Should I wait? Ex not paying CS after hearing.

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Linear

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The X and I recently attended a 1 day hearing regarding CS variation. Our current order has been in place nearly 8 years and X has never missed a CS payment. Since the hearing he has not paid any CS (2 payments). He won't respond to any inquiries as to why he's suddenly stopped making CS payments. It seems as though he wants to wait until the judgement comes in before he continues or ceases CS.

Is it best I just wait?
 
Did you get the decision regarding the judgement yet? Or are you waiting to hear? If he's not paying, then you should prob file with FRO after you get the new order.
 
NBDad,

The decision has not come in yet. Hearing was 1 month ago - we could have the decision any day or it could be another month or more. He's missed 2 bi-weekly CS payments and won't provide any explanation. The only explanation provided so far far when asked if he was aware his CS was late was "I know, I have a calendar". Nothing since ...
 
The original agreement is not filed with the FRO?

If not, I think you will have to wait - then as NBdad said - file it once you recv it.
Either way - he is accumulating arrears. Is the new CS order for more money - or less?

Great answer - "I have a Calendar." Sounds like he needs a calculator too.
 
hadenough,

The original agreement has never been filed with any enforcement entity. There has never been an issue receiving CS from him (8 years) until just after our hearing. Until the decision of the variation hearing comes out we have no idea what the CS payments will be. My understanding is that our current agreement, our Divorce Order, remains valid until the judge releases their decision regarding the variation hearing.
 
A couple more emails went unanswered, although he did ask about our daughter's dental claim and when he can expect his money.

I guess if he doesn't pay his CS tomorrow when he drops the children off I'll have to register the current order for enforcement.
 
Well, he obviously has a reason for not paying. Are you sure you don't know what his thinking is on this?

Before registering with the FRO, I would tell him that you will be doing so with the current one and the next court order, unless he starts to talk about this.

I think most people would like to avoid the FRO.
 
Linear said:
hadenough,

The original agreement has never been filed with any enforcement entity. There has never been an issue receiving CS from him (8 years) until just after our hearing. Until the decision of the variation hearing comes out we have no idea what the CS payments will be. My understanding is that our current agreement, our Divorce Order, remains valid until the judge releases their decision regarding the variation hearing.
Click to expand...

It sounds like he's holding out for the judge's decision. Like you said, you have no idea what the new CS will be. And it'll likely be backdated to the court application date (or more, depending on what was asked for). Is the variation application seeking a reduced amount? If so, that's probably why he's holding back on payments. However, as you pointed out, your current order is in effect until the judge issues a variation order, so he should stick with his current payment plan until ordered to do otherwise.
 
billm,

He's a very high conflict individual, I can only assume he didn't like the questions asked of him and his business during the hearing - the judge was not very impressed with him and he wasn't a very happy camper afterwards or since. I'd love to hear how he justifies not paying CS, unfortunately he won't respond. He'll answer any other question except for why he's suddenly stopped paying the CS. I think you're right about letting him know about the FRO before making the application - I wonder how mixed up things might get in registering an 8 year old order only to deal with a new order in the next few months. His CS doesn't hurt us financially, so there's no emergency.

HammerDad,

The reason for the variation hearing was that after 8 years he's much better off financially than when we were together and the last order was when the children were very young. He responded to the motion for a CS variation with a motion for shared access which was agreed to after involving a child psyc who offered suggestions as to how to successfully engage a 50/50 routine with minimal impact on the children's relationship with their younger half sister. The 50/50 access will be part of the new order.

TeenWolf,

The original application was for an increase in CS by me. It was countered with an application for shared access which I've described above. The new CS order may be the same, less or possibly more depending on how the judge imputes his income (self-employed).

So in the meantime he's simply stopped paying anything and won't give me a reason why.
 
Well, only he really knows why he's behaving the way he is, but it sounds like he's pissed off. I still think he's hoping for a reduced CS amount and he's holding out in order to not overpay. Based on what you say, he may very well have a higher CS amount, but the 50/50 access will result in the offset method, which may make his CS payment lower than what he currently pays. Hard to say without all the numbers, but it seems like a logical reason to explain his sudden stoppage of CS when he previously had an excellent payment history.

With this said, he can't unilaterally decide to stop paying CS. Like others have suggested here, you should tell him that you'll register with FRO, if he doesn't smarten up.
 
I spoke to a lawyer today. Because of the conflict between he and I it was advised that I no longer contact him as I have already done so numerous times. On Monday I'll file a Motion myself to have him pay the arrears. Also on Monday I will notify his lawyer of the situation and that I have a filed a Motion. I will advise his lawyer that if the matter proceeds to court I will hire a lawyer to argue the case and will be seeking costs.

I'm hoping once his lawyer has a chat with him he'll see the light and understand that he's still under a current and valid order for CS and that might only change when the new order/decision comes out.

And here I thought I'd never have to write another Affidavit!
 
Linear said:
billm,


The reason for the variation hearing was that after 8 years he's much better off financially than when we were together and the last order was when the children were very young. He responded to the motion for a CS variation with a motion for shared access which was agreed to after involving a child psyc who offered suggestions as to how to successfully engage a 50/50 routine with minimal impact on the children's relationship with their younger half sister. The 50/50 access will be part of the new order.

TeenWolf,

The original application was for an increase in CS by me. It was countered with an application for shared access which I've described above. The new CS order may be the same, less or possibly more depending on how the judge imputes his income (self-employed).

So in the meantime he's simply stopped paying anything and won't give me a reason why.
Click to expand...
Have you started to work towards the 50/50 or waiting till the new order is in effect? If you havent then maybe his reasoning is that he is not going to pay anything until the new order is done.
 
standing on the sidelines,

We're not able to implement the 50/50 right away as he is self-employed (travels) and needs to vary his schedule to accommodate the new schedule. He can possibly do this before the decision comes out but since he's so high conflict I wonder how we would handle the CS prior to a decision, he's claiming a $3500/yr income (No, I didn't forget a zero, and I make 36k) and now wants CS from me, the CS variation I filed seeks an imputation to him of over 60k (which I had a pretty well presented case for the imputation i.e. he pays his employee 60k to do the same job as him and his wife earns 60k doing the same job as he does). If he can get his schedule worked out and wants to use the offset of his currently imputed income (49k) from 8 years ago that would be fine with me.
 
Seems I forgot to add in the original post, he's also not been paying his share of daycare along with the CS.
 
I tend to be a barracuda bitch when it comes to money because my own personal experiences.

However, with that said, I think you should give him a break and try to find out first of all what the payments will be. I'm sure he is quite aware of the legal enforcement action you can take. Be thankful that you are divorced from a person who has paid for his financial responsibilities regarding his child. Sounds like you've been spared the anxiety of fighting over money - I wouldn't start animosity at this point in time, particularly as your child is older and might possibly end up being used as a pawn.

By the way, courts take a long time to get things signed. Registering with your maintenance enforcement is fairly simple but it sometimes takes a few months to kick in. You could register and then cancel it down the road if you want. In Alberta they keep a lien on drivers licenses, personal property registry, etc. for anywhere up to 12 yrs. Understand the consequences before you do anything. You can get the info you need on the web.
 
arabian,

Thank you for your post and I'm sorry to hear you've had to fight for money.

As for giving him a break, I'm not going to do that. As parents we don't get breaks on our obligations to our children. We have two children together, one who attends daycare. He's a grown man with a good career and a responsibility to support our children. Whatever the decision is regarding new CS amounts will only be made going forward, there is no retroactive order being sought and this order could be months away. He doesn't get to arbitrarily decide to stop supporting financially and lay everything on me. I may have said that his CS doesn't have much financial impact on my current household finances, however I'm not going to take a $1000/mth kick in the pants to give him a break. We had children together, we both support them.

As for animosity ... that's been the norm since he was first asked for an increase in CS, even before the first Motion was filed. I won't bother getting into too many details of what's happened over the past 3 years, but I'll give you a taste of what's happened in the past several weeks since the hearing.

Right after the hearing he signed the children up for horseback riding lessons, which I'm really excited about. When he dropped the children off after their first visit since the hearing one of my children told me that their father says that if I don't pay half the cost that I wouldn't be allowed to go watch them ride (I'd already told him I'd pay my share).

A week later I emailed him about a trip to Disney he's taking the kids on. Our youngest is doing very poorly in school and the teacher is concerned over her being away for 2 weeks. I asked him to get in contact with the teacher to find out what he could do for schoolwork while they were away to keep her from playing heavy catch-up when they return. After the children were dropped off following this email my youngest comes in the house crying because dad told her I was not going to let them go. These were 2 stressful incidents within a few weeks, and it's been like this for nearly 3 years.

And of course we have him not paying any support of any kind. Even despite his behavior I reiterate that he, as I do, have an obligation to support our children financially and otherwise.
 
Linear - I see your situation isn't that simple. I posted my original reply to you before you typed in your background... originally I was with the impression that your ex was a decent sort who only recently stopped paying CS. I obviously didn't get the whole picture.

I have found maintenance enforcement to be very effective in collecting money. The collection activities are aggressive and does nothing to improve relations with estranged ex husbands. You have to do what is best for your child. In Alberta the Maintenance Enforcement Program (MEP) has a program for reviewing child support each year which I think is a good thing as it keeps people out of court. The wording of the divorce/child support agreement is very important but if you get it done correctly you have little to worry about. I wish they had the same program for Spousal Support but they don't - I have to put up with my ex dragging me to court every single year in his unsuccessful attempts to have SS eliminated.

I believe you mentioned your ex is self-employed? This can be problematic as we all know how easy it is for these dead-beats to TRY to increase their business expenses on paper so they don't have to pay as much. I won't say anything else on that matter in the event some dead beat gets some useful tips.

If you decide to to the MEP route then be prepared to cut yourself off completely from any communication with your ex. The reason I say that is that the collection and enforcement is very, very stringent and he will not be very happy. They don't screw around and they DO CANCEL DRIVERS LICENSES and go after bank accounts QUICKLY. Unfortunately for those who are honest the system can be unfair as it takes so long for mistakes to be rectified and changes/garnishees to be made or eliminated.

I had no choice as my ex took all the money and redirected everything so I was penniless at the time of our separation. I am quite relieved that we didn't have to deal with child custody as our son is an adult.

Keep us posted on how you make out. If you file with MEP tomorrow, they don't do any collection action for 60 days - might vary in your province and it might be different for CS. You can do everything online here in Alberta - you just fax in your separation/divorce agreement, bank information, etc. and away you go.
 
arabian,

I completely understand about self-employed people manipulating their finances so as to minimize income for CS purposes.

That reminds of his examination on the witness stand, check this out ...

ME: Your Financial Statement of March 2011 shows you had a principle balance owing on your mortgage of $88,000, is that correct?

HIM: Yes

ME: And do you agree that your Financial Statement of March 2012 shows a principle balance owing on your mortgage of $74,000?

HIM: Yes

ME: Would you agree this indicates you paid the principle down by $14,000 over the course of 1 year?

HIM: Yes

ME: Would you agree that in both Financial Statements you've filed in this matter you've indicated that you make bi-weekly payments on your mortgage in the amount of $380 each?

HIM: Yes

ME: And would you agree that you make 26 payments per year?

HIM: Yes

ME: Would you agree that 26 payments of $380 totals $9880?

HIM: I'd have to take your word on it.

ME: Even at a modest interest rate, you were unlikely to pay more than $7000 of that $9880 toward the principle, can you explain how you paid your mortgage down by $14,000 by only making approximately $7,000 in principle payments.

HIM: I don't know.

ME: You don't how you paid twice as much towards your mortgage?

HIM: I don't know, I just make my payments.

ME: You just make the regular payments? No lump sums?

HIM: I just make my payments.

It went on a bit more, but you get the gist ... he was stirring in a big way. Then I went on to question him about his car expenses which was even more damaging than the mortgage issue. He's basically kept $17,000 in his company over the past 3 years by claiming extreme amounts of kms on his personal vehicle, the only problem is that he's a truck driver (long-haul) who was working on the road 4 days a week, had the children for 2 days and claimed over 30,000kms for work purposes on his car - the judge wasn't very impressed with his figures. He claimed only 2000kms for personal use, however under examination it was shown that simply picking up and droppping off the children either to school or my home would require over 10,000kms each year and that doesn't include trips, shopping etc ... His only response was that each and every time he drives with the kids in the car he does *something* work related along the way, but he wouldn't elaborate on what that *something* might be. Once again the judge did not look impressed.

Then I asked him about his current work schedule. He stated he was only working Saturday night to Monday night. At this point the judge interrupted and said to him "You're only working 2 days a week?". Judge had quite the look on her face.

I blasted him with 80 questions and was very happy with the examination. I was later told that the judge and stenographer were very impressed with my examination (research and prep work pays off!).
 
OMG - my ex is a truck driver (owns own company) too only he works locally. He tried last year to have SS eliminated but his figures didn't wash. we've allowed him a certain amount for yearly maintenance on equipment but that goodness I had a brain at the JDR and insisted that he provide original invoices every year. He keeps trying to get the actual truck payments added on to the expenses but the judges always refuse as his payments to to himself (via his sister). It's really pathetic. I'm kind of curious what angle he's going to try this Wednesday when we go to court. His girlfriend types everything up and he just pays the lawyer so when he gets questioned he usually has no clue about the state of his own finances. Dumb and dumber is my name for them.
 
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