SS and OTS

G

GoDiegoGo

New member
In my case, with 2 degrees already, my ex worked in her computer field for 5 years out of the 7 year marriage, making $40k/year. 2 of those years were maternity leave, however they still count towards time worked. She was then let go from her job.

This is when she started working for me, getting paid $30k/year to be my attendant care provider from my accident (mostly handling my meals and housekeeping). I have proof that she continued to look for other jobs during this time, however in he mean time she had the benefit of being paid well to stay home.

This means that she worked and was paid for the whole 7 year marriage. 5 years in her computer field and 2 years as a service care provider. Once we separated, this job no longer existed.

she claims she had to give up her career to support me, however I believe this is countered by the fact that she was fired from her job before taking the new job and was still applying for other jobs during this time.

Would you consider the 2nd job a "sacrifice for the family" entitling her to spousal support? I would assume it is more of someone accepting a different job, which may not be their career, so that they are not jobless and can still help support the family. She couldn't have lost 2 years of her career job, when she didn't have the job to begin with and was still applying throughout.

Right now I'm ordered to pay interim full table cs, plus ss, and all extracurricular/s7 fees. We have Joint custody with 50/50 access.

2 other questions:

1 - Once a proper income is imputed on her at trial, will it be based on future support only or will it be backed dated to the date of separation? Can I recover all the extra support I've paid based on the interim order?

2 - Based on the judge's advice, I sent my ex my worse case offer to settle (impute her at only full time min wage) 2 years ago which she declined. If she plans to accept it right before trial, can I decline it and still get credit for it. My concern is that I've been overpaying for 2 years based on her delay and it's cost me lots of time and money continuing to fight in court over this time.

Just to get this over with, I've recently sent another OTS, which was declined.
- I'll continue my full table cs and ss payments for 3 years.
- I'll also pay $15,000 as a lump sum ss payment. (she claims her Computer Science degree (7 years old) is outdated. Even though she recently got different retraining, this lump sum would allow for more schooling)
- Then, after the 3 years, she'll be imputed with the greater of her actual income or full time min wage and offset cs will be based on that moving forward.

I think this offer was ridiculous, but I'm baffled that it was declined. It seems like February Trial is my only hope to finish this, but I'm just really hoping a nice cost judgment will be made to set an example of her unreasonableness.

Any other suggestions/advice?
 
You, or your insurance company, paid her 30.00/hr to look after you so you would have deducted CPP and tax and remitted it monthly to CRA. In other words, you wife was on your payroll. Or, was your wife paid directly by the insurance company? It seems to me that she lost the personal service care attendant job as a result of the separation.

She therefore lost 2 jobs in the time-frame you refer to. Do her tax records reflect the 2nd job?

It seems to me that might strengthen her claim for SS. As he 2nd job was not at "arms length" it may or may not be considered for imputation of income.

This could backfire on you.
 
There is no deducting CPP and taxes, as she wasn't on my payroll. The insurance pays for it. Now that my ex no longer does the services, I have to hire others to do it. Same thing, no taxes or CPP... Service providers bill, and insurance pays it.

She definitely lost the personal attendant job upon separation. This wasn't her permanent/career job. It was a temp $30k/year job, during the time she was fired from her job and while she looked for a new job.

Not sure how this could backfire on me. Worst case, she worked 5 out of 7 years. Best case, she worked all 7 years. Either way, SS should be hard pressed given her education and work experience. Although the income was tax free and didn't show up on taxes, the insurance and my ex all agree how much was paid to her.

My only benefit is that I sent an offer that included a good deal of SS. Should the trial judge decide some SS is due, I should still be saved and have a cost judgment.

I'm curious what you feel a reasonable, if any, ss offer should be and why.
 
Well I think you have to establish her past income.

It could be argued that instead of hiring outside help the two of you agreed that she would stay home and look after you, thus keeping the money in the family coffers. As your ex was not taxed on the money that came into the family I do not believe you would be able to say that she was "employed" by the insurance company to look after you. Imputing income, if you were successful in this, would likely be based on money she earned outside of the home.

I don't think you can have it both ways.
 
We did agree she would do the work and be paid for it. She also proved that she didn't want this job to be permanent, by continuing to pursue other jobs.

The insurance met with my ex and has it on record that my ex did the work for me and was paid for this work. Whether taxed or not, I don't believe it would be hard to show this was indeed a job she was paid to do.

Outside the home she made $40k/year for 5 years.
Inside the home she made $30k/year for 2 years.

In your case, if the 2 years didn't count, she then worked for 5 years, got laid off, and stayed home for 2 years while looking for another job.

Do you still think she is entitled to ss? Take a guess on how much and why?
 
How many years were you married? I can't remember.

Is the care you require 24-7?

On top of looking after you she also looked after your children or did you hire nanny?

Did she work outside the home after you started to receive disability?

There are many, many factors to consider.
 
We were married 7 years.

My ex was mainly paid to make my meals and do the housekeeping. There were a few other things like pick up meds and clean my equipment once a month.

When we were together, I was still taking care of the kids all day, taking them to school/park, giving them baths, putting them to bed, etc. No nanny was needed then, and no nanny is needed now.

She was still working when I was injured. She was fired 9 months later. During those 9 months, she received her work income plus my benefits income.
 
I'm a bit confused. You are disabled yet you were able to bathe your children? So you are not totally disabled?

I also don't understand about how your wife was paid. Did her pay from the insurance get paid to her and put into her own bank account?
 
Yes I'm disabled, and yes I can care for the kids. I don't think that's in question. I do what I can, and get help where needed.

My ex was paid for her services, which was deposited into our joint account. Just like when we were both working and our pay went into our joint account.

If you have any guess about whether ss should be paid and how much I would love to hear it.
 
Good for you diego. I am sure you are an excellent Dad. Reason I asked was I was trying to differentiate in my mind what role your ex played in your marriage (traditional vs non-traditional).

The information posted by dinkyface might also be relevant and therefore determine the SS amount. Without knowing the details of your disability insurance it is a crap shoot for me to predict the amount of SS you invariably will be ordered to pay.
 
arabian said:
On the other thread there is relevant information posted by dinkyface and dadtobebad.
Click to expand...

Each case is different and needs to be looked into.

As that article mentions, if there is a tort claim, then there may be a portion that would be included in property in which case the spouse can make claim to it.

Another case is when you are injured during the marriage and never received any income replacement. If you then settle afterwards, a spouse can make a claim to any income replacement that was repaid for the period between when the accident happened and the date of separation.

Another example is if you are receiving some sort of life insurance, CPP old age pension, etc (none sickness/disability related), a spouse can make a claim to part of it.

My case is more straight forward. It is only an Accident Benefits claim, no personal injury/tort claim, and I've always received monthly payments. Support is paid based on my income replacement benefits. Any future settlement would have two parts: Future care costs, which would be excluded just as it is now, and Future Income Replacement, which I would have to invest and the gains earned would be considered my income for cs purposes.
 
I agree that a situation such as your situation has to be examined carefully.

Did you not receive any Workers' Compensation-sort of benefit or was that coverage not mandatory in your province for the work you performed? (just curious).

I would think that any lump-sum income replacement would be relevant. As your marriage was 7 yrs and not 37 then a lump sum amount from this settlement would possibly be reasonable (unless you want to pay her a % in perpetuity - I think not). Markets go up and down and would it not be difficult to determine future income for SS calculation? What I'm getting at is, what would keep you from under-investing the settlement monies?

A very interesting subject. I hope others with some experience with this will chime in.
 
No WSIB for me, just a single vehicle accident. No third party involved hence no tort claim.

Insurance now pays me an income replacement and pays for my care costs. That's it.

An ex is not entitled to your future income, unless support is involved. In my case, the judge already said I would have to properly/reasonably invest the future income replacement and the interest gained would be my income for support purposes. If I under-invest then my ex could bring me back to court showing how the income could be better invested and impute my income.
 
GoDiegoGo said:
No WSIB for me, just a single vehicle accident. No third party involved hence no tort claim.

Insurance now pays me an income replacement and pays for my care costs. That's it.

An ex is not entitled to your future income, unless support is involved. In my case, the judge already said I would have to properly/reasonably invest the future income replacement and the interest gained would be my income for support purposes. If I under-invest then my ex could bring me back to court showing how the income could be better invested and impute my income.
Click to expand...

To be honest I really don't know what your ex could or couldn't do about the investment of a settlement claim. You would have to seek legal advice for that one.

I do know that the whole matter could be litigated for years to come unless a satisfactory settlement is achieved. As you have guaranteed income for the rest of your life, as you should, I do know there will always be lawyers willing to help you unload some of your money. Not many people have guaranteed income for life.

I'd settle this thing quickly if I were you. Money spent on lawyers would be better spent on children's education.
 
I don't have any lawyer fees, but I believe the judges have made this point clear in our 3 settlement conferences and 5 motions. My ex has tried everything to go after my settlement. We have been told exactly what portion my ex is entitled to and how I have to invest it in order to determine my income post settlement for cs purposes.

Not sure what you mean by litigating for years to come unless a satisfactory settlement is achieved. My ex is not entitled to any settlement, simply offset cs based on my new income.

The issue is whether my ex is entitled to any spousal support. She worked all 7 years of marriage. She lost her career job on her own, but lost her temp job due to the separation.

Based on her having a minimum wage salary, the guidelines say no spousal is due. I believe no spousal is due, yet I offered 4 years total plus $15k lump sum just to get this over with. That seems overly fair to me, and now trial seems like my best option.
 
Sometimes trial is unavoidable. Do keep us posted with the outcome as it is an interesting case.

Hope by this time next year everything is over with.
 
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