Spousal support?

H

Helpmyspouse

New member
My case went to settlement conference. Just some background. Married 19 years when separated. Two kids and I have full custody. Spouse refuses meds for mental Illness rendering him not functioning and unemployed. Because of this he is considered special party and appointed a public guardian trustee. His only source of income is 2000 per month from a trust fund. I work full time earning 70000 per year. My lawyer said my ex spouse is entitled to spousal but the question is how much. He said I have two choices. 1? Go to trial and spend 60, 000 in legal fees and good chance judge will still order I pay him spousal. Or. 2. Make an offer for an amount for 10 years but there is still chance he can come back for more spousal after. Both options suck and I'm upset. Do you see any other favourable option for me? Can I stipulate a duration and make it final.
 
Hello,

You can stipulate and suggest any arrangement you want. Just talk to your lawyer about the pro's and con's of any suggestion.

Yes, you do owe spousal support. You should definitely try to get an end date or a full amount payment. If your spouse receives legal aid, you might be looking at a long time and expensive trial and still lose your shirt.

Yes paying sucks, but best to get it over with (one time payment) or light at the end of the tunnel (end date) so that you can get on with your life and rebuild.
 
I believe CS is calculated on both incomes. Basically both owe an amount of CS and the one with higher income pays the difference. Since OP has full custody the CS would be reduced significantly. They would still need to contribute to the expense when kids are at ex's as well as S7.

SS is payed to equalize both spouses incomes, since they are going from dual to single income.
 
Asphenaz said:
I believe CS is calculated on both incomes. Basically both owe an amount of CS and the one with higher income pays the difference. Since OP has full custody the CS would be reduced significantly. They would still need to contribute to the expense when kids are at ex's as well as S7.

SS is payed to equalize both spouses incomes, since they are going from dual to single income.
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She has full custody therefore he would owe her full table. Hes not working because he refuses medication. He would be responsible for cs but my question is more to understand the lawyers reasoning that someone who refuses medication is therefore purposely underemployed but is getting out of it. Therefore how is the cs he would owe considered in the amount of ss she will be ordered to pay.
 
You can put the numbers into mysupportcalculator.ca

If he can't work, his income is either zero or the $24000 he actually gets. Therefore he may pay 0-$360/month in child support. With her income, she'll be paying around $1k/month in spousal for up to 19 years. May be longer with a disability, regardless of what treatment you think he should get. Either way, there's a big difference in the amounts owed.
 
@rockscan : sorry I miss understood. In the calculations my lawyer did, they were treated independently and one subtracted from the other.

Only taxable income should be used to calculate support. ODSP should not be used, neither should unemployment insurance. I'm not sure how trust fund money is used.

As for the meds, from my trial, it's a non-issue. Judges and lawyers will say they are not doctors so can't judge on if he needs them or not. If he has a doctors note that says he can't work, judges will accept that.

You have to prove 'unwillingness to work', has he applied for jobs, are their available jobs in his area that he 'can' do, has he applied for any kind of retraining etc...

You can try to argue to get imputed income for the sake of the calculation. My ex who is on disability, doesn't take her meds etc... got 5000$ assigned and that just because it was how much she could earn a year without affecting her ODSP. As well as showing that she had put almost 5000$ in less than 6 months into RESP's.
 
Thanks for all your replies. I've been losing a lot of sleep over this. It's tragic how my marriage ended. One day he just started showing signs of psychosis. He became violent and choked me in front of our children. Police charged him and imposed a no contact order. Kids and I had to move in with my parents because it was not safe to live with him. When it became obvious he was not going to take meds (he doesn't think he is sick, typical mentally I'll behaviour) I filed for separation. He was in the family home while I paid all the bills and he just lounged around for a year not working, not seeking medical care, and not attending supervised access visits with the children. I was sinking in debt so I got a court order to force the sale if our home. This is 6 years ago! Already spent $120 000 in legal fees. I'm still living with my parents and he is homeless. It really sucks that after all I had to do to keep my children stable, function to keep my job, clean and pack up a home of 20 years worth of belongings to sell it all by myself , endured an assault from him, to pour salt on a wound I have to pay him. Let me just also mention that in the year he made the home go to shit and it was a hoarders haven. We lost 150,000 because it wouldn't sell like the other comparables. Anyway, his lawyer is a snake with zero compassion that I am left to raise two young kids on my own with no house. His lawyer has asked for a lump sum of $290 000 in spousal. That would leave me penniless and destitute with kids. I would be homeless. I would never be able to get myself off my feet But that seems to be okay for his asshole lawyer. Karma is a bitch is the ONLY comfort I get from lawyers taking advantage of my broken family that neither one of us intentionally caused. We would still be married today for it not for him getting sick and refusing medical care.
 
Hopefully you have the services of a lawyer who deals exclusively in family law (you can't afford to pay for someone's learning curve).

SS is totally different than CS. Best to educate yourself on all the nuances. First of all, SS is not automatic. The person seeking SS has to provide their entitlement. None of anything you have posted has, in my opinion, guaranteed entitlement. There are many factors to consider.

How many years did your spouse work. When did he quit working? Has he evidence to prove that he looked for work while unemployed? Meeting provincial standards for welfare does not automatically entitle someone for SS (especially in Ontario where welfare is the norm). Refusing to take one's meds is not proof of entitlement.

You need to ensure that regular review dates are incorporated into your agreement if, and when, it is determined that entitlement has been shown. For those review dates you can and should specify many things along with increasing imputed income.

If you spent 120,000.00 already in legal fees there is something wrong.... really bad lawyer or are you a really bad client... or both?
 
He was not mentally ill doing the marriage. He worked during the marriage but nothing stable. He bounced around jobs and was mostly self employed. When he just started showing signs of psychosis like schizofrenia out of the blue everything fell apart. He has not been looking for work as he has paranoid delusions. His delusions tell him medication is poison. If he doesn't take meds he remains sick. It's a vicious circle. My lawyer deals exclusively in family law. My exspouse has changed 8 lawyers. He has hired and fired them. When his delusions tell him the lawyer is working against him, he fires him. This has caused massive delays and increase in my legal fees because Everytime a new lawyer is on board, we start again so he can be brought up to date. He also had been stalling. Not filing responses, etc. It has been a nightmare. Things only started moving when he was deemed special party and appointed an opgt. Is being appointed a opgt automatically deem him entitled? If so, I have no chance trying to fight this. Maybe that's why my lawyer says if we go to trial we would lose. I'm so done.
 
Well the other side (Ontario Public Guardian) certainly has a bigger war chest than you do .... or do they. Legal Aid has to get permission to extend matters and I don't think they typically take on spousal support. I don't know much about Public Guardian and how they go about retaining lawyers and limits on their hours etc.) However, I still don't think this is a cut-and-dried situation where you simply cave.

Something doesn't seem right to me. Perhaps others can chime in with their thoughts?

If the other side has had a revolving door of legal-aid-paid-for lawyers I'd be right pissed and would be looking for some compensation for the 8 lawyers they have gone through (as long as you were not deemed to be at fault).

Interesting case. Thanks for sharing with us (sucks for you I'm sure).
 
More info is needed but I would think it's almost certain ss will be ordered, it's just a matter of how long. One side makes 70k and the other is deemed not capable of taking care of themselves, homeless with no money. She may be able to impute an income for child support, to reduce what she has to pay, but that could be tough given the situation.

I would keep making offers to settle with different options for lump sum and monthly with a specific end date. You should have an idea on how long you may be on the hook for. (Rule of 65?)
 
sounds to me like her lawyer is the only one benefiting here (along with his buddies in the legal aid office)

If the spouse has been indigent for all these years then one has to wonder about the heft legal bills right?

I think a fresh legal opinion is long overdue. Sounds like legal funds are indefinite.
 
The judge should take into consideration that you have custody of the children and because of his mental illness you always will. The judge will look at many factors when determining what is fair and just and in the best interests of your children. It is not in the children’s best interest to make the custodial parent penniless or homeless. A judge should take this into consideration when deciding whether or not spousal support if any should be paid by a custodial parent.
 
Yeah. I’d fire lawyer and self represent and just let the judge decide for once and for all and be done!
It’s going to be what it is
Offer whatever the calculator suggests for 10yr (half the time married) and that allows him time to either medication or get a job.
However, isn’t it like at 20yr marriage you’re screwed for life with SS (that’s if the other never worked a day in their life together tho... )


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I may be off, but his 2 k a month is net. I'd be factoring it in as a gross. I.e. 36-40k.

Also, I can't see how you ended up with a bill in the 120 k range. Someone is taking advantage of you. The assets aren't there to warrant the charge. Your rate is higher then the high end lawyers at Bay and Wellington.

Maybe I saw a typo but your supposed spousal seemed very high. I'd be telling them to hit the road.

I'd be curious whose paying for his lawyer. Then you can develop a plan.

Hope this helps,
 
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