I am reeling from the news that my wife does not see us together in the future. After the depression, crying and anger which is still fresh I am realizing I have to figure out my rights and options. Basicly I have been the stay at home Dad. I make very little from my part time work ($10,000)and my wife makes about $340,000 a year before tax.The house is just about paid for and has a value of about $325,000. Because I am a man does that mean I will get a different kind of deal when it is all worked out?
tables turned
- Thread starter cic
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Sorry to hear that, and best of luck.
First, I am sorry to say that it really depends on the judge. By law, they are supposed to not look at the sex or the reason of the separation. However, from listenning to stories, some judges are still sexists.
You are entitled to half the value of the house. The rest of the value in the marriage is up for negotiations.
How long were you married for?
Depending on the custody arrangement, you might be entitled to quite a bit of child support. Also, for a short period of time, your net disposable income should be roughly 45% of both your incomes.
Just read through all these forums and even CanLII for old cases.
First, I am sorry to say that it really depends on the judge. By law, they are supposed to not look at the sex or the reason of the separation. However, from listenning to stories, some judges are still sexists.
You are entitled to half the value of the house. The rest of the value in the marriage is up for negotiations.
How long were you married for?
Depending on the custody arrangement, you might be entitled to quite a bit of child support. Also, for a short period of time, your net disposable income should be roughly 45% of both your incomes.
Just read through all these forums and even CanLII for old cases.
Hi, thank you for your reply. We have been together for 17 yrs and married for 14. She is a doctor but upgraded to specialist for 4 years while I looked after the kids who are now 13 & 15.
When you say depends on the judge does that mean if we cant settle amicably?
I am in the process of trying to find a lawyer. I know some are better than others but really don't have a clue where to start. I am just looking through the yellow pages and will call a bunch of different ones to see what they say. What a horrible nightmare this is.
I will read through the forums and am finding it eyeopening and scary. I will keep educating myself.
When you say depends on the judge does that mean if we cant settle amicably?
I am in the process of trying to find a lawyer. I know some are better than others but really don't have a clue where to start. I am just looking through the yellow pages and will call a bunch of different ones to see what they say. What a horrible nightmare this is.
I will read through the forums and am finding it eyeopening and scary. I will keep educating myself.
I suggest looking up the child support tables. I'm guessing with two kids, her portion would be about 1000$ per month if you have joint custody. But, look it up, it'll give you a good idea.
A judge will follow those tables almost to the letter. They are very strict on it, and you can't go off from them really.
But, for spousal support and division of assets, you could sign off 100% of it and a judge should not over rule it. So, hopefully you can negotiate something and don't have to go to court.
The rule for spousal support without kids is that she owes you spousal support for about half the lenght of the marriage. That is the minimum, and the maximum is the length of marriage I think.
There is a document out there, entitled "Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines" which is a good read.
They will also look at how employable you are I believe. You will have to do your best to upgrade your skills and find a good job.
And, I am sort of in the opposite position, I make the highest salary, but not by such a large margin. I allowed her to collect the CCTB and UCCB simply because she would collect more then I would. That would be a smart thing to do in your place I believe. And, allow her to take the tax credits and split it 50/50 maybe since she's at a higher bracket.
A judge will follow those tables almost to the letter. They are very strict on it, and you can't go off from them really.
But, for spousal support and division of assets, you could sign off 100% of it and a judge should not over rule it. So, hopefully you can negotiate something and don't have to go to court.
The rule for spousal support without kids is that she owes you spousal support for about half the lenght of the marriage. That is the minimum, and the maximum is the length of marriage I think.
There is a document out there, entitled "Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines" which is a good read.
They will also look at how employable you are I believe. You will have to do your best to upgrade your skills and find a good job.
And, I am sort of in the opposite position, I make the highest salary, but not by such a large margin. I allowed her to collect the CCTB and UCCB simply because she would collect more then I would. That would be a smart thing to do in your place I believe. And, allow her to take the tax credits and split it 50/50 maybe since she's at a higher bracket.
Hi, thanks for you input. I am a bit naive. What is CCTB and UCCB ?
We still don't know what we are going to do.
Has anyone heard of the Family Law Centre? are they whorth persueing and paying $426. for?
Family Law Centre
They say that I would save a lot of time and money by using them
We still don't know what we are going to do.
Has anyone heard of the Family Law Centre? are they whorth persueing and paying $426. for?
Family Law Centre
They say that I would save a lot of time and money by using them
UCCB is universal child care benefit I believe. It's 100$ per month, taxable.
CCTB is Canadian Child Tax Benefit maybe. This one varies by which province you're in and your salary. I'm not in Ontario, but under you're income you'd probably get 300$ or so. She would get 50$ at most.
I have not heard anything from those type of places. I believe a mediator would charge about 5 000$. After doing some research and trying to figure out what you want, ask your ex wife how she feels. I think a mediator would be the safest and cheapest way to go through with this. I am not sure how secure these documents are if they are contested in the future.
CCTB is Canadian Child Tax Benefit maybe. This one varies by which province you're in and your salary. I'm not in Ontario, but under you're income you'd probably get 300$ or so. She would get 50$ at most.
I have not heard anything from those type of places. I believe a mediator would charge about 5 000$. After doing some research and trying to figure out what you want, ask your ex wife how she feels. I think a mediator would be the safest and cheapest way to go through with this. I am not sure how secure these documents are if they are contested in the future.
Thanks for the clarification. Child support? I haven't even thought about how custody and all that is going to work. I am still spinning and in the emotional quagmire between anger and profound sadness.. I still don't have a clue as to what will happen. Very many questions to be figured out. I went ahead and paid a fee for the services of family law centre .com
I think they will be useful and will save time and money in the long run.
I think they will be useful and will save time and money in the long run.
With your income level you should be applying to LEGAL AID. If your application is approved you get a lawyer for free. Else lawyers can cost from $5,000 and up to handle your case.
The house is half yours - that's a definite. You should definitely also be asking for spousal support in light of what you described above.
As for custody it does all depend on what Judge you get and how good your lawyer is in presenting your case.
Good luck and stay strong - we have all been through the abyss you are going through. It's one of the toughest experiences in one's life especially when children are involved.
We're here if you need emotional support!
billiechic
New member
If you apply for Legal Aid you might be required to pay the lawyers fees when you recieve your share from the division of the value of the house. You will not be recieving UCCB as that is for children 6 and under.
I think mediation is your best option or even just getting a lawyer to look over your separation agreement if you can manage to draw one up amicably. If you have to pay legal aid back it might turn out to be more.
Spend some time educating yourself and figuring out the options before you make a decision. I'm guessing you will probably share custody of the children, so don't move out of the house until you work out an agreement in writing.
There's lots of good advice on here, just ask if you need help. Good luck
I think mediation is your best option or even just getting a lawyer to look over your separation agreement if you can manage to draw one up amicably. If you have to pay legal aid back it might turn out to be more.
Spend some time educating yourself and figuring out the options before you make a decision. I'm guessing you will probably share custody of the children, so don't move out of the house until you work out an agreement in writing.
There's lots of good advice on here, just ask if you need help. Good luck
I can see that this forum will be helpful for me and I will be perusing it when I have the time. I have never felt this much emotional pain in my life and will be looking for threads that describe hope. I just never thought I would be in this situation. As a child then adolescent I witnessed two horrible divorces and now a lot of that is being stirred up in me. Sadness,anger, regret the list goes on. I really hope I can survive this!
Legal aid will only pay for custody and child support, it won't cover costs for anything else. Very few lawyers accept legal aid certificates, although if you get a lawyer that has experience with a lot of clients with low income then they will be able to understand your needs better as well as the barriers you have to overcome to get your life back on track.
The Child Support Tables don't apply to incomes over about 150k, and your wife earns 340k so the tables are out the window. The CS will be determined according to your individual case, not a formula. Probably this is to your favour.
You definately qualify for spousal support, and you should try to get some retraining or a degree for yourself to move on in life. This isn't just financial, it will help your self esteem and help you rebuild your social life and give you some direction. It makes a huge difference to your emotional state to see a new beginning ahead instead of focusing on the crap that is behind you.
Your lawyer can argue that spousal support to enable you to retrain is in your ex's best interest as well as the best interest of the kids. Getting you on your feet takes the pressure off of her and sets a great example for your children.
I am in a similar position to you, my ex wife makes 5x my income, and I spent years working part time and caring for the kids after school. Society, culture, family expectations, parents, etc, all put a huge pressure on men to conform to the breadwinner, and it will really hit you hard at times. Remember that this is your right, it is a right hard fought for, and your support of your wife is what allowed her to focus on her career. That career was an investment the two of you made together.
Good luck.
The Child Support Tables don't apply to incomes over about 150k, and your wife earns 340k so the tables are out the window. The CS will be determined according to your individual case, not a formula. Probably this is to your favour.
You definately qualify for spousal support, and you should try to get some retraining or a degree for yourself to move on in life. This isn't just financial, it will help your self esteem and help you rebuild your social life and give you some direction. It makes a huge difference to your emotional state to see a new beginning ahead instead of focusing on the crap that is behind you.
Your lawyer can argue that spousal support to enable you to retrain is in your ex's best interest as well as the best interest of the kids. Getting you on your feet takes the pressure off of her and sets a great example for your children.
I am in a similar position to you, my ex wife makes 5x my income, and I spent years working part time and caring for the kids after school. Society, culture, family expectations, parents, etc, all put a huge pressure on men to conform to the breadwinner, and it will really hit you hard at times. Remember that this is your right, it is a right hard fought for, and your support of your wife is what allowed her to focus on her career. That career was an investment the two of you made together.
Good luck.
thank you for your words of support. Its funny, next year I was planning to go back to school and get my BFA. I am not sure how it would help as far as jobs go but I felt that it would be a good thing to do. It would be in Toronto and we live 3 hours away so I was planning to get an apartment for the duration.The problem is that my daughter really wants to go to private school in grade 9 in Toronto as well and that will be expensive. I feel if and when the divorce happens then the money would go to me instead of my child's wish for school. I don't know how I could choose me and deny her an opportunity which she really would benefit from. Also, my 15 year old son is a going concern. I am heartbroken at the prospect of putting him through a divorce even if it is amicable,which is not for certain. My wife is naive and I dont think she realizes how devastating this will be for everyone involved. She still expects me to be cheerful and hospitable to her family when they come for thanksgiving.
billiechic
New member
Does she really expect you to put on a brave face for her family? Has she told them?
Private school may not be out of the picture. If it is something you've agreed to already then you can enroll her and your wife would be expected to pay her share (which would be most) of the cost. And since she will likely be paying you spousal support you may be able to figure out a way to pay for your school. Since you were married for 14 years it is very likely you will be getting spousal support long enough for you to earn a degree.
Don't lose hope, you will get through this and survive.
Private school may not be out of the picture. If it is something you've agreed to already then you can enroll her and your wife would be expected to pay her share (which would be most) of the cost. And since she will likely be paying you spousal support you may be able to figure out a way to pay for your school. Since you were married for 14 years it is very likely you will be getting spousal support long enough for you to earn a degree.
Don't lose hope, you will get through this and survive.
All this happened just before my 54th birthday last week so it is all very new. I don't smoke or drink anything and haven't for 14 years. We do talk ,but it is mostly me saying things to her that I should have said years ago. Like ,"perhaps your chronic dope smoking has something to do with why I don't relate to you most of the time and don't feel intimate" I used to drink but quit about a year into the marriage knowing that if I didn't there would be no hope for us. I brought my own insecurities with me into it but feel with the help I got from a therapist ( and am getting now ) that I have really come a long way and things seemed to be getting a lot better. I could go on and on but I guess I have to face the impending situation rather than mope about what shoulda,coulda woulda have been . I am pissed off that she is wanting to split now that we have got this far. We struggled and overcame a lot. It seemed that things were just going to get better and better.
For the sake of the kids we haven't said anything and we were planning to live together for the year until my daughter and I go away to school. I think they know something is up because it is very hard for me to keep up the front when every day I find myself hiding away somewhere in tears. Before this happened my son was going to either go to private school as well or stay at home with my wife. I know it would have been tough for him with me not there but I was planning to come home most weekends and he and my wife were going to visit too. Now that there is a divorce that changes the dynamic because now he will really feel abandoned and screwed up. No matter what happens he will suffer. He may have to come to TO with me when I go to school but that will be very hard. So my wife would stay in the house with the dog and the cat and bliss out in her past lives? About 7 years ago my wife started getting into past life regression and started meditating and practicing relaxation techniques.She has embraced "past life" regression and believes that her "soul guides" are here to help her.( see" The Instruction" by psychic Ainsley Macleod http://www.soul-world.com/ainslie.html} She has spend $500. for half hour telephone sessions with psychics. She really believes that she has gone back and has seen many different past lives and that it is helping her with this one.
I guess right now I have to figure out if I can tolerate and live with this situation for a year. I have to figure out if she can afford to pay for all the schooling and if she cant then maybe she has to go into debt ( again),we just paid off the mortgage.) I am afraid she will quit her job ( 9 years to go before retirement with a good pension) and become a hypnotherapist specializing in past life regression. I am having a consultation with a lawyer in two weeks. I read somewhere that to save money its a good idea to copy as many of the pertinent documents as possible before seeing a lawyer. I get bittersweet solace in copying her income tax statements etc. on the sly but I guess I really have to try to protect myself. On of the reasons I am so sad is that I know how hard this will be on the kids.
I did support her at my careers expense so do feel that that investment needs to be shared.
Your input is really helping me deal with this and alleviates the utter loneliness I feel.
Thanks
For the sake of the kids we haven't said anything and we were planning to live together for the year until my daughter and I go away to school. I think they know something is up because it is very hard for me to keep up the front when every day I find myself hiding away somewhere in tears. Before this happened my son was going to either go to private school as well or stay at home with my wife. I know it would have been tough for him with me not there but I was planning to come home most weekends and he and my wife were going to visit too. Now that there is a divorce that changes the dynamic because now he will really feel abandoned and screwed up. No matter what happens he will suffer. He may have to come to TO with me when I go to school but that will be very hard. So my wife would stay in the house with the dog and the cat and bliss out in her past lives? About 7 years ago my wife started getting into past life regression and started meditating and practicing relaxation techniques.She has embraced "past life" regression and believes that her "soul guides" are here to help her.( see" The Instruction" by psychic Ainsley Macleod http://www.soul-world.com/ainslie.html} She has spend $500. for half hour telephone sessions with psychics. She really believes that she has gone back and has seen many different past lives and that it is helping her with this one.
I guess right now I have to figure out if I can tolerate and live with this situation for a year. I have to figure out if she can afford to pay for all the schooling and if she cant then maybe she has to go into debt ( again),we just paid off the mortgage.) I am afraid she will quit her job ( 9 years to go before retirement with a good pension) and become a hypnotherapist specializing in past life regression. I am having a consultation with a lawyer in two weeks. I read somewhere that to save money its a good idea to copy as many of the pertinent documents as possible before seeing a lawyer. I get bittersweet solace in copying her income tax statements etc. on the sly but I guess I really have to try to protect myself. On of the reasons I am so sad is that I know how hard this will be on the kids.
I did support her at my careers expense so do feel that that investment needs to be shared.
Your input is really helping me deal with this and alleviates the utter loneliness I feel.
Thanks
Lots of people smoke pot, including professionals. It's no reason why communication or intimacy should be sacrificed or affected because of it. Many find it as a way to unwind at the end of the day instead of having a martini or glass of wine and for many intimacy is enhanced after smoking pot. It also seems that your wife's pot smoking wasn't affecting her ability to earn $340,000/yr which would have been a contentious issue if it had.
Perhaps the wage disparity between your two incomes may have been a factor in your wife's alienation as she may have felt that she was solely responsible for all the living expenses. This is not an uncommon cause for alienation between spouses as money plays a key role in maintaining any healthy relationship.
I would recommend you see your doctor in addition to your lawyer. Separation and divorce, especially when there are children in the marriage, can be emotionally devastating not to mention financially crippling. Anxiety, helplessness, sleeplessness, depression are common in divorce. So tell your doctor how you feel - there are plenty of medicines that can help elevate your mood during what is a trying time. Else you risk the possibility of going to bed at night and waking up in the morning with a bottle of Jack Daniels at your side - not good.
Perhaps the wage disparity between your two incomes may have been a factor in your wife's alienation as she may have felt that she was solely responsible for all the living expenses. This is not an uncommon cause for alienation between spouses as money plays a key role in maintaining any healthy relationship.
I would recommend you see your doctor in addition to your lawyer. Separation and divorce, especially when there are children in the marriage, can be emotionally devastating not to mention financially crippling. Anxiety, helplessness, sleeplessness, depression are common in divorce. So tell your doctor how you feel - there are plenty of medicines that can help elevate your mood during what is a trying time. Else you risk the possibility of going to bed at night and waking up in the morning with a bottle of Jack Daniels at your side - not good.
You may have a point about the pot but it was also used as a way to avoid and distance herself from me. I in turn used computer addiction,guitar playing addiction and various other obsessive means to escape. Part of my grief is the realization that I have had at least an equal role to play in this situation and feel huge regret and remorse for letting it get to this point. The disparity in our incomes was definitely a strain for us both. That was and still is very difficult for me as I gave up a fairly promising career to be with this woman and raise a couple of kids away from the big noisy city. The oppourtunities for me here have been extremely limited and I was very busy being the house spouse when she returned to school for 4 years and then just daily child care,house maintenance etc.from then on.
I am pretty sure I wont be waking up with a bottle beside me. That part of my life is really gone. I know that if I did that ,that it would be the worse possible thing I could do. I am seeing a therepist and that is really helping. Your input is remarkibly helpful and I thank you for it. Part of getting through this will be admitting very painful truths and your candor is much appreciated. I take a sleeping pill which is helping me through the night.
I am pretty sure I wont be waking up with a bottle beside me. That part of my life is really gone. I know that if I did that ,that it would be the worse possible thing I could do. I am seeing a therepist and that is really helping. Your input is remarkibly helpful and I thank you for it. Part of getting through this will be admitting very painful truths and your candor is much appreciated. I take a sleeping pill which is helping me through the night.
Also, when she smoked she became stoned and it is hard to be with someone when they are stoned and you are not. I really liked her personality when she was straight. She was herself. She reminded me that she was straight when she was pregnant . Which is a good point. However during those years we where having a hard time anyway.I almost feel that she traded this marriage for pot but that may be going to far. I quit drinking why couldn't she quit pot. I never even once asked her to quit and always thought that she would on her own. She has said that she has wanted to quit for a long time and it is ironic that she will be using this breakup to achieve it ( so she says) She has also started losing weight which she gained during our time together. I know she was eating because she was unhappy but I was too self centered to do anything about it, I didn't know what to do or was afraid to. She just needed some love and I was too stubborn and stupid not to give it to her. That is a sad thing to realize. Hindsight is 20/20
A man being under the financial thumb of a woman is really a no win situation. I felt I couldn't do or say anything because she had the control. Not a good recipe for a marriage.
I suggested that she try us for a year straight and if she still didn't feel it would work then so be it. At least we would know that it wasn't the pot. She says she doesn't think it would make a difference. Perhaps not.
Maybe I should be honest with myself and accept that we just were not meant to be together. It is so hard to accept that that may be the case. I do love her. It is a whirlwind of emotion.
A man being under the financial thumb of a woman is really a no win situation. I felt I couldn't do or say anything because she had the control. Not a good recipe for a marriage.
I suggested that she try us for a year straight and if she still didn't feel it would work then so be it. At least we would know that it wasn't the pot. She says she doesn't think it would make a difference. Perhaps not.
Maybe I should be honest with myself and accept that we just were not meant to be together. It is so hard to accept that that may be the case. I do love her. It is a whirlwind of emotion.
Glad to hear you are not hitting the bottle as many do during stressful times - it's a dead end street.
Sleeping pills or anxiolytics (diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam, etc) all work great for the short term and help keep your "motor" from overheating. But the beneficial effects are short term as they treat the symptoms and not the cause. I would urge you to talk to your therapist/doctor and look at getting a prescription for SSRI anti-depressants which work on elevating your serotonin levels in your brain which are responsible for mood. Unlike anxiolytics such as sleeping pills, SSRI anti-depressants take longer to work (about 2 to 3 weeks after onset of treatment) but treat the cause of depression and anxiety rather than just the symptoms. They will lift you up from the doldrums of despair, anxiety & confusion.
Sleeping pills or anxiolytics (diazepam, alprazolam, lorazepam, etc) all work great for the short term and help keep your "motor" from overheating. But the beneficial effects are short term as they treat the symptoms and not the cause. I would urge you to talk to your therapist/doctor and look at getting a prescription for SSRI anti-depressants which work on elevating your serotonin levels in your brain which are responsible for mood. Unlike anxiolytics such as sleeping pills, SSRI anti-depressants take longer to work (about 2 to 3 weeks after onset of treatment) but treat the cause of depression and anxiety rather than just the symptoms. They will lift you up from the doldrums of despair, anxiety & confusion.
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