Signed Agreement and New Information

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bluebutterfly

New member
My ex-spouse and I signed a separation agreement. We both had legal council and negotiated between us the division of assests and debts. We did not do financial statements as it was his request not to. I was bought out from his pension at his request instead of transferring over to a LIRA.

He owes me as stated in the agreement 5000.00 plus three months child support which he did not pay.

The pension was evaluated and since the agreement was signed my lawyer received from the pension that my amount was now higher 55,000.

My ex is refusing to pay me what is already owed from the first agreement signed and has given me the option of forget the new pension difference, give back all the pension money received and transfer the whole amount or he will see me in court and have every bit of the separation agreement torn apart.

I guess my question would be what are my chances in your experience that I would have to pay back what I received (it is invested), can he change the original agreement even if he dictated it all? Is the 55,000. worth starting all over again? Talking to my lawyer tomorrow to discuss this and feeling like I should walk away from it all.......

Thanks
 
tough one. He wont pay the 5k and now you know he will not pay the 55k without a battle. You had ILA and your lawyer should have not agreed to not exchanging financials, heck you shouldnt of let your lawyer agree to it.

You signed an agreement knowing you did not have full financial picture. I would chalk it up to a life lesson and worry about the money that he agreed to pay and the CS.
 
Thank you for responding.

In my situation I came out with less than I was entitled to no doubt about that and I was okay with that. I negotiated till I was blue in the face just trying to get what I was entitled to without financial statements and I was and am okay with that. I did this to avoid court and stress which really I ended up spending way more on legal fees than necessary because he kept changing his mind as he was reluctant to give up anything.

No we did not do financial statements and yes he had a lot more assets then I; however I was and still am okay with that decision.

The argument that we agreed on the settlement and it is what it is is absolutely correct and I have nor do I intend to not honour that agreement.

The pension evaluator gave the wrong amount and if I had the proper amount I would have gotten that. There is a clause in my agreement for one particular area to be addressed and not the whole agreement which allows me to pursue the additional amount that should have been in the first negotiations.

I would not even consider this for a small amount of money; however this is a substantial amount. I do not earn a large amount of money so this makes a big difference to me.

I did make him an offer and reduced it to half as this was unforseen and he declined. Not like I am not trying to be fair.

Anyway I have decided that I am going to pursue this and the outcome will be whatever it should be. I have been pushed around and manipulated by him too many times. I made a reasonable offer to meet half way with him and I am willing to let someone else decide.

I know thinking emotional is not beneficial and perhaps if he had honoured the first agreement I would be okay to just leave it, but I will probably have to fight for the first agreement anyway I might as well do it all at the same time.

Remember I am not asking for more than my share, just my share. Would you really walk away from $55000.00 plus another 10,000 from the original?

This is not directed at anyone just putting it out there?

Cheers
 
bluebutterfly said:
My ex-spouse and I signed a separation agreement. We both had legal council and negotiated between us the division of assests and debts. We did not do financial statements as it was his request not to. I was bought out from his pension at his request instead of transferring over to a LIRA.
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You agreed to this, despite the fact it is not very wise to do so without full disclosure. That was your decision to make. You signed the agreement.

bluebutterfly said:
He owes me as stated in the agreement 5000.00 plus three months child support which he did not pay.
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He also signed, so yes he should be paying this amount. As you have been advised, FRO can help with the child support.

bluebutterfly said:
The pension was evaluated and since the agreement was signed my lawyer received from the pension that my amount was now higher 55,000.

My ex is refusing to pay me what is already owed from the first agreement signed and has given me the option of forget the new pension difference, give back all the pension money received and transfer the whole amount or he will see me in court and have every bit of the separation agreement torn apart.
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You BOTH signed. You will find it is not easy to tear apart ANY part of a separation agreement that is signed and witnessed by two people who had legal counsel to advise them.

bluebutterfly said:
I guess my question would be what are my chances in your experience that I would have to pay back what I received (it is invested), can he change the original agreement even if he dictated it all? Is the 55,000. worth starting all over again? Talking to my lawyer tomorrow to discuss this and feeling like I should walk away from it all.......
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Your ex did NOT dictate your separation agreement. You participated in the process, and you had legal counsel to advise you. You had an equal say and in the end you agreed and signed it.

IMO it would be a bad idea to try and re-open the issue after it has been agreed and signed. You got burned... most of us get burned to some degree in our divorce settlements. If you wanted everything you were entitled to, then it was your choice to proceed and sign without even knowing how much there was to be split.

Also keep in mind that "everything one is entitled to" might be legal, but it does not always make it right, fair or just.

By settling the finances quickly without court involvement you have already saved yourself potentially tens of thousands of dollars and untold amounts of stress and misery in going through the court process. Do you really want to throw that away?
 
bluebutterfly said:
Anyway I have decided that I am going to pursue this and the outcome will be whatever it should be. I have been pushed around and manipulated by him too many times. I made a reasonable offer to meet half way with him and I am willing to let someone else decide.
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From his perspective, the matter was already settled, agreed to and signed. Why on Earth should he discuss it at all?

bluebutterfly said:
Remember I am not asking for more than my share, just my share. Would you really walk away from $55000.00 plus another 10,000 from the original?
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At least you got a share of the pension. I got nothing. My ex did not disclose her pension at all. I figured going into the divorce that 50/50 on everything was fair and should be what I expect.

Turns out that isn't the way it works at all. It turned out she got 80% of the assets, I got 20%. Then she got years of spousal support after taking it all and destroying my life.

Then again I like to think I was smart enough to settle out of court or instead of 20% I would have gotten 0% because the lawyers would have gotten it.
 
Sounds like your pension evaluator screwed up then you screwed up by not verifying the numbers provided to you. You also erred in not insisting on full financial disclosure.

If you decide to pursue this then you would be wise to discuss retaining your lawyer on a "limited retainer" or percentage so that if you are unsuccessful you are not looking at a large bill. Perhaps see if you can find a lawyer who will pursue the matter for 30%.

OR

Walk away and put this behind you. Sometimes it's just not worth pursuing.
 
I want to thank you all very much for your input

I find it so disturbing, as I am new to this, that the system in family law is so twisted. The stories I read hear baffle me.

How is this possible? I am an ex-wife and it seems to me that the law sides more with wives than it does with husbands.....

I realize that I may seem like I am coming across like I have been jilted and I really am not trying to be vindictive at all. I just really, as naive as it may be, thought that you get what you are entitled to and that is why they have laws in place.

I did speak to my lawyer, who really is all about negotiation, and she really has not pushed me one way or the other in this matter. She feels based on our experience with my ex, that he is manipulating me again and waiting for me to back down, as do I.

She is not one of those lawyers who say go for it as in many times during the negotiations she advised me to let some things, the nickle and diming, just go.

For the record, she did want financial statements, so did his lawyer, he refused to negotiate if he had to do one.

I was emotionally beat up for so long that I really just wanted closure so I agreed to it. I had nothing in my name at all as he controlled all of the finances so in my mental state I couldn't deal with the fight, I just needed out.

I know so why am I now thinking I should go after this. I am in a much better head space and realize the errors of my way.

He believes that he can make up his own rules and I just need to play by them. His lawyer also advised him, to pay the extra pension amount and he has decided to get a new lawyer or so he says.

I have to go after child support, the settlement amount owed 5K plus he was to pay 1/3 of my son's college and he also has not paid that which is another 6K. This is from the original.

If I don't purse this what is to stop him from not paying further child support, spousal as agreed?

I know FRO deals with child support, but do they also deal with spousal?

How do you collect on what already should be?

Perhaps if I knew how to resolve those issues it would help.

I am reconsidering opening this up based on the responses I have had here. I realize that this is actual experiences from all of you and thank you for taking the time to reply to me.

Very much appreciated especially since no one knows me and has nothing to gain or lose by your advice.
 
bluebutterfly said:
....I am an ex-wife and it seems to me that the law sides more with wives than it does with husbands.....

.
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Well I would have to strongly disagree with you on that statement, although I'm sure others would agree with you.

The whole process is, in my opinion, one huge void designed to suck money out of families. If you have assets that can be converted to cash, the lawyers often keep litigation alive. When you walk into those nice offices (lawyers, accountants) remind yourself that you are paying for the view.

You must have a proper court order before a maintenance enforcement program (like FRO) will commence collection.

From what I saw on television the other evening (and it is supposed to air again either tonight or tomorrow) FRO in Ontario is in a shambles.

With this in mind you should realize that collection actions might very likely take you several years to resolve.

You have to ask yourself if you have the mental and financial stamina to fight this fight.

Knowledge is power. I would strong urge you to do as much reading as you can. Start by reading the various acts which affect you (divorce act, etc.) then move on to CanLII to read up on actual judges decisions. After you do that you can possibly make a reasonable decision on whether or not you want to pursue the matters.
 
If you have a court order outlining child & spousal support then you should register with FRO. You may not get a response for several months but at least you would be registered. I'm sure FRO will let you know, in due course, whether your order meets the mustard and they are willing to collect on it.
 
If you have a signed separation agreement, you can file it at the courthouse and then submit it to FRO for them to collect on.

It might not happen right away but they have real teeth and will get money to you eventually. For the college stuff you can submit a statement of arrears as well and submit it to them.

As for the 5k (presumably equalization) this one is harder to collect on.

FRO will also collect spousal support.
 
ABSOLUTELY NOT am I implying that at all. I have not even been through the system to know whether or not it would or would not be in my favour. Was just an observation based on actual people who have gone through it, in my circle.

What I just signed and it has not even been filed, I am completely okay with. In light of this additional amount I do have the option because of how our agreement was written up as does he, to address this issue without compromising the whole agreement.

It is he who wants to re-open the whole agreement as he feels he has been treated unjust not me. Perhaps his reason for not even honouring what we have now.

I did make the decision to sign and I did have legal council and I did honour all of my part of the agreement. I did settle for less in pretty much all aspects except child support which was a set amount based on his income. I did this to avoid conflict and going to court as well as for my own sanity.

I am well within my legal right to go for the additional 55k. He is the one who does not want to pay anything to me. I even offered to meet 1/2 way and give 26k to resolve this. His lawyer advised him to avoid taking it to a judge as he doesn't really stand a chance.

What is the point of having an agreement if it is not honoured? What is the point of trying to negotiate to end up having to battle for what you negotiated?

I am not re-opening the agreement, the agreement is being amended to include the additional amount of the pension. I did not request the pension to be re-evaluated.

We got a proper pension evaluation done and at the time I went with, we went with, the amount believing it to be a true value. Are we to get second and third evaluations done on everything to make sure before you sign? These are paid evaluations and the error was discovered on there end thus them sending it to our lawyers to correct their mistake.
 
Sounds like your ex is engaging in "smoke and mirrors" to get you to fold your hand.

I have found that a person can have a ream of orders but it can cost serious money and plenty of time to have these orders enforced. Some orders sound grandiose but are unenforceable.

If you look under information for FRO on the internet they SHOULD have a section on the correct way in which orders have to be worded before they (FRO) will collect on your behalf. Failing that you should ask your lawyer if he/she knows if order is enforceable by FRO.
 
Mess said:
The reason separation agreements require independent legal advice is because we are ALL stressed and often making emotional decisions instead of logical, practical ones. Your lawyer should have pointed out anything that was unfair. If you signed it anyway, that was your decision as an adult.
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Your lawyer should have included in your separation agreement that your support was to be handled by FRO and indexed or not. In the beginning I had no idea how these things worked and am very relieved that he explained this to me before signing any documents. That's what he's paid to do (your best interests).

The fact that your EX does not want to give you anything has nothing to do with it - had he signed an agreement to be enforced by FRO, then it's enforced. You should talk this over with your lawyer and see if your SA could be amended.
 
bluebutterfly said:
What is the point of having an agreement if it is not honoured? What is the point of trying to negotiate to end up having to battle for what you negotiated?
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Isnt that what you are trying to do? Not honour the agreement? You maybe should be looking to see if you can sue the person who did the pension evaluation at it was their mistake.

Why are you worried about redoing the whole agreement? Let him re-open it, how much worse off would you be then?
 
I guess you could perhaps look at it that way as I am not trying to honour the agreement.

I should look into who did the evaluation and see if there is any recourse.

I am worried not about if I will come out better or worse I guess emotionally. I am just getting back on my feet.

Cheers
 
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