Threat - occupational rent

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standing on the sidelines said:
Did you honestly think that you would be entitled to live rent free?? She doesnt owe half for utilities, you used the services you pay.
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Aw thanks for actually contributing to the thread, I appreciate it.

Didnt know I had to pay rent for the house I owned. Considering she has lived here when I was not here, and use the facilities when it suited her, you can colour me suprised. Who would have thought when someone walks away from ther family and children they can start charging rent for the house she left.

Especially when my lawyer did not advise me of this during the last 2 years. I'll be sure to make sure occupational rent I pay is calculated without utilities, if I'm not entitled to them, guess she isn't either. Thanks for the free advice.

P.S. I am paying for the utilies the both I and our children use. If you read the op you'll note she hasn't been paying CC.
 
Mess said:
Occupational rent if calculated fairly should consider these issues:

  1. She is only half owner of the house; you are the other owner.
  2. If the house were rented out to a third party, you would split the received rent.
  3. She should therefore only be entitled to, at most, half of the market rate for a similar home.
  4. As a joint owner receiving rent, she is also jointly responsible for maintainence costs, capital repairs, taxes, and insurance. If there is an outstanding mortgage, she is still responsible for half the monthly payments.
  5. Utilities should be paid by the occupant, however in such a case where utilities are not included, rent should be at the low end of market rates.
Calculate taxes, insurance, and any maintainence and repairs that would not be expected of a tenant; that is, do not include cleaning supplies but do include paint, stucco, hardware, large applicance repairs, furnace maintanence. Generally calculate the amount spent per year, and pro-rate it for the month, and then compare that to the fair market rent. IMHO it would also be reasonable to pro-rate long term capital costs like roof replacement, depreciation on appliances, etc. If the home is being treated like a commercial property, this would be normal. A proportion of rent paid should be dedicated to a capital costs reserve. Finally, any rent paid to the ex should be included in her taxable income.
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Thank you very much for a very insightful post
 
ark_justice said:
Didnt know I had to pay rent for the house I owned. Considering she has lived here when I was not here, and use the facilities when it suited her, you can colour me suprised. Who would have thought when someone walks away from ther family and children they can start charging rent for the house she left.
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It's YOUR job to educate yourself on your/her rights. If you choose not to, how do you qualify crying foul when she excercises her rights?

Just because she is divorcing you, does not mean she isn't entitled to her rightfully owned property. She divorced you, not the house.
 
I thought you said she's currently paying $1450/month in cs. Which, by the way, would include your utilities.
Sounds like she's stopped paying ss. How was it determined that you qualified for ss?

You've had the advantage of living mortgage/rent free for the last 2 years, in the joint matrimonial home. I'd be pushing to settle it, and buy her half of the house. You've moved on in all but this last asset.
 
mcdreamy said:
I thought you said she's currently paying $1450/month in cs. Which, by the way, would include your utilities.
Sounds like she's stopped paying ss. How was it determined that you qualified for ss?

You've had the advantage of living mortgage/rent free for the last 2 years, in the joint matrimonial home. I'd be pushing to settle it, and buy her half of the house. You've moved on in all but this last asset.
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Base on our income spousal and child support was calculated at $2900, I agreed to $2500. I've been getting $1450.
 
blinkandimgone said:
It's YOUR job to educate yourself on your/her rights. If you choose not to, how do you qualify crying foul when she excercises her rights?

Just because she is divorcing you, does not mean she isn't entitled to her rightfully owned property. She divorced you, not the house.
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I pay a lawyer to educate me. Clearly they are not doing their job. I am not a lawyer. She is entitled half the house, which she will be bought out of. I was uninformed that she was entitled to Rey as well.
 
I'm sorry, Ark, maybe I wasn't clear.

To my knowledge, there is no "combined" cs/ss.

You have a calculation for cs, and then you have a calculation for ss (if you qualify).

Does the $1450 equal the cs calculation?
 
ark_justice said:
I pay a lawyer to educate me. Clearly they are not doing their job. I am not a lawyer. She is entitled half the house, which she will be bought out of. I was uninformed that she was entitled to Rey as well.
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Again, not her fault or her problem. You need to take ownership for what you are responsible for. It just isn't her fault that you failed to educate yourself or hired a lawyer that isn't working for you.

Did you honestly think you would just continue to live in a property that belongs partially to someone else, tying up their assets and they should just suck it up? Really?

Educate yourself. If you can't or won't then direct your lawyer to do what you expect them to do.

This isn't rocket surgery.
 
blinkandimgone said:
Again, not her fault or her problem. You need to take ownership for what you are responsible for. It just isn't her fault that you failed to educate yourself or hired a lawyer that isn't working for you.

Did you honestly think you would just continue to live in a property that belongs partially to someone else, tying up their assets and they should just suck it up? Really?

Educate yourself. If you can't or won't then direct your lawyer to do what you expect them to do.

This isn't rocket surgery.
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Again I cant educate myself when I don't know something exist. I pay a lawyer to do that. I can't ask my lawyer about that which I don't to ask. That is like asking someone why they didn't think of education themselves about a species they didn't know existed, even when the hired expert has failed to mention it did.
 
ark_justice said:
Again I cant educate myself when I don't know something exist. I pay a lawyer to do that. I can't ask my lawyer about that which I don't to ask. That is like asking someone why they didn't think of education themselves about a species they didn't know existed, even when the hired expert has failed to mention it did.
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I have been planning to ask my lawyer: "Are there any questions that I haven't asked that I should be asking?" Since reading this thread I will lend further emphasis to my question by adding: "Especially those that would benefit me financially."
 
ark_justice said:
Sorry,
$900 cs
$1600 ss
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Got it. So she is paying her cs.
And it appears as though she has arbitrarily decided to decrease your ss.

How was your ss calculation arrived at? Difference in incomes alone does not make an entitlement for ss. What were the arguments your lawyer used to demand $1600 monthly ss?

All that said, it really has nothing to do with the fact that you have one big asset remaining to divide - the house. I think you get that you are entitled to a 50% interest, as is she. For the last 2 years, you have had the entire benefit of that asset.

You had posted in the past about differences in appraisals - have you moved a final determination of value forward at all?
 
ark_justice said:
Again I cant educate myself when I don't know something exist. I pay a lawyer to do that. I can't ask my lawyer about that which I don't to ask. That is like asking someone why they didn't think of education themselves about a species they didn't know existed, even when the hired expert has failed to mention it did.
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That is the right question! Ok think about it, every member here found this site with knowledge ranging from pure ignorant in facts and maybe a person has been in the business for 20 years. I like I think most new comers started with one thing in common -- Divorce, seperation, our children for those who have them - Common to us all is we are going through a life change and most know little to nothing, what to ask, how to ask, some of us have a harder time to "get it" but.....

You have found the right place to learn, only you know your circumstance - your lawyer only knows what you tell him/her so you need to remember that this is your case, your lawyer is there to help you but you can't leave your future in the hands of a person to whom you know little to nothing about (your lawyer and if you are lucky you knew all the right questions to ask a lawyer before putting down your retainer ------If you caught on with the previous phrase "if you are lucky you knew all the right questions": Luck has nothing to do with this and two; you will never know all the right questions.

The other thing that is hard for many, is the court doesn't care about the feelings you have, how you feel your ex didn't do "_____"; what they do care about is the children, best interests of same and wether you will be able to communicate with your ex to take care of your children in their new family structure. Oh, and truth has little to with the courts, only care about what can be proven and to what degree. Lawyers are said to love the feelings aspect, this is where the fees can escalate faster than you knew was possible! You are lucky if you have found one of those rare individuals that will actually watch what is worth their fees and to tell the client "Stop, you can't win this or that - so move on". What you will see here a lot is how members ran out of money, can't afford to keep the lawyer going and they must go the very difficult self rep route. (then there is nobody to fall back on but yourself so you would need to commit to what might be a full time job plus overtime to prepare......)
 
Occupational rent is something you should discuss with your lawyer.

You may wish to discuss what value your occupation of the house has had on the property. But for your occupation, the home would have been abandoned. By your continued occupancy, you ensure its upkeep and maintenance.
 
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