Shared custody not working

[rosesarered]

Hello everyone!
I have a couple of concerns and would like some feedback.

My ex and I have shared custody. However, it has not been working quite well in my opinion. In his opinion it's been working out great.

For the past few months he does the following.

1. Schedules meetings (he's a real estate agent) during the times when the children are supposed to be with him. He then asks me or his mother to watch them.

2. He is supposed to have them Saturday nights and almost every Saturday he drops them off at his mothers house so he can go partying.

3. He takes a vacation EVERY month with his friends. Yes, every month. And during this time I will take them because if I didn't his mother ONCE AGAIN would take care of them.

I'm starting to feel as though I am sharing custody with the grandparents.

So this March the days will have been as follows.
Myself 17 days
My ex 8 days
His mother 5 days

This doesn't seem ok to me and is making me quite angry with him. We've gotten along ok and I don't want things to change. However when I raise concerns about this he tells me "mind your own business. It's up to me where the kids go on my days".

I guess my question is...
1. What is typical when one parent takes a vacation etc? Are they supposed to make up the days before/after?
2. Is it allowable to be dropping the kids off at a 3rd parties home this much?
3. Do I have the right to know where my children are? Is it "my business"?
4. Can I dispute our custody agreement if this continues?

Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[2boys]

I would dispute this right away. If he wanted shared custody he should have been prepared to 'actually want it'. If I were you, I would keep a journal of everything that is going on, especially with times and dates. I got sole custody because I knew my ex partner would not be able to handle the kids and use a third party who was not physically able. How old are the grandparents? Is leaving your kids with them in your access agreement? You have every right to know where your kids are. Again, document everything (times and dates) and then file a motion at your local courthouse to change your access agreement, or custody agreement. Your ex sounds like he would probably appreciate visitation every other week the way it sounds, so he can have the time to "vacation" and "party". I think even if you self represented a judge would grant your motion. This is just my opinion from what I've been through. It's not so hard to get sole custody if the other party doesn't really want to have the kids around.

 

[rosesarered]

Thanks for your opinion. Hmm that's were my thought process is going. But I know if I dispute this, he will get pissed! I hate rocking the boat cause I'll feel guilty causing stress upon the kids, which I've tried to avoid at all costs.

However, I feel this is something I cannot ignore anymore.

The grandparents are their early 60's. Very loving and great to the kids. But still...I think it's not their job to raise them. It's our job..the mother and father.

 

[billm]

1. Schedules meetings (he's a real estate agent) during the times when the children are supposed to be with him. He then asks me or his mother to watch them.

He is ASKING, if you don't want to then say no. You can't blame him if you say yes.

2. He is supposed to have them Saturday nights and almost every Saturday he drops them off at his mothers house so he can go partying.

Lucky guy knows how to have a good time on a Saturday. Hanging out with grandma sounds nice to me. You should be happy the kids have frequent access to her.

3. He takes a vacation EVERY month with his friends. Yes, every month. And during this time I will take them because if I didn't his mother ONCE AGAIN would take care of them.

The kids are being cared for by family members that say 'yes I will take care of the kids'. Sounds like it is working for dad and the kids. Just not for you.

I'm starting to feel as though I am sharing custody with the grandparents.

Ahhh, what is wrong with that?

So this March the days will have been as follows.
Myself 17 days
My ex 8 days
His mother 5 days

aka 17 days by you 13 days by him. Sounds like the kids are being cared for by people who love them 24/7.

This doesn't seem ok to me and is making me quite angry with him.

Understandable if you focus on it. You have to let this go. You are half of a parent team with equal rights. You are not married anymore, and different parenting styles have to be tolerated.

We've gotten along ok and I don't want things to change.

So don't

However when I raise concerns about this he tells me "mind your own business. It's up to me where the kids go on my days".

That is true, you should be able to voice your concerns (at least once or twice), but ultimately it IS up to him. Such is divorce and kids and parents.

1. What is typical when one parent takes a vacation etc? Are they supposed to make up the days before/after?

Yes. So if you want those days with out the kids, then make the deal BEFORE you take them on his time while he is on vacation.

2. Is it allowable to be dropping the kids off at a 3rd parties home this much?

I would not call grandma a 'third party'. But if it is safe then it is allowable as he is the parent in charge of the kids at that time.

3. Do I have the right to know where my children are? Is it "my business"?

Yes, the right to know, and the right to have input, just not the right to control.

4. Can I dispute our custody agreement if this continues?

You can dispute anything - it just costs time, money, aggravation, etc....

Any feedback would be appreciated.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but that is my feedback. I am glad that you have been getting along, and that it seems that the kids have a good support system. Be positive that grandma is around and if you don't want to watch the kids as much as you do then don't - it is up to you, not him.

 

[billm]

Your ex sounds like he would probably appreciate visitation every other week the way it sounds, so he can have the time to "vacation" and "party". I think even if you self represented a judge would grant your motion. This is just my opinion from what I've been through. It's not so hard to get sole custody if the other party doesn't really want to have the kids around.

How can you tell that from what she has posted? The guy is using his grandmother and the mother while he is WORKING to help look after the kids. Otherwise, he likes adult time (Saturday nights and a monthly vacation). This in no way says that he does not want to be the father to his kids and have significant custody to raise them and be with them. More than the stupid every other weekend crap that some people profress is somehow still being a parent.

Having your mother and the kids mother voluntarily help in taking care kids DOES NOT constitute something that a judge would view as a need to change to sole custody.

This is what is so horrible about divorce, people have to looking over their shoulder to make sure no one is plotting to take their kids away from them. Single parents and married couples don't have this inhumane concept, and neither should we, the people of separation and divorce!!!!

 

[rosesarered]

Well I can see some of your points. However, ...

So who do I go to when school work is not completed? Grandma? Because a 60 immigrant lady is not going to be able to help them with it. Or the father? O wait...where is he again???? Cayman islands? Or at the nightclub? Hmmm.

This is why I am taking them more often than I should. Their grades were slipping from B's to C's.

So really it's good for Dad...not good for the kids in my opinion.

 

[rosesarered]

Also, I forgot to add. Yes I have asked him to simply switch a few days around to accomodate his vacations and that way he can still have the children a day or two extra before or after.
He refused because he then has to work "extra" to make up for the vacation. So it was unsuccessful.

 

[billm]

So really it's good for Dad...not good for the kids in my opinion.

Well you can't pick your parents....oh no wait....YOU want to pick them for your kids....YOU.

So is that is the system you want? - Upon divorce, the parents are judged who is the better parent (you in this case by your own judgement) and then sole custody given to that parent. Is that the system you want?

In my world you are a parent, you have a right to half the custody of your child, unless, like any other parent, married or not, you are not legally capable of being a parent. You yourself decide if you want to exercise that right, not the person you no longer really get along with that well.

Hey, maybe I am a better parent than you - maybe I can raise your kids if I find the right judge in your world. I've always wanted a larger family....

 

[rosesarered]

I've come onto to this forum to get different opinions and of course some I might not agree with. Which is fine because it would give me different perspectives, which is healthy.

Bill, I'm not sure what your story is. However, you sound incredibly bitter. Your anger comes across as mean and very rude.
Thank you for your earlier feedback. I appreciate it.
However now your messages are sounding destructive.
Please refrain from posting any further as I am not looking for conflict but for constructive feedback.

 

[billm]

Please refrain from posting any further as I am not looking for conflict but for constructive feedback.

Sorry, but you can't control this public forum, that is the point of it! My situation is totally fair and I am not in conflict with my ex, and I have my kids half the time which was implicitley agreed upon as obvious and I have not been to court, and we used lawyers very very little.

I am not bitter, well maybe a little , and I certainly call em like I see em, but your post really upsets me because I am MORALLY opposed to the concenpt that one parent can decide and take action upon the custody of another, thus the feeling you get of unconstrutive feedback. Its bad enough the marriage ends, but then someone wants to take your kids away...yuck.

My purpose is soley to be constructive, all things and people considered, the kids, you, and your ex. For you to oppose my input to such an extent as to ask me to be silent suggests to me that you did not come he for anything other than unconditional support in your decisions, rather than what you call 'constuctive feedback'.

 

[standing on the sidelines]

what is wrong with the kids spending time with his mother? When you have the kids in your care do your parents get to see them without you?

He is a real estate agent and he has to work when the market is hot to make up for he times nothing seems to be selling. I an totally understand that. AS for dropping the kids off so he can go out and have a life, maybe you guys can have alternate Saturdays. Why should you have all your saturdays free to go do what you want, while he has the kids every sat and you expect him to stay home. At least he asks you or his mother to look after the kids when he needs it. Would you prefer a babysitter? Do you use a babysitter?

As for the grades and school work not completed, I agree with you there. You need to sit down with dad and go over that stuff with him. How old are the kids? I take it the are pre teens so need the extra supervision with homework etc?

 

[2boys]

I don't agree with the notion that different parents have different parenting styles and so that gives each the license to do what they want with the kids. Your ex partner should not be able to avoid responsibility and avoid spending time with the kids during his access time, just because he can use his parents whenever he wants. I don't know your situation, but sometimes grandparents have a hard time saying "no" even though they are tired and maybe can't handle watching kids all the time. Could it be that they are intimidated by your ex? And I don't agree with billm saying "good for him that he chooses to spend Saturday nights partying and knows how to have a good time," instead of spending quality time with the kids. HUH? Why isn't watching a movie and hanging out with the kids having a good time if he wants shared custody??? Unless grandma is included in your custody agreement, if you feel that your children are not getting adequate care for any reason, then take it to court. If they can't even help with homework then what else can't they do? Again, a grandparent is not a parent, and grandma's house shouldn't be a dumping ground. Contact your local Family Law Information Center regarding changing the custody arrangement. Don't let people on here intimidate you with their heated opinions. There are settings on this form to weed them out in your profile settings.

 

[Foredeck]

I have to agree with Bill on this one. You might not like everything he does, but do you think your ex likes everything you do? A separation is not easy, and there is a lot of bending to be done on both sides.

I would count yourself lucky that he's not just dropping them off at a strange babysitter.

You knew how he was before you had a child, and you accepted to have one with him then. But now that you're no longer with him, that's no longer acceptable?

I realize that this is not easy, but I would pick my battles and not worry about this.

 

[Suchislife]

rosesarered,
IMO, taking 2boys advice to go back to court to alter the custody arrangement would be a huge mistake.
Your Ex has been granted shared custody. You cannot go back with such invalid reasons such as "Your Honour, I want to have sole custody because he goes out too much." You need to have a better argument than that. the most you would be able to argue is that you have first dibs on 'childcare' when he needs it. And you do. There are many parents with limited access that would love to have their Ex call up and ask them to watch the kids when childcare is needed. You should consider yourself lucky. If you wish to refuse, then do so.

As far as schoolgrades slipping, the blame falls on the students. To place the blame on the father is ludicrous. There are many, many factors that could affect dropping marks.

I sense a hint of jealousy, actually. If your Ex wants to go out Saturday nights so be it. His life isn't over. His new single life is just beginning. Life doesn't end when you have children. It is very important to take time for yourself. Kudo's to him for not moping around. Same goes for vacations.

And in Billm's defense, in no way did his post(s) portray anger and bitterness. He took the time to answer each of your concerns. If everyone adjusted their profile filter options to eliminate his posts the forum would be without constructive, well thought out responses from someone who has been there done that, got the tee-shirt.

 

[Daba]

Hi,
I am in a similar situation to you, with the grandparents being used as a dumping ground, and just like you it really upsets me as when my x and I were together they were not part of the children's lives due to personal-cultural differences AND the father's own choice not to have them involved (I tried and tried to get them involved...but he didn't want it). But suddenly when we were separated, it is ok to have them hugely involved, to the point that they are the main caretakers during his periods with them.
But despite the fact that this bothers me, I keep my mouth shut. They are decent people who do love their grandchildren, they probably have gifts that they can share that I can't and they can share their culture which is not my own. And I prefer them over some strange babysitter who has no emotional connection.
I do think that the school work has to be addressed. If the kids need to be monitored more closely then your x has a big responsibility here to do that or make sure that there is someone around who can if his mother isn't able. Kids are kids, and don't always make the wisest decisions about doing their homework vs watching tv and as a parent your x needs to realize that, but it would probably be best if you can bring it up in a diplomatic way that does not blame his mother-just say 'look the grades are slipping-how can we work together to improve upon this'?
Good luck.

 

[rosesarered]

Thanks to everyone on their feedback.

I agree...court is the last option for me. If I wanted a battle I would have done it ages ago....when he refused to pay me spousal support and wanted shared custody to save even more money. But any hooooo....

And in response...I have not used a babysitter in 3 years. (Except once when my friend babysat so I could go to the doctor)
Not even my parents. I schedule my "extra curricular" activities and social events around my kids. And yes they do see my side of the family on holidays when we all sit together and enjoy each others company.

I also work long hours as does he. I actually run my own business and balancing the two is hard. But I do manage somehow. I don't inconvenience people because I chose this line of work. It's not my ex's problem nor my childrens.
He chose real estate...so he should learn how to balance.

And YES, I would gladly switch days so he can go out at least every second weekend. It doesn't matter to me which days I get. It's all the same to me. He chose the scheduling, not me. I offered to give him weekends alone but he said no
Heck. But for some reason he doesn't want to switch it.

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive. But it's hard.
He just picked them up 5 minutes ago....after returning from yet another vacation. So he hasn't seen them in 13 days. And he has now informed me that tonight he is yet again going to drop them off at his mothers so he can go to a stag.
I shut up...as many of you have advised. We'll see how that goes for now.

My preferable option is get a mediator or a counselor etc. to help us through this peacefully. Because grandma is not raising them and that's that. On that issue I won't bend. But days/times/ I will.

 

[2boys]

If you're choosing to shut up as you say then you'll have to put up with the way he's treating your kids forever. In my opinion it almost sounds like you're afraid of him. As billm said, though, if you're saying yes to everything even when you don't want to then things will never change.

 

[billm]

... Because grandma is not raising them and that's that. On that issue I won't bend...

Is compromise the essence of diplomacy or is compromise the language of the devil....

 

[jankes71]

Is compromise the essence of diplomacy or is compromise the language of the devil....

this is just ridiculous. if the father wanted shared custody, then he should be participating in their upbringing. We all make sacrifices for our children and as a mother if I was just picking my kids up for a visit, I certainly wouldn't be dropping them off at my mother's so I could go drink. I am not sure why anyone is sticking up for this guy, except for the fact he is a man and the men on here are making it personal.
If I were you, I would make a petition to the court ( if after talking to him and he doesn't agree) that if he is not looking after the kids then you get first dibs on having them, before anyone else. Talk to his mother as well, maybe there are certain days she would like to spend time with them. Eventually as your kids get older and his lack of attention continues they will just eventually not want to go there anymore and then you can look at making changes to the agreement. Talk to your kids, if they are happy with the way things are, leave it for now.

 

[billm]

...if the father wanted shared custody, then he should be participating in their upbringing.

What do you mean by 'if'. He has shared custody, therefore he must want it. He is parenting the way he sees fit, it is reasonable (from a legal perspective, and from the perspective of half of the posters here in this thread). It is a shared job and discussing with him things of concern is part of it, however there is a line that should not be crossed and that is to TELL him how to be a parent and how to run his life with respect to that.

if I was just picking my kids up for a visit, I certainly wouldn't be dropping them off at my mother's so I could go drink.

Great, but he would. You are two different people.

I am not sure why anyone is sticking up for this guy, except for the fact he is a man and the men on here are making it personal.

Maybe this has some truth, maybe there are stereotypes coming into play, a man may be more likely to behave this way, and that should not be condemned, but just understood that men and women, as are people, are different, and we don't all think and act the same way, probaly to the benifit of our kids. We all have a right to be with our kids and raise them as we see fit, not as others, even the ex, see fit.