Small Business income and Post Secondary Obligations

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Chantilly4

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I have a tricky case i think..I have two kids seperated in 2001 was awarded sole custody in 2001 and had it since however my son left at the age of 16 to go live with dad, Sept 2010 at the start of Grade 11

Issue 1

My son has Learning Disabilities, while living with me he worked had money put away for school not alot but some. He left to go live with dad and barely graduated from High school (54% in Francais) 68% overall average but he managed to squeek by and get accepted at Ottawa U. He quit his job in 2010 after goign to live with dad and spent all the money he had inhis bank account. When i found out he was accepted at U (may 1) the next day i called the Learningn disability center and asked if there were any grants and bursaries specific for kids with LD's they said yes of course sent me the website and i forwarded this to him and his dad and his dads partner and todl them to apply for everything and also OSAP that gives a $2000.00 grant to any kid with LD's. Son worked 1 month last summer and earned 1000.00. So come August i get an email from my ex telling me that University isgoign to cost 16000 to 17000 and son only has 1000 to donate so i'm on the hook for my share of the rest. I asked did you apply for any of those grants? i'm still waiting for that answer and we are now Feb 2013 and we are heading to court next friday.

is there case law out there that says due to the negligence of the custodial parent the other parent shoudln't be on the hook ? I know i am responsible for my share of the 2/3 but i dont agree to be on the hook for all of it...considering he was eligible to apply for 16,500 of grant and bursaries from teh LD website alone. PLus 2000 from OSAP at a minimum, the Frist Generatoin Grant since niether me or the ex went to University i only have 2 college diploma's dad is military. Plus he received that 1000 grant for studying in french.

Our son and i love him to pieces and woudl go to the end of the earth to help him however he is lazy and doens't take and never took his education seriously (that was a big issue when he was living with me) he told me before christmas that he thought he failed his francais class because he didnt finish his exam and i asked him did you not get extra time to finish it he tells me he never went to request it !!!! he is identified and has a legit psychometric evaluation plus i also had him assessed by an OT in 2008 and those are recognized for 6 years so its still valie till 2014. He attended student services once at Ottawa U and never returned for his follow up appointment. (too busy partying according to his facebook pictures and posts)

I need some case law that will help me out i read some but nothing specific to my situation.

Issue 2

I started hosting internation students in 2012 cause i was pretty lonely at home with a teenage daughter htat is never home. I was told you claim it as a small business so money you get in minus your expenses and i know that you can knock off everything however for the purpose of Family law and calculation of child support and proportion calculation the lawyer i went to see told me to only deduct Rent, Hydro, Heat, Water, Groceries and the students break week .. if they leave for more then 5 days you have to reimburse them a certain amount of money for each day away.
i'm ok with all that and i've done it however i need to know where it is written in black and white for court because i'm self represented and his lawyer is arguing that i need to claim before my expenses not after when the lawyer i went to see told me otherwise.

HELP!!! :eek:
 
You can't force someone to apply for bursaries... besides which, the bursaries are for the STUDENT, and have to be applied for by the STUDENT. All your ex can do is encourage him to apply for them... and you'd have no way of proving that he didn't, unless he admitted to it. You did your part and sent the e-mail to your son, and if he chose not to follow up with it that's nobody else's fault but his. If your son is going to university, he's capable of doing that himself. That's not negligence on the part of the custodial parent. And if he has to pay a portion of the tuition himself, do you honestly think he wouldn't encourage your son to apply for them?

Our son and i love him to pieces and woudl go to the end of the earth to help him however he is lazy and doens't take and never took his education seriously
Click to expand...

There, you said it yourself. He's the master of his own fate and he chose not to take it seriously. So the blame is his.
 
Maybe not, but he's still responsible to put in the applications - not the CP. I understand that bursaries and scholarships would make a wonderful reduction in an amount owing on tuition... but that's the student's responsibility, is all I'm trying to say.

Or were you being facetious? :)
 
i'm not arguing here ... lol and yes i realize and totally agree grants and bursaries are to be applied for by the student however when you have a child with LD's and ADHD like our son you have to "remind" him nudge him .... which i did up until he moved out about everything lol he told me in grade 8 he wanted to go to university ...so i told him this is what you have to do for yourself and this is what i'll dof for you ... i had to take on the school and school board and hire an educational advocate for him because they weren't providing him the assistance he was legally entitled to. Dad is more of the yah let life fly by type thing but you can't do that with a kid with ADHD and LD"s you have to be the one to nudge and "harrass" them into doing what they have to do.
So dad being the father of a child with LD's and ADHD is responsible for ensuring his kid applies for all these things. He had no issue supplying him with Alcohol and a car at 16 lol Dad also needed to be there to ensure and assist him in applying that is part of being an involved parent.

Had my son still been living with me he would have applied cause i would have made sure he did it. I saw some case law on here that indicated that support could be sought from the parents if the child had a proper career path, had applied for all grants and bursaries he was eligible for.... and there were other conditions but i can't find them anymore ....
My ex makes over 100,000 i made 53000 he's double income, i'm single income household so to him dropping 5000 for a trip to the Dominican is not a problem ... my daughter comes home from his house with coach purses,lululemon this and lululemon that ...good for him i'm happy he can afford it but i can't afford to pay for university fees over and above what i'm suppose to pay.

We had an RESP while married, he was responsible for keeping it up to date payment wise, he stopped paying into it and let it die basically ..i can't remember the name of the company otherwise id' hunt it down however i started my own RESP for the kids but only in 2006 when i was promoted and got a hefty pay raise but there is only so much money in there and there are two kids to support for post secondary. Because of his disabilitiies he can plug in to all this "free" money .. our daughter who doesn't have LD's won't have that much "free' money to plug into so its not fair to her when her time comes if i'm bone dry in funds. lol

and i do believe my ex didnt get my son to apply for the grants and burseries becuase he's the worlds worst procrastinator anything that involves effort he dodges.... when i mentioned to my son about OSAP his reply to me was "I dont want the debt" LOL I just about Sh*t. i told him you will get a minimum $2000 grant if you apply...this was back in SEptember .. in October i get an email from him requesting my income information for OSAP, he sent me the print screen of the application and on there it says "i parent 1 ..." i told him Parent 1 is your dad since you live with him make sure you put his info in there not mine. You live with your dad he is your custodial parent you need to use his financial information. November i talk to him he still hasn't finished his application .. christmas time i ask him did you send it in he says no i havent sent it in .... i get a nasty gram from my ex begining December accusing me of not providing my son with my financial information preventing him from applying for grants and bursaries and because of me he missed out on deadlines lol i replied and asked him if they had applied for all those grants that i sent you back in May ... no reply .... lol i also provided him the email i sent our son where i explain to him that i am not parent 1 that is dad is and he needs to use his financial information for his osap application not mine. Using mine with be fraud.... yes he would get more money if he used my income and more grant but its fraud if you do.

My son had also told me back in May that dad said he would be paying for Univeristy ...after i told him he should apply for grants and OSAP because I don't have alot of money to give away for an education.

That's the part of Family Law i dont understand .. i have two college diplomas, my parents were and still are married and i paid for both my diplomas.
The one i got right after high school and one i got as an adult. It didn't kill me to work for my education right out of high school. I didnt qualify for OSAP because my parents made too much money apparently lol so i worked 3 jobs and it didn't kill me.

I'm looking for case law with similar situation in preparation for next friday. The lawyer i went to see told me i had done everything right by providing all information and it was negligent of my ex not to make sure he applied for the grants and bursaries as he is the custodial parent. I just need to find the case law on it.
 
@Janus my thought exactly ... if he was paying he'd be taking it more seriously and if dad was in my financial situation he wouldn't be too happy either.

i had read one case law where the dad won on some points because the mom hadnt' ensure the kid did something for his post secondary and it ended up costing more $$ and i should have printed it and didnt
 
I'm surprised that you blame your ex for your son not applying for OSAP.

How can you state that it is not equally your fault as well?

Just because your son lives with your ex, does not stop you from being a parent.

Generally your son should contribute 1/3 of his education. If he does not have it, you can cosign for a loan etc for his portion, so how much he works is not relevant to you if you want to only pay your portion of the 2/3.

If he had applied for grants, it would have lessened the financial obligations for all of you, so if that was important to you, you should have made it happen. Blaming your ex is unfair.
 
oh did i forget to mention in my rant in there that back in May before he moved out west to Alberta from Ontario for the summer that i offered to help him fill out all the applications for the Learning Disability Grants and he declined my offer? i was at work multitasking while writing all this out. As for OSAP i didn't have my ex's financial information so i couldn't fill that out for my son. I didn't get my ex financial information until August and my son was in Edmonton at the time and i was in Ontario. So yes i am blaming my ex husband and his partner for not ensuring my son fill out all those applications.
My ex was posted back to Alberta this past summer. I asked for the home mailing address out there in August and my son's program information because my state farm agent required that information so that i could withdraw money from the RESP I have through them. My ex refused to respond to my email. I finally got the program information from my son on September 28 and he still wouldn't provide me dad's home address which is ultimately my son's home address. you would think he was the one that had the court order against me when in fact i'm the one that has a court order against him lol that aside i finally got the home mailing address on October 20 th and was able to start the withdrawal from the RESP.

i had went online and used the OSAP Aid Calculator estimator back in August and as per him living with dad in Alberta and attending school in Ontario he qualified for 5300 in OSAP 3000 of that was grant. Living with me he would have qualified for 14,000 half being grant. I told him that when i went to visit him at University in September and it was 15 days later that he finally started the application and wanted my information as Parent 1 and i said no that is your Dad's income that has to go in there as he is your custodial parent now.
but the kid never finished the application as of December 27th lol I emailed that and told him this needs to be done if he is going to get money make sure he fills it out and nothing. Also because DAd is common law it wants his partners financial information for the Application i don't have that information either. So my hands are kind of tied. Trust me if my son lived with me he wouldn't have a choice but to do all those applications. I believe that its not fair to myself or to his dad to have to pay for something that is not required if he can get grants and bursaries. His Dad doesn't obviously think the same way otherwise those applications would have been filled out and submitted
 
my son also didn't come by very often when he went to live with his dad because at my house there is structure and discipline ... when the school called dad about his behaviour issues ie not listening , downloading illegal stuff on the school computers, telling the teachers to F off...not using his assistive technology, leaving his school board issued computer in his locker unlocked, showed up to school smelling like alcohol...etc... dad wouldn't return their calls and ignore them... so they called me..and i had to be the voice of reason and he didn't want to hear it lol He had good grades in grade 9 and 10 in the 70's grade 11 and 12 50' & 60's almost failed Francais class.
 
You can't continue to blame the ex. Your child is a teenager, if he doesn't want to do something neither you or dad can make him. Unfortunately if that means he misses out on grants and burseries well that's what happens. Even if he applied there is no guarantee he would have received them. So you will most likely be ordered to pay your share of the costs. Osap is getting even harder to apply for. My first year I got nothing because my Dad made over $100k, my mother made $0 but I will still declined. With Dad's and your income combined, he most likely will not get much. Don't believe the osap calculator, because when I used that I was to get around $5000 and ended up getting $0.
 
Berner_Faith said:
You can't continue to blame the ex. Your child is a teenager, if he doesn't want to do something neither you or dad can make him.
Click to expand...

So why do Mom and Dad have to pay for something that is beyond their control?

If a parent cannot force a child to do something, then I would posit that they are no longer a child of the marriage, but rather an adult making their own decisions.

The courts disagree of course, which makes a mockery of the concept of justice.
 
Agree with you Janus... I don't think parents should be forced to pay for post secondary... intact families are not forced to, divorced parents shouldn't have to either... unfortunately, family court disagrees and divorced parents, get to fight it out!
 
Yeah, this is something I didn't realize before, that post-secondary education becomes an expense that parents have to pay for. I wish mine would have gotten a divorce 10 years ago when I started college. I wouldn't have spent the last 7 years paying off an enormous debt.

Actually, I take it back. Having to pay my own way in life has taught me self-sufficiency and how to manage my own affairs instead of being able to legally shove the responsibilities off on to someone else - another thing the courts also don't recognize. If that had happened to my folks when I was entering college, they both would have had to file bankruptcy. But, logic has no place in family law.
 
@teezy i went to college twice first time fresh out of high school paid for it by working with the REserves, bartending in the mess and being head stewardess at mess dinners. In the summer i went to summer training camp for 2 summers and 2 other summers worked at the paper mill back home. And it didnt kill me ... had to give up my career as a vet tech because of my ex's allergies. I wasn't allowed to keep up my registered status or do my continuing education so my skills became "expired" a vet told me lol so i made the decision to go back to school ... second time around i had two kids got osap and worked and took care fo my kids ... that didnt kill me either lol it taught me to work for what i want it wasn't handed to me as a freebie. Thats what i find really frustrating about that part of familyl law when it comes to kids education. that and the deadbeats that dont pay for 5 years and then when you finally get them in court and they owe you 8000 of their share of SEction 7 expenses and 5 years worth of CS they refused to adjust they get in court and bargain to have their amount owing decreased. in the meantime the other parent had to get a second job to make ends meet .... grrrr
 
@ better faith - i've already paid my share lol and even more then my share thats my issue lol he wants more out of me when i have already paid over my share lol the ex wants me to cover my sons portion of his education he should have paid for himself. When hte kid went to live with his dad he quit his job he had ... the reason he gave me was that it was inconvenient for his dad to drive him from the east end of town to the west end of town to his job at Metro so i said to him ask for a transfer to the metro closer to your dads, dont quit your job unless you have another one .. come stay at my house the nights you have to work... no dad wants me to quit my job... then dad was giving him $40 a week spending money to keep gas in his car!!! lol My son has LDs so right off the bat kids with LD's get a $2000.00 grant I am a member of the local Learning disability assocation and every parent that i knwo there that has kids at post secondary have received this grant so i know its given out. i'll just have to wait and see what the judge says next friday in the meantime keep looking for case law ! lol

the lawyer i went to see told me they have to prove that they made the effort to apply for the Grants and Bursaries. so we'll see what happens next week
 
In general, the university stuff is divided in thirds. The child pays 1/3, and the parents divide the remaining two thirds proportional to their income. I'm not sure if grants and loans come off the top, or from the kid's portion. I'm also not sure if RESPs come off the top, or count towards one parent's share, depending on who contributed the money. These could probably be argued over in court and decided by a judge.

I would be saying something like "Gee, it's too bad you didn't apply for loans and grants and scholarships and work and save your money like your parents suggested. I guess you'll have to defer your acceptance and take a year off to work and save and apply for the scholarships to come up with your share, and then we'll send you to school next year."

This would also give him time to repeat a few of his poorer courses and maybe do better, and develop a bit more maturity and study habits and independence, which will do him in good stead when he does reach university. LD or no LD, university studies require dedication from the student, not helicopter parenting.

I'm also wondering if maybe he doesn't want to go to university, and has chosen this passive-aggressive way of showing it.
 
IF your son is smart enough, with a LD, to get into university then he is certainly intelligent enough to have filled out forms, or encouraged his father to, regarding tuition.

Have the kid look into bursaries and apply for a student loan - just like many of us had to do. Offer him an incentive that upon graduation you and your ex will proportionately assist him with repayment of his student loans - don't pay for all of it though!
 
Can't rely on that incentive... What if Dad doesn't want to help pay back the student loan? Better to pick an incentive that only involves the parent making the incentive.
 
@rioe my initial response to my ex husband when i received the first email telling me how much university was going to cost and he realized our son should pay 1/3 but he only has 1000 .. my response was "well looks like "son" is goign to have to get some OSAP or a student line of credit, did you guys ever complete the applications for all those grants and burseries from the learning disability web site that i sent you guys on May 2?" i then copied all the links for OSAP, LD website again lol, TD CAnada trust web site with the info for studnet line of credit ... and in that same email i asked for the home address so that i could withdraw money from MY RESP that i start 5 years after we divorced and i never got a reply to any of my questions lol

he came back with you have to pay in proportion to income on what logan does not cover... ah no ... i pay in proportion to income on the 2/3 .... which i was finally able to do in october once i got all the information i needed only took them 2 months to give it to me.

i worked hand in hand with the school for many years regarding his LD and ADHD .. trying to teach him tricks to help with his memory and attention they finally fully kitted him with the laptop and all softwares he needed to be successful he just chose not to do it... he was very lazy .. love him to peices but he is very lazy.... i had to have a meeting with two teachers at one poitn because the kid wouldn't bring his laptop to class or woudn't boot it up at the begining of class so it was ready by the end when he had 20 minutes of free time to do homeowrk.... then he'd got to second class and tha tteacher was pulling her hair out cause he wouldn't have his computer ready for french class... so had a meeting with him and the two teachers and i threatened him that if i got one more call from Mme Francais class i would come to school every morning and boot his laptop for him and make sure he took it to class lol so i told madame francais if he does it again call me and i will come. Funny it was never an issue again .... lol his english teacher second semester didnt call me because she wanted him to "fall on his face" and learn... so at report cardtime his marks weren't great and at a meeting she told him in font of me and dad .. young man you are in grade 10 going in grade 11 you need to pull up your socks and smarten up ... your mom shoudln't have to be constantly checking up on your at this age. he sat there crying and dad was in town of post deployment leave so he came to the meeting and sat there rubbing his back and told him 'its ok buddy you're coming to live with me next year." i could have just choked him yah dont tell the kid listen to your teacher she is right .. and he needs to smarten up ....

at one point hte ressource teacher had mentioned that maybe we should lesson his course load give him a spare and he could do an extra year of high school but my son refused didnt want to do that.

The learning disability center also had a workshop last year i wanted him to come with me on "Transition STrategies from high school to post secondary for kids with LD's" he didnt want to come.

his adhd is bad, the doctor that had evaluated him in 2008 had talked us into medication and i agreed and my son agreed I put him on Concerta and it worked good the teachers were happy and reports were great.... he went ot visit dad and he came back and said "i dont want to be on this anymore" so we were back to square 1 lol ... he was a hockey player and had 6 am hockey practice. i would get him up at 5 he would get ready adn we'd head out. He'd go out and put his hockey gear in the trunk of the car while i was getting ready. the one morning he didnt take his meds when i reminded him .. goes out to put the bag in the trunk while i'm drying my hair ... we go to leave at 530 i put hte car in reverse and it goes crunch crunch... WTF .. lol i htought i had my parking break on ... no its off... i pull forward then i look at him and i asked him 'did you put your bag in the trunk" he says omg... when he went out to put hte bag in the trunk he forgot the car keys ... so he put the bag on the groung behind the car and came back in the house to get the keys but from the time he walked from the car to the house (not far at all lol) he forgot he had to get hte keys to put his bag in the car....

grants and bursaries and scholarships come off the top loans come off the childs share or at least that is what the lawyer told me lol
 
@arabian .. the kid is smart he was avaluated at being in the 87th percentile for intelligence but because of the LD it prevents him from fonctioniing at that level however if he would have used his assistive technology he could have been pretty darn close .... he's in the 3rd percentile for decoding words cause of his deficiency in reading and writting. He was never able to write cursive could only print because he reverses letters and numbers. His ADHD predominently inattentive type, you can tell him to go get you two things and he'll only remember the second one if you are lucky ... it was night and day when he was medicated on concerta .... but at 15 i couldn't force him to take medication.
When it came time for loan and grant applications though, had he been living with me still where i could tell him what to do he would have been sitting down and filling those applications out with me. I would have taken a day off of work if i had to but couldn't do that cause he was at dads and barely ever came here and half the time when he came here he showed up wasted or hung over. I live in a townhouse the one time he was so drunk he went to the neighbors door instead and was pounding on their door at 1 am. BTW I didnt supply him with the booze lol

i won't be offering to pay back his student loans if he ever gets them .... oh no.. he's gonna have to manage that on his own. I'm not a bank frick lol I have a maple tree in my back yard thats it man not a money tree lol

i have two college diploma's solely funded by yours truly here and i'm not going to fund his share now that I am obligated to cause i'm divorced lol
 
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