Spousal Support

[Berner_Faith]

I have not referred 2 or 3. You are confusing the posters. I have posted the link for Divorce Financial Analysts and it is a totally non biased group that gives accreditation to Divorce Professionals.
I am sure both parties suffer, and there are cases where the payor is paying a high amount, but I am not giving specific cases because there are cases when the reverse is also true. I was stating a statistic......
Where are your references that majority of the time the payors live in smaller houses and cant afford the things the recipient can??????????

Go back to your post where you stated the statistic and link... Click on the link you posted and scroll to the bottom... There you will find 3 references, 2 which are strickly about women. I am not confusing posters, I am looking at the link you posted to support your gender specific statistic.

I never once claimed I had a statistic, therefore I did not post any references. It was my opinion, hence the 'as far as I can see'

 

[momforever1956]

Go back to your post where you stated the statistic and link... Click on the link you posted and scroll to the bottom... There you will find 3 references, 2 which are strickly about women. I am not confusing posters, I am looking at the link you posted to support your gender specific statistic.

I never once claimed I had a statistic, therefore I did not post any references. It was my opinion, hence the 'as far as I can see'

I am not responsible for other articles in the STATS. I was asked to provide stats and I did , from a not biased organization but one that is accredited.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion and it depends on your vantage point. I am a professional and was married to a professional and my social circle happens to be mostly professional, ( not bragging, stating facts), and what you suggest as your opinion isnt a reality in my world.
I know of many payors that live in mansions and their spouce who is the recipient lives in the smaller homes you describe.
So in fact what you see and what I see are very different worlds.

 

[arabian]

I believe Moms AND Dads suffer with divorce. Providing full financial disclosure is important. There will always be disparity as no formula is fail proof.

The current laws provide avenue for either party to go to court and apply for SS to be reviewed if there is provable change of circumstances.

Thankfully current legislation protects SS recipients from ex's who go on to reproduce and want to use the new family responsibilities as an excuse for not paying ex SS. Of course you are going to have financial difficulties if you go on to start a new family in this situation. Do I feel sorry for them? No.

 

[Berner_Faith]

It wasn't another article, it was the sources from which the article you posted was based off of. You obviously didn't read the whole article or know your sources before posting information. Anyone can simply type in a google search and find what they want to try and back up their point, but if one does not know their sources it really deflates their arguement.

The standard of living can certainly go both ways. But if one wants to earn more, one has to work more. The difference between a payor and a recipient is that the more a payor works and makes, the more the recipient receives, however if the recipient works more and makes more, the payor receives no benefit, so how does that level off the standard of living?

 

[arabian]

The difference between a payor and a recipient is that the more a payor works and makes, the more the recipient receives, however if the recipient works more and makes more, the payor receives no benefit, so how does that level off the standard of living?

I believe this might be the case in CS but unless you have negotiated this in your SS agreement it is not necessarily the case.

Again, SS is negotiated (not like CS which is automatic). Some people have a % difference in their incomes negotiated in their SS others do not and simply get x/month or year.

 

[Berner_Faith]

I believe Moms AND Dads suffer with divorce. Providing full financial disclosure is important. There will always be disparity as no formula is fail proof.

The current laws provide avenue for either party to go to court and apply for SS to be reviewed if there is provable change of circumstances.

Thankfully current legislation protects SS recipients from ex's who go on to reproduce and want to use the new family responsibilities as an excuse for not paying ex SS. Of course you are going to have financial difficulties if you go on to start a new family in this situation. Do I feel sorry for them? No.

But what about those who receive SS and go on to reproduce and use the excuse they must look after the new family, thus can't work to support themselves?

It works both ways and there are always going to be people who milk it for all its worth, simply because the current laws say they can. Long term marriages such as your and others on this forum is what SS was originated for, it was not meant to act as a gravy boat for younge, able bodied people to take advantage of their ex spouse.

 

[Rioe]

It's like any other system in existence. Welfare, student loans, criminal justice, you name it. It exists so that people who need it can get it, however the cost of this is that sometimes the system can be abused by people who don't actually need it.

The fact that some people abuse it is frustrating, but it doesn't excuse the fact that it exists to fulfil a real need.

 

[oink]

and there are cases where the payor is paying a high amount, but I am not giving specific cases because there are cases when the reverse is also true. I was stating a statistic......


Where are your references that majority of the time the payors live in smaller houses and cant afford the things the recipient can??????????

BOLD 1: Yes, like in your situation as mentioned by you in a previous post, and I quote.." I get SS, lots of it"

BOLD 2: Some of those references are right here on this forum, am sure they will come along soon to add their 2 cents

I am a professional and was married to a professional and my social circle happens to be mostly professional

But now you are working 3 jobs?

The standard of living can certainly go both ways. But if one wants to earn more, one has to work more. The difference between a payor and a recipient is that the more a payor works and makes, the more the recipient receives, however if the recipient works more and makes more, the payor receives no benefit, so how does that level off the standard of living?

Do not expect a CS and SS recipient that happens to be working, and perhaps living with another person (extra income), provide you with a logical answer. I am sure they will just dance around the question

Love when people just come on and say ......I had a "career", x.y,z hindered me from carrying on. What is the career that you speak of? Unless you work for CSIS state this so called "career" please

If you don't have a university degree or some form of minimum 2yrs college diploma...don't be calling your job a career!

 

[Mess]

Love when people just come on and say ......I had a "career", x.y,z hindered me from carrying on. What is the career that you speak of? Unless you work for CSIS state this so called "career" please

Personally I am trained to look at things from a corporate perspective. If you have incurred damages, then you get compensated. You need to show what the damages were, of course, but there is no question of entitlement to compensation if they are shown.

Just because it is family law doesn't mean that one entity cannot suffer damages. You seem to think that because this is a marriage and not a business that you are not liable.

 

[oink]

Personally I am trained to look at things from a corporate perspective. If you have incurred damages, then you get compensated. You need to show what the damages were, of course, but there is no question of entitlement to compensation if they are shown.

Just because it is family law doesn't mean that one entity cannot suffer damages. You seem to think that because this is a marriage and not a business that you are not liable.

Mess....don't target me personally, I don't know what you are trying to do here OK. Others have chipped in also, so if you are going to "whatever it is you are doing", then apply it to all the other posts, not just me

Thank you

 

[arabian]

If you don't have a university degree or some form of minimum 2yrs college diploma...don't be calling your job a career!

And you are an expert in determining what is and what is not a "career"?

I had no idea, until now, that a career could only be called a career if the job requires university or 2 year college.

I learn something new every day.

 

[Mess]

Mess....don't target me personally, I don't know what you are trying to do here OK. Others have chipped in also, so if you are going to "whatever it is you are doing", then apply it to all the other posts, not just me

Thank you

You're welcome.

I am "targeting" your statements, not your person. I am not saying you are a hideous misanthrope who forms opinions by stereotyping events of personal misfortune. I am just saying I disagree with your perspective.

There is no need to be so sensitive to disagreement.

 

[slughead10]

Mess....don't target me personally, I don't know what you are trying to do here OK. Others have chipped in also, so if you are going to "whatever it is you are doing", then apply it to all the other posts, not just me

Thank you

dont sweat it he picks on me too.....and anyone else he may feel like.......

 

[oink]

You're welcome.

I am "targeting" your statements, not your person. I am not saying you are a hideous misanthrope who forms opinions by stereotyping events of personal misfortune. I am just saying I disagree with your perspective.

There is no need to be so sensitive to disagreement.

Opinions are like private parts, we all have one....that is the beauty of public forums, not everyone is going to agree on matters. I am not sensitive to disagreement as you so hideously put it.

My point...I am not the only one that said what you decided to jump on, but you seem to have just picked my post out (again), as the one that has it all wrong

And you are an expert in determining what is and what is not a "career"?

No expert...just don't see how a customer service/shop assistant/ tiller, expects to be compensated equally by a spouse that is a dentist because the dentist earns more.

You can still go get that customer service job, how has your spouse hindered you?

I learn something new every day.

Unless of course you are telling me that something that doesn't require half a brain, and that even a kid can do it, is a career?

 

[Moolight]

The reality it always hurts to pay no matter what the amount is.

I have paid lump SS to ex just to get him to settled and not because I believed he was entitled, on the contrary. It was opposite as he had completed his degree of education and was making the higher salary at separation.

When you married, if truly partner you have both make financial decision that benefited the family. You did not mind spending or working to support your partner but once separation comes the world change.

In a amicable situation, I would have been the one who would not mind helping where needed as you do for family member and would expect same in return. There should be a black and white list of criteria that would prevent people to even pursue this when criteria are not met.

Having to go to trial to settle this is often waste of time and money.

 

[arabian]

University or college education most certainly does not define "career" in my opinion.

To some, working their way from front desk clerk in a hotel to rooms manager then on to executive housekeeper and then on to assistant hotel manager would be considered a career (just one example). Using this as an example I would state further that 20 yrs ago I don't think there were many places that offered post-secondary training in management. Nowadays you can get post secondary education in many things. So the person who quit the job as a night auditor at a hotel, to stay home with the kids, would now have to likely to to a very expensive and lengthy educational program. That is just one thing taken into consideration when determining SS = how difficult/easy is it for person to re-enter work force. That is just the start. Then it has to be measured the loss of income and career advancement ....

Yes lump sum payout is much, much easier.

 

[oink]

These days, there is no reasons for anyone not to have an education, or any adult fending for themselves...failure to do so can either be blamed on on the parents in the way they brought up their kids, or just pure damn laziness on the part of the individuals

@arabian, just so you can see where am coming from, see this definition below

Career is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as a person's "course or progress through life (or a distinct portion of life)". In this definition career is understood to relate to a range of aspects of an individual's life, learning and work.

Career is also frequently understood to relate only to the working aspects of an individuals life e.g. as in career woman.

A third way in which the term career is used to describe an occupation or a profession that usually involves special training or formal education,[1] and is considered to be a person’s lifework.[2] In this case "a career" is seen as a sequence of related jobs usually pursued within a single industry or sector e.g. "a career in law" or "a career in the building trade".

 

[Berner_Faith]

University or college education most certainly does not define "career" in my opinion.

To some, working their way from front desk clerk in a hotel to rooms manager then on to executive housekeeper and then on to assistant hotel manager would be considered a career (just one example). Using this as an example I would state further that 20 yrs ago I don't think there were many places that offered post-secondary training in management. Nowadays you can get post secondary education in many things. So the person who quit the job as a night auditor at a hotel, to stay home with the kids, would now have to likely to to a very expensive and lengthy educational program. That is just one thing taken into consideration when determining SS = how difficult/easy is it for person to re-enter work force. That is just the start. Then it has to be measured the loss of income and career advancement ....

Yes lump sum payout is much, much easier.

I have to agree with Arabian here Oink. Reasons being... I went to school and spent 2 years an thousands of dollars getting a associates degree. But what I am doing now, for a career is vastly different than what my education dictates. There are some aspects of my job that I use my education for, but they are VERY minimal and I could have achieved the same results by simple research or employer paid courses. I have done exactly what Arabian stated above, a different aspect then hotel, however I started out as a summer student and over the years, I worked my way up until I was offered the Management position.

I have no desire to go anywhere else, I like the company I work for, they are great to their employees and there are many chances for advancement, not to mention they have offices across Canada, that if the opportunity presented itself, I would be able to transfer just about anywhere in Canada.

Unfortunately for me, I feel like I wasted two years of my life and a lot of money for my education. While education is extremely important, there are certain avenues one can take and develop a career without an education.

I agree with you Oink, that someone who works as a minimum wage worker may not be considered to have a "career" but everyone has to start somewhere and starting as a minimum wage worker, is often the stepping stone to a career.

 

[oink]

I agree with you Oink, that someone who works as a minimum wage worker may not be considered to have a "career"

And that is why I posted the blob definition of what I consider a "career" to mean. A lot of people use the word loosely, especially when they are trying to make a claim for spousal support.

 

[momforever1956]

Yes Oink I am working 3 jobs. One is Mon--Thurs , one is consulting on Fridays, and I do freelance work for a Family Lawyer and Forensic accountant, (nights and weekends). Afterall I am an accountant and did such a good job of proving his lies and finally getting disclosure.
Because I hadn't worked for so many years, my SS is protected for imputed income to give me time to upgrade my skills (mostly software).
Fact--and I can get you the stats, that almost half of Payers, don't pay or are in default, so I am not waiting for the ball to drop, I am preparing to be self supporting when the Doc dude runs away!!
As stated before I still have had to curb my lifestyle as my household income is not what it was when we were married and my x paid for my eldest son's education and now refuses to contribute to my youngest.
If my x was so distraught and unhappy in the marriage why on earth did he wait 29 years (for me to ultimately kick him out). He should have said I am not ok with this arrangement that you are not working, and file for divorce before 29 years passed.

Now there is a court order to pay me, (hopefully for the rest of his life, )
You can call it whatever you like, the fact is with all the flaws in Family Law, this dude ain't getting away with his behaviour.
I wish him well and he can live and travel with his 50% of income in any way shape or form he chooses and so can I.