Well the Judge bought her sell job and feels that I am controlling, so she ordered sole custody. There was no new evidence from the motion she filed and lost so can I appeal stating that the Judge erred because she based her opinion on my desire to communicate with a restrictive, controlling Ex who manipulated the access of the children from their Father and their communciation with him? The judge made a decision not based on evidence, but on her opinion...this is not Justice
She was awarded Sole Custody, time to appeal...help?
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tugofwar
New member
Controlling in which sense? Did you feel you came across as this? What evidence was brought forth to show your controlling nature? You seemed so confident that things worked in your favor
Controlling?!
Controlling?!
The Judge saw my holding my ex accountable for not taking them to the doctor when they were sick, expecting her to feed my daughter something other than "Vanilla Ice Cream and Lucky Charms", not giving my oldest a chocolate bar with peanuts when my youngest has a peanut allergy, my wanting to go to my oldest's dance class on non access nights....etc.
The Judge states that no parent may impose their will on another Parent in the lives of the children, yes my ex imposed her will by taking them and rstricting my communication with them. The court allowed her to do this with no just reason and the length of time enabled her to create an environment of "stability" that the Judge was not comfortable changing. It's a joke and I'm not sure what to do except to appeal, but I have to prove the judge erred in law, so now I have to find the err
Controlling?!
The Judge saw my holding my ex accountable for not taking them to the doctor when they were sick, expecting her to feed my daughter something other than "Vanilla Ice Cream and Lucky Charms", not giving my oldest a chocolate bar with peanuts when my youngest has a peanut allergy, my wanting to go to my oldest's dance class on non access nights....etc.
The Judge states that no parent may impose their will on another Parent in the lives of the children, yes my ex imposed her will by taking them and rstricting my communication with them. The court allowed her to do this with no just reason and the length of time enabled her to create an environment of "stability" that the Judge was not comfortable changing. It's a joke and I'm not sure what to do except to appeal, but I have to prove the judge erred in law, so now I have to find the err
rustedinnocence
New member
Awe....I'm so sorry
The more cases I hear about, the more I truly don't understand rulings.
The more cases I hear about, the more I truly don't understand rulings.
tugofwar
New member
That totally doesn't make any sense. I know you are not suppose to try to control what goes on at the other parents house. But sometimes we have concerns though not life threatening except for the nut allergy incident and express ( guess depends on how we do it I guess) I think there are way worse controlling parents out there that get away with alot worse than what you have described.
I dont understand....
It's a Gender Bias, the judge stated that she was a "loving, caring nurturing Parent" with no evidence to support that conclusion, in fact I provided evidence to the contrary. The Judge said I was "Intense, focussed and uncompromising" again, with no evidence to support that conclusion. It's obviously a Gender Bias towards the Mother. The sad thing is that the Mother even said on the stand that she believes the children need to spend more time with her because she is the Mother, and no other reason!!! I would think that this is a slam dunk, but I thought that the trial was a slam dunk, the Mother lied on the stand, with no evidence to support her claims, her Father lied on the stand with no evidence to support his claims, they submitted no evidence in any way except their testimony and I provided hundreds of e-mails showing her controlling nature, her refusal to communicate (they do this so they say we CAN'T communicate and when we try harder they say we're overbearing...can't win on that one) and her lack of attention to the children's well being as well as testimony that I was the Primary caregiver when we were together and that she took the children from me without any valid justification....she stole them and used them to force me out of our home, used them to try and force me to sign a deal and has controlled them since day one.......but I'm the one who is controlling.
This is SOO familiar.
Looks like the judge has rationalized it using statements regarding 'mom's behaviour to kids' and 'dad's behaviour to mom'.
That judge should be forced to include in her/his reasoning statements regarding 1) 'dad's behaviour to kids' and 2) 'mom's behaviour to dad'.
But we know the answers why i.e. 1) Cannot possibly be in same league as mom, and 2) Will never be held accountable.
Obviously, since not a lawyer, and don't know full details I can't give an opinion on whether appeal is wise or not, but jeez, this doesn't sound right.
Looks like the judge has rationalized it using statements regarding 'mom's behaviour to kids' and 'dad's behaviour to mom'.
That judge should be forced to include in her/his reasoning statements regarding 1) 'dad's behaviour to kids' and 2) 'mom's behaviour to dad'.
But we know the answers why i.e. 1) Cannot possibly be in same league as mom, and 2) Will never be held accountable.
Obviously, since not a lawyer, and don't know full details I can't give an opinion on whether appeal is wise or not, but jeez, this doesn't sound right.
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Gary M
New member
Nope, sure doesn't. My gut feeling is that there's more to the story than that which was outlined above.
Gary
billiechic
New member
Mine too. hmmmm.
dadtotheend
New member
Did you present positive evidence about your worthiness as a parent as opposed to negative evidence about the mother?
logicalvelocity
Moderator
What sort of relief was requested verses what was ordered? What did the other side request?
The Judge felt that I was overbearing and controlling, yet all my contact was with the children. I would call my oldest every day she wasn't with me, after her Mother agreed via e-mail (submitted in trial). I went to my daughters activities, whether they were on my access nights or not. I never interfered with my ex. I expected my Ex to take them to the Dr when they were sick (She didn't do this and I submitted evidence that she didn't). The Judge felt I was trying to hold my ex to my standards of Parenting. None of this is controlling or overbearing as she has the right to make her decsuions and she still does, without any backlash or interference from me, I simply make my wishes felt, am I wrong to want the children cared for?
My biggest issue is the following statement made by the Judge "No Parent may interfere or disrupt the relationship of the other Parent with the children" She used this against me!! Yet my Ex took the children, used to them to force me from our home and held them hostage throughout the entire legal process, yet because I wanted a shared Parenting agreement and tried to stay involved with the children in a manner in which they were accustomed (My Ex admitted I spent more time with them before the separation), I'm controlling and overbearing....how does that seem accurate, or even close to fair and just?
My biggest issue is the following statement made by the Judge "No Parent may interfere or disrupt the relationship of the other Parent with the children" She used this against me!! Yet my Ex took the children, used to them to force me from our home and held them hostage throughout the entire legal process, yet because I wanted a shared Parenting agreement and tried to stay involved with the children in a manner in which they were accustomed (My Ex admitted I spent more time with them before the separation), I'm controlling and overbearing....how does that seem accurate, or even close to fair and just?
I did present the positives of my interaction with the children, my taking them to the doctor, activities, play dates, specialist appointments, play groups....all of this was thrown back in my face as some form of "competition with the children's Mother". I was depicted as someone who was trying to be better than the Mother by doing these things and then submitting them in trial.
LV, I requested Shared Parenting (2-2-3) as I thought I had enough proof to show that we could communicate when she wanted to, but she just controlled the communication. She shouldn't be able to control communication and then say we can't, that's not correct. She has been asking for Sole all along.
dadtotheend
New member
I'm not trying to trash you here but if you're looking for explantions from your internet friends who know virtually nothing about your family...
Was there a status quo that had the kids living primarily with Mom throughout the legal proceedings? Rightly or wrongly, that would have been a huge determinant of custody. Indeed the status quo is probably the most important consideration.
Presenting literally hundreds of emails that denounce Mom's controlling nature smells very fishy. It sounds like that may have backfired and made you look a little obsessive.
So does calling your eldest every night she wasn't with you. That statement about interfering with the other parent may have evolved from too much calling when the kids were with Mom. Again, just guessing based on limited information.
Positives about the children don't just include taking them to the doctor, play dates etc. It sounds like the judge, rightly or wrongly, perceived that your involvement was strategic. Saying that you were in a competition with Mom gives the impression that the judge thinks you read the manual and were trying to go toe to toe with her on custody determinants.
If that status quo was operating against you leading up to trial, then I hazard that the judge found you two to be in high conflict and that joint custody/shared parenting was not going to work. Someone had to be awarded sole cusody. Had the kids been with you primarily leading up to trial, the ruling may well have gone your way. Again, status quo is sooo important.
I've not really been a CanLii guy around here, but I would be interested in reading the judge's decision when it gets posted up. If you want to share the link, I'm guessing that others will too.
Was there a status quo that had the kids living primarily with Mom throughout the legal proceedings? Rightly or wrongly, that would have been a huge determinant of custody. Indeed the status quo is probably the most important consideration.
Presenting literally hundreds of emails that denounce Mom's controlling nature smells very fishy. It sounds like that may have backfired and made you look a little obsessive.
So does calling your eldest every night she wasn't with you. That statement about interfering with the other parent may have evolved from too much calling when the kids were with Mom. Again, just guessing based on limited information.
Positives about the children don't just include taking them to the doctor, play dates etc. It sounds like the judge, rightly or wrongly, perceived that your involvement was strategic. Saying that you were in a competition with Mom gives the impression that the judge thinks you read the manual and were trying to go toe to toe with her on custody determinants.
If that status quo was operating against you leading up to trial, then I hazard that the judge found you two to be in high conflict and that joint custody/shared parenting was not going to work. Someone had to be awarded sole cusody. Had the kids been with you primarily leading up to trial, the ruling may well have gone your way. Again, status quo is sooo important.
I've not really been a CanLii guy around here, but I would be interested in reading the judge's decision when it gets posted up. If you want to share the link, I'm guessing that others will too.
dadtotheend
New member
No kidding, but that is a tried and true stategy to obtain sole custody. Not being an expert on that, it's hard to advise on how you could better have responded to that.
My knee jerk reaction is that you would want to try to come across as despairing about the whole thing, that you throw your hands up in the air and implore the judge to see that you were desparately seeking to get along and that she was being obstinate.
But there's a fine there between despairing of her conduct and trashing her behaviour. It sounds like the judge formed an opinion that you were engaged in conflict as equally as her. But that's all Monday morning quarterbacking now.
I fear that you will have a very, very tough time finding grounds for appeal.
Canli
Canli
Hey as soon as the link is up, I'd be happy to share it. I'm very confident that the Judge erred in ordering Sole Custody as it isn't in the bets interests of the children. My Ex stole the children, I was the primary caregiver and she admitted to that in Trial when she said I spent more time with the children. The Status Quo was a hostage situation that I attempted to rectify through the only manner I could, negotiation and court. I was awarded extra time in a motion in January as the Judge did not agree with my Ex's claim that I was controlling and overbearing and he saw almost exactly what the Judge saw in Trial. I felt that My Ex controlling of access was an attempt to create a status quo that a jusge wouldn't change and it seems that it may have worked for now. The system is flawed and it's failing the children and specifically MY CHILDREN. I am so frustrated as I did everything I could without getting angry, or making it personal to my Ex. I kept the children at the forefront and they're still getting screwed. I was seeing them every 2nd weekend, an overnight on Tues and 2 hrs on Thurs. The new order has me seeing them 1 day a week for 2 hrs, every second weekend and 1 5 min call every week.......plus I have no say in how they are raised...I have been reduced to an uncle and I've done nothing to deserve it, No Abuse to the Ex or the children, I've paid CS every month without question, used up all my vacation time looking after the children when they were sick or had appointments. I am a Good Father and have shown it, but the Judge is twisting my attempts to stay a Good involved Father into some sick joke to deny the children fair access to their Father..It's not right and I have to appeal even if it puts me on the street.
Canli
Hey as soon as the link is up, I'd be happy to share it. I'm very confident that the Judge erred in ordering Sole Custody as it isn't in the bets interests of the children. My Ex stole the children, I was the primary caregiver and she admitted to that in Trial when she said I spent more time with the children. The Status Quo was a hostage situation that I attempted to rectify through the only manner I could, negotiation and court. I was awarded extra time in a motion in January as the Judge did not agree with my Ex's claim that I was controlling and overbearing and he saw almost exactly what the Judge saw in Trial. I felt that My Ex controlling of access was an attempt to create a status quo that a jusge wouldn't change and it seems that it may have worked for now. The system is flawed and it's failing the children and specifically MY CHILDREN. I am so frustrated as I did everything I could without getting angry, or making it personal to my Ex. I kept the children at the forefront and they're still getting screwed. I was seeing them every 2nd weekend, an overnight on Tues and 2 hrs on Thurs. The new order has me seeing them 1 day a week for 2 hrs, every second weekend and 1 5 min call every week.......plus I have no say in how they are raised...I have been reduced to an uncle and I've done nothing to deserve it, No Abuse to the Ex or the children, I've paid CS every month without question, used up all my vacation time looking after the children when they were sick or had appointments. I am a Good Father and have shown it, but the Judge is twisting my attempts to stay a Good involved Father into some sick joke to deny the children fair access to their Father..It's not right and I have to appeal even if it puts me on the street.
dadtotheend
New member
I don't see how this:
reconciles with this:
Was the first statement what was going on during the marriage?
If so, that status quo during the legal proceedings probably sunk you.
reconciles with this:
Was the first statement what was going on during the marriage?
If so, that status quo during the legal proceedings probably sunk you.
I am very sorry. I wish that all parents would see how valuable 50-50 is to children instead of trying to "win" their children by taking time away from the other parent. If you are doing the right thing, your children will know it when they get older. I am glad to hear that you will not give up. Hope it all works out the best for your kids.
Without any involvement from the OCL or an assessment, it's hard to belive that the children's best interests are being served by an order of this type. It obvious from the evidence that my involvement is good for the children so therefore a reduction in that involvement cannot be good for the children.
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