claimed on my taxes...and now my ex wants to make sure he gets his portion of my taxes for his portion of daycare deductions, in the next coming year. (Thats another thread and battle). so he just refuses to pay anything, and its in the works. I should have got that garnished as well.

He is playing off the sytem and playing the poor dad card, hard done by the ex bitch. (and yes there are many of those guys and ladies) but he isnt one of them.

Also that all being said,
my ex states since i have too much money I must be doing something illegally, thus his reason for me not being allowed to go to disney or sandiego etc. since he is soo scared. (leg shakings, sarcastically said)
i took my son 2 yrs ago to europe and 5 days prior he changed his mind on the auth then had a load of paperwork allowing me again. I dont travel with my son to avoid this puprose. BUT thats also covered in the upcoming agreement and protects me from that nutbar. its not an issue anymore i guess. esp since i promised to stay in canada and give him 90 days notice.
(i laughed hard at that)...so now he has no issue with my son traveling.
again sicne he has been the one threatening to take my son and I would never see him again. There is a lot of hurt ego, vindictiveness, jealousy and hate. (we wont go into why...as thats a gong show on its own , and not due to me, believe it or not!)

My expenses for my son are under review which is fine with me...since I dont have to hide anything. PLUS I have statements for savings, creditline, credit cards and any and all transactions since 2008. I have spoken to a forensic accoutant and a travel professional and able to use them as "proof, if ever needed. But thats just hot air ,and a waste of money on legal BS. I have papers, receipts, emails galore all on memory stick. so easy to provide and prove what i am saying.

anyway going forward and looking at costs and how to work out what the basics are and what basics are not like his giving me errands to do, or adding on activities that forces me to accomodate (regardless if i am in school or working)...or dealing with his family. Im lucky and have people around me that are supportive. BUT I left with nothing, there isnt any spousal support, no home or furniture divisions, etc...I left and he can keep that crap. JUST pay for ur kid.

The good thing about it all is family wizard and now its monitored and can be reviewed by court, and if i have to chase him...he has my court fees.
so I need to make sure everything is clarified and limit this persons control and keep things cut and dry.
obviosly there is emotions...im an emotional person BUT a person like that ...I ran out of sad a long time ago. It took him calling his kid to brag he got himself a puppy on my sons BDAY, or was in vancouver watching the whales or in chicago watching a basketball game. For a little boy who loves his dad...thats a kick in the pants. my emotions went out the door. My son loves it when he is watched at swim class, dying to brag...and here are people who want no part of it. (thats also in the agreement...they dont want activities on their time)...
And here I am yapping.
Im just old reliable and do the daily old boring stuff like soccer practice, or student led conferences, dr appts etc. Im good with old boring.
sorry for the long explianation. I really tried to avoid the "tale of woe" or wall of words

sorry! :(
 
If I sound harsh, please forgive me because I am trying to help. Your emotion is overriding the issues at hand and that makes it extremely difficult for us to figure out the issues and provide some form of help.

For example, I asked if he was paying child support. I have dug really hard and there is an inkling that something is being paid, but no actual confirmation.

Travel: he is entitled, as Mess noted, to make these claims. You have legitimate concerns, but you need to make these clear and concise to your lawyer so he/she can act in your best interests. I have to be honest with you, if I received an email with this info, I wouldn't know where to start so as to act in your best interests.

Transportation: It is sad really that you indicate you have been forced to drive. Not because you have been forced, but that you think that way. No one controls you hun. Only you can control you. Only you can make decisions in yours and your childs best interests.

IMHO, when you get rid of the emotion, you will be able to get rid of the resentment and bitterness you feel. We have all felt it. It really HAS come to a business transaction between you and your ex/his family. While that may leave a bitter taste in your mouth right now, it really it quite a freeing thing.

I wish you the best.
 
@Roxy.....damn with the size of that post above :D

As has been mentioned to you, I know it's hard and trust me we all have those resentment feelings, it will be in the kids benefit and yours to put those 'stinging emotions' aside for now, and concentrate on what really matters :)

BMW, Jaguar and Mercedes aren't what they use to be (owned by the middle class and elite back then). These cars are now used as taxis in Europe for decades now and even you can buy one if you are into all that for next to nothing and have it shipped home.

I digress.....if you pause for a sec and read your posts again, you will see that nothing about them are "child-centric"

The fact that you got off your bum and started driving deserves kudos, and I hope you can see it that way
 
You need a lawyer to push back.

If he wants to lower the support payments to reflect expenses, he should be able to demonstrate those expenses with receipts. It should be that simple. Not estimates. Receipts. And reasonable expenses as well.
 
Children's activity costs: They live with you primarily, they have their activities when with you, you signed them up. The cost should be paid out of child support. If there are extraordinary costs because they compete at high level sports, then you need to get a court to rule that these are section 7 expenses, otherwise they are your concern alone. If the dad "talked you into it" you need to work on setting personal boundaries and being more assertive. You also need to own your decisions.

Access travel costs: If you believe he is inflating his travel costs, then require that he provide receipts along with his next full financial disclosure. Have Child Support and section 7 expenses dealt with at a motion hearing, due to insufficient disclosure. Either that or let it go. There is no in between.

Your travel costs: I believe you are saying that you incur a lot of costs due to having to now drive the kids everywhere, as compared to when you were married and had no driver's license. Welcome to the world of the single adult parent.

Child support amount: In your first post you stated that he is paying more than table amounts due to his income being over 150k. Later you mention a figure of $20,000, I presume that is per year? So he seeks to have his travel costs for access deducted from this figure. If he has receipts, this is fair. If he gets travel expenses through his business, as long as those expenses are taxable, then that is what it is.

In all of this I am not sure exactly what it is you are seeking.
 
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