supporting Ontario teacher walk out tomorrow?
- Thread starter mcdreamy
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I don't support the unions and don't agree with what they are doing. They are frazing their wording as to make it appear that it is a "protest" and not a strike, so as to avoid labour laws. We all know it is a strike and I hope every one that participates is fined to maximum extent possible.
They have had it very good for many years. The Liberals have dumped more money into education than most. IMO, they are acting like entitled brats who always want more when there isn't more to give.
If they want to protest, they can do it on their own time. If this was private industry, the individuals would be fired and rightfully so.
They have had it very good for many years. The Liberals have dumped more money into education than most. IMO, they are acting like entitled brats who always want more when there isn't more to give.
If they want to protest, they can do it on their own time. If this was private industry, the individuals would be fired and rightfully so.
wretchedotis
New member
The state of the 'labour movement' is horrible these days.
Call it austerity, call it a recession, call it whatever...
The living standard of the typical tax-payer has been substantially reduced over the last decade. Our system of 'Capitalism' fails in as many aspects as it succeeds.
Having said that, I support them standing up for their wage/benefits/standard of living.
I, however, am not happy that I will need to lose a days pay over it.
Call it austerity, call it a recession, call it whatever...
The living standard of the typical tax-payer has been substantially reduced over the last decade. Our system of 'Capitalism' fails in as many aspects as it succeeds.
Having said that, I support them standing up for their wage/benefits/standard of living.
I, however, am not happy that I will need to lose a days pay over it.
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The tax-payers standard of living has decreased partially due to increased taxes to pay for these public sector unions extravegent requests.
I'm not gonna get into a debate on capitalism vs socialism (IMO both in their truest forms are complete failures). But the tax-payer is pretty much tapped out. Given the last streak of billion $$ fiasco's (ehealth, Ornge, power plants etc), we've pissed away too much money. Having a $16,000,000,000 deficit isn't good either. We need to do something now or our grandkids will be paying for our stupidity. And clawing back costly entitlements that one would rarely see in the private sector, is just one way of digging our way out of the hole McGuinty and company have dug for us.
wretchedotis
New member
I can appreciate your point of view.
But I fail to see how insisting on 15 paid sick days is worse than a 10 million dollar CEO bonus, when said CEO`s company was just bailed out by a Government whose dollars were acquired from the average tax payer in the first place.
But I fail to see how insisting on 15 paid sick days is worse than a 10 million dollar CEO bonus, when said CEO`s company was just bailed out by a Government whose dollars were acquired from the average tax payer in the first place.
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Berner_Faith
New member
In my personal opinion, I think the teachers should accept what they have. I will be honest, I have not read the entire bill but from what I gather they have nothing to complain about. They work 10 months of the year, get summers off, plus other Holiday's and I am sorry, but there are people that make way less and survive. They wanted to be teachers, their job is to teach, if they don't feel they are being fair they can go elsewhere... I know there are younger teachers who would LOVE the opportunity to be teaching, but because of cuts they cannot get into the teaching industry.
At the same time, I think the politicians should take a massive pay cut as well...but lets face it, the government is going to do whatever they want.
At the same time, I think the politicians should take a massive pay cut as well...but lets face it, the government is going to do whatever they want.
wretchedotis
New member
It is what it is.
I am not particularily a proponant of Communsim, or Socialsim, or any ISM.
I just think what we have is certainly flawed in many of ways.
However, I am not the economic Einstein to offer a better method, either.
I am not particularily a proponant of Communsim, or Socialsim, or any ISM.
I just think what we have is certainly flawed in many of ways.
However, I am not the economic Einstein to offer a better method, either.
wretchedotis
New member
Except for maybe sharing the attached pic I pulled off faceBook
(see attachement)
Attachments
Keep in mind that, in a unionized environment, should a teacher not participate, she could face decades of social ostracism, which would make the job almost impossible since, like most jobs, teaching requires a certain amount of cooperation from your peers.
The unions should be fined, but not the individual members.
That said, I find it hard to rail against the teachers, when my brother, who earns twice as much as I do, pays substantially less income tax than I do with all his write-offs for cars, vacations, etc. If the government is that strapped for cash, they can certainly hit him up for more money by closing some loopholes. (For example, each member of his 4-person family owns 25% of a corporation in which he is the only real employee, the tax implications are ridiculous).
Not that I fault my brother in any way, when you have lousy rules, you should exploit them.
I think the teachers are just an easy target. Bill 115 is not about saving money, it is about trying to win the next election. Unfortunately (as a Liberal supporter) I think their attempt to move to the right to undermine the Conservatives is not going to work due to the number of people who will defect to the left. Ah well.
Dubious writeoffs, fraudulent charities, a ridiculous lower tax rate on dividend income vs regular income. If the government was serious about saving money, there are ways to pull it off. I don't care about politican salaries, I think they should be paid well. The dividend income thing in particular bothers me. If you are gainfully employed and earn $100,000, you will pay much more in tax than a rich brat who has $500,000, invests it and earns $100,000 in dividend income. Every dollar should be taxed equally. Until we do that, any anti-teacher action is just a smokescreen to fool us, as far as I am concerned... and it works well.
mcdreamy
Moderator
I concur. I'm tired of paying huge tax dineros/benefits to a person with a 4 year undergrad and 1 year teacher college. Their salary is commiserate with their education, their perks are not.
I fully support their 2 year pay freeze. I support reducing their sick days to 10, with no carry over. I also support designating the profession as an essential service, with no strikes permitted.
In fact, I don't see much wrong with Bill 115
And I'm not even truly affected by their cries of woe - we are busily shopping for universities.There is a huge difference between what the shareholders of a corporation determine as fair compensation than of civil servants being paid by tax $$. Executive compensation based off of performance. The CEO's in Canada that received bailouts, from what I recall, didn't receive bonuses, our if they did recently, they were caused to pay it back.
For me, I try hard to climb the corporate ladder. It upsets me that I am paying taxes that go to someones elses pension, when I am unable to afford to contribute to my own....
I actually was a teacher, before becoming disgusted with the way the govt treats the education professionals in Alberta.
Made more money as a rookie tradesman, and that's not great.
For all the talk of "Childeren First", they sure didn't want to fund it.
Anyone who thinks teachers and other education professionals are overpaid have absolutely no idea of how much they actually do.
Made more money as a rookie tradesman, and that's not great.
For all the talk of "Childeren First", they sure didn't want to fund it.
Anyone who thinks teachers and other education professionals are overpaid have absolutely no idea of how much they actually do.
wretchedotis
New member
Since when do shareholders detemine coorprate bonus structure?
That's board of directors level.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
FightingForFamily
Member
The teacher's unions act like my ex wife with their sense of entitlement and disconnect from reality. Oh wait, my ex wife is in their union... hmm... explains a few things.
My new partner works in labour relations and gets a first hand glimpse of all the goings on "under the hood" when big powerful unions are involved and how they manipulate the system to suck money out of it.
Thus you have general labourers who push meal carts around yet make $50k per year. When they screw up (they only way they probably can) by not showing up to work or being consistently late, when they get a written warning, their union forces the matter to arbitration which costs the organization tens of thousands of dollars. All because a cart pusher can't be on time when they are already paid insanely high.
Unions are ruining labour in this country.
My new partner works in labour relations and gets a first hand glimpse of all the goings on "under the hood" when big powerful unions are involved and how they manipulate the system to suck money out of it.
Thus you have general labourers who push meal carts around yet make $50k per year. When they screw up (they only way they probably can) by not showing up to work or being consistently late, when they get a written warning, their union forces the matter to arbitration which costs the organization tens of thousands of dollars. All because a cart pusher can't be on time when they are already paid insanely high.
Unions are ruining labour in this country.
Who are elected by the shareholders. If the shareholders don't like what the board is doing, they boot them out.
Exquizique
New member
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