Support Variation

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wildrose

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I will try to keep this as brief as possible but will give a bit of history as I am new here.

Married 24 years....2 adult children......stay at home mom.......ex's income $95,000 plus bonus annually.

March 25/04.........I leave hubby and move out on my own
April 04.......I move in with a roommate
May 04.....File application for spousal support and was awarded $2000.00 per month indefinately with no stipulation other than it may be reviewed if the circumstances of either party changes
Dec 04......no circumstances have changed but ex wants a review, his lawyer tells him to leave it alone as there is no reason for review and he could be sorry as he was not paying the full amount he could be paying if it went back to court
July 05.....ex wants another review because I am now seeing another man.......other man has his own house.....does not live with me.......ex is once again told to leave it alone by his legal council.....ex threatens to sue me for all payments made back to May 04
July 05.......I get tired of his crap and apply with maintenance enforcement as ex is habitually late with payments....sometimes as long as a month or more
Sept 06......due to a reorganization in ex's workplace, he looses his job. Ex files application to have spousal support cancelled. Application is denied as ex is still receiving income from former employer until Jan 07.
Jan 07.....Ex has now refiled to have spousal support cancelled. Ex has not found other employment other than he has invested 35,000 in a coffee vending machine business. He says he cannot gain employment due to the fact he is 52 years of age and is seeking a high level management position. He also has other skills

Ex's net worth is $500,000.00. He owns two rental properties plus the house he resides in. He has remarried and his spouse has an income of approx. $70,000. He is supporting his new wife's two adult children who are not paying room and board to live with them. These two children are currently unemployed.

What are my rights? What are my chances of loosing my support? I am a student, trying to upgrade my education to gain a higher earning potential and at the moment am living in a community of 1300 people where the most I can make at a job here in town is $7.00/hr...max 20 hrs per week. My schooling will allow me to run a home accounting business which there is great demand for in a farming community.

Any ideas or comments???? Please let me know if there are any other questions.
 
My advice, get a life stop depending on your ex. he's your ex not your ticket to a pension. People like you are whmen become dead eat dads. This is about supporting chilren not exs wifes. hopefully one day judges will realize were in the 21 centry. Why don't you get a fricking job ans support your ex.. he did loose his job. If I was that other man I would dump you since your a money hungry B---h
 
Wow! That was constructive advise..............was hoping for feedback that was just a little bit more intelligent.
 
Take a Moderator Advise

Take a Moderator Advise

Rather than counting on the foolish comments from useless members,take a moderator (Legal velocity, Andrea)advise.They can show you the right legal path.And don't feel offended with some pro-men comments.You gave your 100% to make a home and was unable to focus on your career.Now its your turn to demand back.I strongly suspect your ex planned his termination from his job.Anyways......................

Good Luck
 
What about 50% of the property?

What about 50% of the property?

Hey what happened to your 50% share in properties.I am sure he has earned a lot of RESP's claim your 50% share in that too....:cool:
 
Again get a life. Pro men..You say there's work available at 7.00 an hour. Well, what are you waiting for? Isn't that better than nothing. And as far as loosing his job, why question it..he lost it? Move on. You did find another guy already, which makes me think you were most likely having an affair on him. Did you fail to mention that.
Support yourself stand up and be a real women.
let the guy be.. i'm sure if you had to give 2000.00 a month to your ex's your story would change..
 
sufferer said:
Hey what happened to your 50% share in properties.I am sure he has earned a lot of RESP's claim your 50% share in that too....:cool:
Click to expand...

We split most of the property 50/50 other than our matrimonial home. He decided he wasn't going to move so we did the split based on the tax assessmenet of the year before. 8 days after the agreement was done he put the house on the market and sold it for $15,000 more than the price we had agreed on. Live and learn. He also kept approx. 75% of the household contents as when I moved, it was into a very small residence and I didn't have the room for anything nor did I have the money for storage. So I let it go. Anything I did ask for, I had to fight for.

And to OB1.......NO, I didn't have an affair. I was too busy washing my ex's clothes, cooking his meals and raising his children. Maybe you shouldn't spout off your mouth before you are aware of all the facts!
 
Is there anyone out there that can give me some constructive advice? I really don't know what to expect when this goes back to court in a few days.
 
Basically:

- you have rights to try to maintain your support
- yor ex has rights to try and reduce or terminate it
- what a judge will do is anyone's guess...

You can search this site for Spousal Support Variation. Also, you can go to CanLaw database of court cases and search there. You can also look at the divorce act too. All of these things aare online. I think LV posted a very good iterpretation of the act regarding "needs" and "means".

Anytime there is a material change on either party, you can have an order revisited. It may, or may not, get changed. That's the big crap-shoot.

If you reassurances, that is one thing that is hard to give. Since the laws are grey and the mood of the judge really decides everything anyway.

So, we must turn to DD's three rules of family law:

1) what does the law say
2) what do you think will happen
3) what most likely will happen

#1 - The Law
The laws are all over the map regarding spousal support. Basically it is all about needs and means. You have a need, he has the mean (well, used to have the means). LV can probably post some eliquant interpretation of the law.

#2 - What Do You Think Will Happen
Well, what do you think will happen? If it was me, I would think that support would not change. Why? Long term marriage. $2000 a month. Not bad.

#3 - What Will Happen
In most situations the gap between 2-3 is wide. Why? Well, people expect common sense and fair play in Family Law. For example, that gap is extremely wide for Father's getting custody and access. Most think they should get 50-50 access, until they go to court and get 10%. BUT, in the case of spousal support recipients - the gap is narrow. If you want $2000 a month, you'll get it.... You r ex on the other hand, his gap between 2-3 is wide. Why? Well, he is a payor. So he would expect it to go down or stop when he lsot his job. He would epect some relief after paying for years. But he will be in for a shock #3).
 
I re-read you post.

May 04 - you say you were awarded 2000. Is that a court ordered amount, or a settlement amount.

On Dec 04 your ex filed for a change. His "Matcerial change" would simply be time. Not a great reason, hence his lawyer's advice to leave it alone. But you state he is not paying the full amount. He is not paying the full $2000. Or is he not paying what you think he should be paying?

Jul 05 - another material change... but his lawyer was right since you are not co-habitating, the order would not be changed since it is not really a material change (interesting event none-the-less, but not legal).

Sep 06 - okay, that's a real material change - losses job

Jan 07 - another material change (losses income)

Just some advice. What annoys people is that you mention your ex's net worth. Yet, we know you got half of everything. So, is your net worth also $500K? Or close to it. Also, you state your ex's personal situation (new wife) and some financial info about his spouse. Now, I know when we are dealing with SS, all people's income that are involved are considered. But really, should someone else be paying you if your ex is unemployed? Finally, if you were still married, and your husband lost his job, wouldn't it be the two of you working together to struggle though it. But in this country, it is easier to hammer the ex. And I think that is where OB1 is coming from.
 
Thank you for your response and I will try to clarify a few points.

No, my net worth is not 50K. At the time of divorce my net worth was approximately 40K after all was settled and I was awarded $2000 per month in an agreement made and it was made official in our divorce finalization. This number was a number agreed on in a meeting in my lawyer's office with my ex and his lawyer. According to the schedule that my lawyer showed me, he was responsible to pay almost $4000 per month according to his income but I felt that was unfair and settled on half of that. It was what I needed to meet my monthly obligations and get back on my feet. I will also say that a good part of that 40K net worth was tied up in RRSP's and I am not able to withdraw.

At this point, over the last three years.....I have had two major surgeries and have made a move to a smaller town to try to lower my living expenses. I am currently trying to upgrade my education so that I can become self sufficient and have enough earning power to support myself.

My ex on the other hand has been able to increase his net worth to 500K plus in the last three years as he has had the income to purchase two revenue properties and boost his RRSP contributions by almost 30K. As well, he has purchased a new home to live in.

I have not been able to do this due to restrictions on job skills, as I don't have many and am trying to improve my situation in that area. My ex has now purchased a cash business where he is self employed and his income cannot be traced. He has basically gone into semi-retirement and he is applying for jobs he is not qualified for in hopes of not getting another job.

In the recent court application, we were told we had to include all combined household income which only covers half of our monthly expenses. My SO works as a labourer and he pays half of the monthly expenses with very little left over. I am relying on SS at this point to finish my schooling and become self sufficient. I have been searching for a job in our town and so far have come up with a job that offers 12 hours per week at 7.00 per hour. I'm running out of choices.
 
Sorry, the above post should have read my net worth is not 500K. My net worth right now is only about 30K as I have had to use any liquid cash I had to live.
 
wildrose said:
Is there anyone out there that can give me some constructive advice? I really don't know what to expect when this goes back to court in a few days.
Click to expand...

Hi Wildrose... I usually just lurk here... you may find a little more supportive help over here...
 
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OK... the url has been banned... please email me at and I can put you in touch with a very supportive group of women experiencing divorce
 
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Well, you can go to court, explain what you explained here, and see what happens.

If you need emotional support, there is a support forum here, also and others. Regarding the financial and legal stuff, you don't have much to worry about. You'll win.
 
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To Decentdad

So your feeling is that even though he has lost his job and has purchased a part-time cash business and is wanting to cancel my SS that I will win in court? Why do I feel like I don't have a chance? Are you basing this on past experience or legal experience? I have a feeling it will all come down to the mood of the judge.

As of this morning my ex has dragged both of our grown children into the mix. My daughter has told me that I am picking on her father even though it was his application to the courts over and over, I am just responding. And my son is now telling everyone that another man is spending his dad's money. My significant other has his own job and pays his own bills. He can't afford to pay my bills too!
 
I am not trying to pick on you, but really, if he is no longer making the same amount of money as he was when you split up, he probably really can't afford to keep paying you the same amount as he was.

Have you considered working the 20hrs a week, and going to school at the same time? I am sure that can be done - and then you can be contributing to your own support? And have his 'obligation' reduced? It's great that you are going back to school, and want to become self-sufficient, the greatest fault I find with SS is that women seem to believe they 'deserve' it, and think they should never have to take care of themselves.

I don't think it's fair at all that his new spouse's income is considered - why should she help support you, if you aren't helping to support yourself?

I also have to wonder - if even your own children aren't behind you, doesn't that make you think twice?
Are you being fed lines by society, your lawyer and the media that make you feel like he owes you something?
Wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you were indeed paying your own bills, and making your own way in life? Just some questions, cause I know I feel great about being independent post-divorce!!!
 
Wildrose,

I agree with DD. If you go to court, you will win - if winning means that you will continue to receive SS. The amount will be up to the judge and the flip of his/her coin.

Your marriage was long-term and you sacrificed your career to raise a family. I commend you on your efforts to become self-sufficient. I'm sure that you would rather be 100% self sufficient rather than still being dependent on your EX-husband.

If your ex has "lost" his job and he earned a substantial income, then you might argue that he is intentionally under-employed to avoid his support obligations. But, who knows what his counter-argument might be. The reality is that you are no longer a family and I wonder how you know his $500k net worth and the salary of his wife... are you sure about those numbers? Or, are they gossip numbers?

In any case, I would suggest that you pursue the SS but spend more time and effort in becoming self sufficient.

Best of luck to you.
 
Before I answer your question Wildrose, some filler. There are many of us who have been through the system for, what seems like, decades. There are some of us who go even further and research laws, cases, read all the newspaper articles, follow forums, etc. There are some of us who want to go even further and push for Divorce reform.

Again, before I answer your question, knowing the above, lets play devil's advocate. And lets weed through all the kids stuff, the emotional stuff, his spouse, your partner stuff, blah blah. Just the financial facts.

When you split 3 years ago, you got half... and he got half. His financial income and your sweat equity are all split even-steven. But, you're at a disadvantage in this enterprise called marriage since your career does not exist, while his was allowed to continue. So, in compensation for that fact, and the fact you're both alone, you BOTH agree on $2K a month support. Done.

So, post divorce (i.e. no longer a couple or responsible for each other in the big sense)... his equity went up, to $500K... but he lost his job. Your equity went down to $30k, but you are employed. Well, such is life. Your equity could have gone up and his down... and so on.

Now, your ex has the liability (obligation) to pay a monthly fee of $2K. It is not like a car payment that could be reduced, halted, skipped or for that matter, he could even return the car. Nope. It's a support order. His only means to elminate this is to a) ask you to stop it... or b) take you to court and convince some judge to reduce or stop it. Failing a)... he must go b). That's the law in this country. Agree or court. There are no b/w rules in the Divorce Act (so to speak). So by saying "I'm just the repsondent" means you opted for "plan b". Well, you left him no choice.

Your role here is the banker. You are basically saying: I'm not allowing you to return the car, skip payments, reduce payments, re-amortize the loan or anything else that makes sense. I want my money.. go get it.

Now, do you see why we lose our minds when dealing with the Canadian Divorce system. No one. No where, is allowed to negotiate or act like this expect in Divorce. The bankers run the system (the support recipients) and the system allows for completely biased negotiations in favor of the banker. Heck, you can't even go to a competative bank for better rates.

So, now to answer your question: you'll probably end up getting an increase. Just call it a hunch.
 
Just to answer a few of the questions that have been raised. I do know what his spouses income is and what his net worth is because the last application he filed with the court required him to disclose a full financial statement......assets and liabilities and so therefore I have seen in writing what his net worth is. These are not "gossip" numbers.

As far as my children and their feelings. They see their Dad on an almost daily basis and I only see them less than once a month because we live more than two hours away from each other. My children were very fortunate growing up and never wanted for much which was our fault. They now seem to follow the path that leads them to material things and that is why they are siding with their father. Their opinion is I'm picking on their Dad and purposely trying to make him miserable. That is not the case. I am trying to struggle to become self-sufficient by going to school to upgrade my education and I would love nothing more than to tell him I don't want or need his money. I would love nothing more than to have him totally out of my life but at this point I am not in a financial position to do so. My SO and I split all household expenses 50/50 and I have obligations that working 20 hours per week at $7.00 per hour just won't cover. Not by a long shot and we don't live lavishly. My car is paid for (by me) and we live in a manufactured home in a small town. I wouldn't call that living at the ritz.

As far as the case that is pending in court. I don't want an increase, I just want what was agreed upon in the beginning. As far as an even split in the beginning, yes we did split things financially 50/50 other than our matrimonial home which he lied his way through to gain a profit. Also, any material things I asked for from the house were not delivered as they were supposed to be. Most things were substituted with sub-standard replacements that he took upon himself to give to me and that really sucked. I ended up with approx. $5000.00 worth of material things from the house, he kept the rest. Because I had not taken photos of the things in the house I had no proof as to what those things were. We lived in a 3500 sq ft home and it was full of top quality items re furniture, etc. I got ripped off, plain and simple. Now all I ask is that he honor his obligation until I can get my diploma and then he can carry on with whatever it is he does. All I want is our court order upheld legally. So far it has cost me dearly and he has manipulated the children as well. It's like beating a dead horse and how do you complete with that?
 
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