Shared Custody - Child's Choice

You know Wilson... many, many posters have offered you advice and words of wisdom... each and every post has been responded to with negativity by you. What do you want posters here to tell you? What more could anyone on this forum offer you? You are not opened to listening to what posters are saying. Young dad offered a very insightful post and you totally brushed it off.

You say it's not about money but your very first post in this thread stated your ex is asking for more money, almost double, just because she has the kids two more weeks a month, then went on to say you are fighting your ex on the increase because she cannot demonstrate the need for more money because she has been doing fine in the past with the cs she has received.

All your posts are about money, they are not about your relationship with your kids. That is a sad. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter. CS follows the kids. You have a very, very, very weak case for PA. Usually it takes years to prove this, your kids moved not too long ago.

No one here can help you until you understand that there has been a material change in circumstances, your teenage children have decided to live with their mom, that is the change.

I feel sorry for your kids...

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
stripes said:
Unfortunately, I do think there are good odds that letters from your friends will end up in a birdcage. These are not objective accounts. If you had nine independent psychological assessments or nine report from professionals who are not socially connected to you, it might be different. It's not that difficult to get people to write letters saying "my friend xyz is a wonderful parent and his/her ex is terrible!".

If you want to go ahead with some kind of court action, go for it. It's not the people on this forum that you have to convince. I think what we are saying is that a) child support follows the child; and b) courts will not give you a gold star for being a good parent and put your ex in the naughty chair for being a bad one.
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Again, just more assumptions drawing conclusions where the facts of the matter are not known.

You have no idea what is in my letters. You have no idea what is said about one parent at the expense of the other, or if that is even the tone of the letters at all. You basically know almost nothing. Following your line of reasoning, maybe everyone that sits on a jury in this country should first go through a " psychological assessments" to meet your threshold. I don't even know how to begin to understand that?

I think I'm pretty much done here. Thank you for those folks who have been very helpful and understanding...you know who you are. The others that use this forum as a "hobby" to pass the time, thank you for trying.

Cheers!
 
Berner_Faith said:
You know Wilson... many, many posters have offered you advice and words of wisdom... each and every post has been responded to with negativity by you. What do you want posters here to tell you? What more could anyone on this forum offer you? You are not opened to listening to what posters are saying. Young dad offered a very insightful post and you totally brushed it off.

You say it's not about money but your very first post in this thread stated your ex is asking for more money, almost double, just because she has the kids two more weeks a month, then went on to say you are fighting your ex on the increase because she cannot demonstrate the need for more money because she has been doing fine in the past with the cs she has received.

All your posts are about money, they are not about your relationship with your kids. That is a sad. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter. CS follows the kids. You have a very, very, very weak case for PA. Usually it takes years to prove this, your kids moved not too long ago.

No one here can help you until you understand that there has been a material change in circumstances, your teenage children have decided to live with their mom, that is the change.

I feel sorry for your kids...

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
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Thanks for your opinion, but maybe you should read all of the responses I made (especially to people who actually stayed on topic) instead of focusing on how I responded to you. What kind of person finishes off with "I feel sorry for your kids..." ?!?! Sorry if I wasn't interested in your agenda.
 
LOL I see ODF as a place to go and get feedback from people. Before ODF I didn't know a thing about family law or that CanLii existed.

As my litigation comprised primarily about Spousal Support (yes I receive indefinite), you can imagine the hard time people gave me when I first signed on. I've been called names MANY times. Mods have also threatened to ban me. I've learned to tone my posts down (most of the time). I've also learned to take constructive criticism.

As with any forum, you will receive good advice and some useless advice. Often people are wrong..... but more often posters are correct or have a valid point worth considering.

It's free advice.
 
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WilsonWilsonWilson said:
Thanks for your opinion, but maybe you should read all of the responses I made (especially to people who actually stayed on topic) instead of focusing on how I responded to you. What kind of person finishes off with "I feel sorry for your kids..." ?!?! Sorry if I wasn't interested in your agenda.
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I have read all your responses and every one of them are negative in response, telling posters they are making assumptions and know nothing, Yada yada, but best of luck paying those court costs.

And yes I do feel sorry for your kids, their dad cares more about money than he does about his children. .. that is my opinion on everything you have posted.

I'm out... you will be back and eventually will see the light, just like many new posters

Sent from my SM-T560NU using Tapatalk
 
WilsonWilsonWilson said:
"I was alienated from my father and my partner has been alienated from his youngest."



How do I know any of what you are saying is true?
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How do we know what youre saying is true? At this point you sound like a controlling jerk intent on making your kids do what you want. I have a feeling your issues are because they cant stand you and see living with their mother as the best solution.

Good luck to you.
 
arabian said:
LOL I see ODF as a place to go and get feedback from people. Before ODF I didn't know a thing about family law or that CanLii existed.

As my litigation comprised primarily about Spousal Support (yes I receive indefinite), you can imagine the hard time people gave me when I first signed on. I've been called names MANY times. Mods have also threatened to ban me. I've learned to tone my posts down (most of the time). I've also learned to take constructive criticism.

As with any forum, you will receive good advice and some useless advice. Often people are wrong..... but more often posters are correct or have a valid point worth considering.

It's free advice.
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I here you sister...or brother...I don't want to make assumptions!! :)
 
WilsonWilsonWilson said:
Thanks my friend, but you speak as if you have lived in my house the past 10 years! I appreciate your anecdotal evidence of your experience, but I'm really getting discourage by having to argue with people on this thread about stuff they assume but really know nothing about.

1) How do you know I am trying to get my kids back to live 50/50 with both parents? Where have I ever said this?

2) How do you know what my ex has said in her submissions into Court that are dishonest and inflammatory? How do you know if letters of reference from people who have been witness to what has been happening do not work to combat that character assassination?

3) How do you know how much money I have to spend on righting many of the wrongs that have taken place here that have nothing to do with anything I have done wrong, and why do you care?

How do you know any of this?!?!

If you are just trolling around the internet looking to give your opinion on something you are vaguely familiar with, message me directly and I'd be fine to converse with you, but this is not what I came on this forum looking for.
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WOW! Your over-reaction to my post (and others) is very telling, as are your negative and hostile responses to other posters on here.

Calling people trolls and liars because they say something you don't agree with or want to hear is harsh and rude.

I am no troll and this forum is not a hobby for me. Not that I owe you an explanation but maybe (but not likely) it will break through your defensive attitude.

Like you, I'm a self-represented litigant and parent who wants the best for my child.

I'm battle weary and still quite traumatized from spending over 2 years in the meat grinder called the family court system with a side order of criminal charges based on false allegation of historical domestic violence that never happened. I've been reported to CAS for sexually, physically and emotionally abusing my son (again, never happened).

Maybe you are the troll or a liar, but I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are like the rest of us on here and just looking for answers and support.
 
Yes we do learn a lot on ODF and Wilson, it's not worth it to fight against the posters that you might think had offended you in any ways. Best advice, ignore them and just grab the information that seems to be the best for you. I'm a very passive person and if you look at my case, I was charged at my workplace for saying the wrong thing at the wrong place. I have no family and close friends around here so the only people I could talk to were my co-workers. WRONG! I'm paying a fare price for that now. To add to the difficulty of going through a litigious divorce and criminal charge, I have posters with direct attack and with assumptions. I don't deal with those... I ask my questions, seek for advice and look at the related comments. The other stuff is only to light you and there is no need to reply to them because... this is what they are looking for so don't fall in the ghetto.

You see, going through your thread, you might have just responded to one of my concern with my three kids. Since I lost access to my house (and kids) last April, I've been living 15 minutes away from both schools that my kids are attending. I was looking to buy something very close to the schools so that my children could walk and stop by anytime they want. But with the bs**t going on with the criminal case and the fact that I couldn't get a decent house at a reasonable price, I've decided to buy somewhere else cheaper but with all and more I was looking for. I was very happy with my choice. It's a charm and the kids really loved it when they came for a couple of visit this summer. Then, no more visits. Access denied because my STBX suddenly had a safety concern for the kids related to my criminal case. I haven't seen my kids since last July. Over 5 months. I was feeling sad and depressed. Ask my new gf if we made the right choice of living where we are. Maybe if we would have wait to buy something closer to the schools, it would have been an incentive so that the children choose the shared custody and come to live with us. Here, kids won't be able to stop for a quick visit as it is too far. And I kept asking and thinking if I made the right choice and after looking at your story... I guest I did.

If the kids decide to stay with their mother (or the judge decide / OCL recommendations... and so on...) I won't feel sorry for living in a house we dislike and waiting for surprise visits of the kids that would had probably never happen... Also facing financial issues because of payment of full table CS. Na.... Thank you Wilson for your thread, I have no more doubts. If the kids ever decide they want to come at my place... I'll do the driving with pleasure because this is where we found happiness and the kids enjoy the new place.

I do hope your kids will continue with the 50/50 regime as it should be in their best interest to maintain maximum contact with both parents. Good luck to you.
 
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YoungDad23 said:
WOW! Your over-reaction to my post (and others) is very telling, as are your negative and hostile responses to other posters on here.

Calling people trolls and liars because they say something you don't agree with or want to hear is harsh and rude.

I am no troll and this forum is not a hobby for me. Not that I owe you an explanation but maybe (but not likely) it will break through your defensive attitude.

Like you, I'm a self-represented litigant and parent who wants the best for my child.

I'm battle weary and still quite traumatized from spending over 2 years in the meat grinder called the family court system with a side order of criminal charges based on false allegation of historical domestic violence that never happened. I've been reported to CAS for sexually, physically and emotionally abusing my son (again, never happened).

Maybe you are the troll or a liar, but I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are like the rest of us on here and just looking for answers and support.
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I'm very sorry to hear you had to go through with all that and I hope and pray it works out for you. We don't have to be friends and I don't have to agree with you for me to have empathy for your plight. All the best.
 
mafia007 said:
Yes we do learn a lot on ODF and Wilson, it's not worth it to fight against the posters that you might think had offended you in any ways. Best advice, ignore them and just grab the information that seems to be the best for you. I'm a very passive person and if you look at my case, I was charged at my workplace for saying the wrong thing at the wrong place. I have no family and close friends around here so the only people I could talk to were my co-workers. WRONG! I'm paying a fare price for that now. To add to the difficulty of going through a litigious divorce and criminal charge, I have posters with direct attack and with assumptions. I don't deal with those... I ask my questions, seek for advice and look at the related comments. The other stuff is only to light you and there is no need to reply to them because... this is what they are looking for so don't fall in the ghetto.

You see, going through your thread, you might have just responded to one of my concern with my three kids. Since I lost access to my house (and kids) last April, I've been living 15 minutes away from both schools that my kids are attending. I was looking to buy something very close to the schools so that my children could walk and stop by anytime they want. But with the bs**t going on with the criminal case and the fact that I couldn't get a decent house at a reasonable price, I've decided to buy somewhere else cheaper but with all and more I was looking for. I was very happy with my choice. It's a charm and the kids really loved it when they came for a couple of visit this summer. Then, no more visits. Access denied because my STBX suddenly had a safety concern for the kids related to my criminal case. I haven't seen my kids since last July. Over 5 months. I was feeling sad and depressed. Ask my new gf if we made the right choice of living where we are. Maybe if we would have wait to buy something closer to the schools, it would have been an incentive so that the children choose the shared custody and come to live with us. Here, kids won't be able to stop for a quick visit as it is too far. And I kept asking and thinking if I made the right choice and after looking at your story... I guest I did.

If the kids decide to stay with their mother (or the judge decide / OCL recommendations... and so on...) I won't feel sorry for living in a house we dislike and waiting for surprise visits of the kids that would had probably never happen... Also facing financial issues because of payment of full table CS. Na.... Thank you Wilson for your thread, I have no more doubts. If the kids ever decide they want to come at my place... I'll do the driving with pleasure because this is where we found happiness and the kids enjoy the new place.

I do hope your kids will continue with the 50/50 regime as it should be in their best interest to maintain maximum contact with both parents. Good luck to you.
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Thank you for this my friend. You are a shining lighthouse while I navigate a rocky shore...and this place is full of rocks. I feel like I dressed up in a fox costume and decided to take a shortcut through a hen house and got nearly pecked to death!!:eek:

You seem to be one of the rare ones here. A lot of people have a lot of anger streaming through their veins because of what they have gone through and then take it out on others. Then they get offended when someone with the same right to be angry bites back. I wish I could be more like you and just brush it off, but it's really kinda fun sometimes to lob a few serves back and see how they handle those. Me bad! :rolleyes:
 
You only have two choices. Pay proper table child support which reflects the current living arrangements, or further distance your teenagers by fighting the child support motion. Child support is not awarded based on how you think the other parent is performing as a parent. It is based on percentage of time spent with the parents.

Given the children's ages, it would likely be a losing battle, both financially and emotionally to fight their current chosen residence with mom.

Spare yourself and the kids the battle and try to repair the relationship between you and the kids. Try a Sunday brunch or plan a nice evening with no pressure. They will soon be adults so think more of the relationship you would like to have as they mature.
 
Might be helpful for the OP:

Scrivo v. Scrivo

CanLII - 2012 ONSC 2727 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2013 ONSC 2364 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2013 ONSC 4655 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2014 ONSC 3779 (CanLII)

Parent didn't encourage child to go to access visits. Extreme case with a parent actually egged the other parent's car.

Note: Child got to decide at 15 despite the contempt against the parent and a 20,000 cost award against that parent.

Moral of the story: At 15, a court will not force a child to go to access visits they do not wish to attend and will respect that.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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As for henpecking at one another, we're all in the same boat here; victims of a slow-moving, hidebound family law system and exes in various states of unreasonableness. We're all better off not focusing our bitterness and anger on each other where it doesn't belong.

The veterans have a lot of advice to offer to the newcomers, and in some cases it's a harsh wake-up to the reality of family law and how unfair it can feel. It's also VERY good practice for how an opposing lawyer may pick apart your arguments in court.

You have to learn to manage your emotions and focus on attacking all this legal stuff with logic, documentation and precedents. A judge isn't going to accept a "my neighbour says he got a good deal" example. CanLII citings are necessary.

In your case, the law says that as the children are more than 60% with one parent, therefore that parent is owed table CS from the other parent. The law doesn't usually care how or why the children got there, it just cares that one parent is incurring all the expenses.
 
YoungDad23 said:
Have faith that you have been a good parent and that a lot of what you taught your kids over the years has stuck in their brains and your efforts to provide them with a healthy, structured home will be appreciated down the road.

They will realize their mother chose to be an indulgent "buddy" parent someday and they won't respect her for it in the end.
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For a young person you are very wise YoungDad. :)
 
Tayken said:
Might be helpful for the OP:

Scrivo v. Scrivo

CanLII - 2012 ONSC 2727 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2013 ONSC 2364 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2013 ONSC 4655 (CanLII)
CanLII - 2014 ONSC 3779 (CanLII)

Parent didn't encourage child to go to access visits. Extreme case with a parent actually egged the other parent's car.

Note: Child got to decide at 15 despite the contempt against the parent and a 20,000 cost award against that parent.

Moral of the story: At 15, a court will not force a child to go to access visits they do not wish to attend and will respect that.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Thanks for this.

I'm not trying to force my kids to live anywhere...I actually never was from the beginning. Many people here make that assumption, but they have no clue. I told my kids from the beginning that I did not want to be the bad guy and tell them that their choice was not one they could make. That might have given me other problems that would be worse than what I ended up with if I had done that.

What I do know without a shred of doubt in my mind is that if their mother had not encouraged them to do what they did, but had instead honoured the agreement we had to parent these kids together, they would still be living equally at each house. I am basically not a parent anymore. Anyone that has had this happen to them knows what I am talking about. What was done is now DONE! I don't expect a court to order my kids to do anything at this point and I'm not sure I would even want that anyway.

All I know is that at one point in this whole thing I spoke to two of my kids alone heart-to-heart and they told me in no uncertain terms that they were going to resume living with us and there was a lot of things we would change to make it easier for them having to lug stuff back and forth...like duplicate as much as possible at both houses. Then the kids went off on an east coast vacation with their mother and something happened. They came back and we did not hear from them for almost a month. Obviously something had taken place that changed the kids mind...undoing everything I had done to repair the small rift it was at the beginning.

The mistake I made (and I've yet to hear any logical argument that I did wrong) was to confront my kids about the "understanding" we had come to. My ex responded by acting like a bodyguard jumping out in front of them to protect them from being unbrainwashed. This was all done with me and the kids by text and I hope and wish that if need be I can introduce those into my defense to prove that I was doing only what any caring loving father would do to teach his kids right from wrong and fair from unfair.

If asking for more CS now was a byproduct of the way things went that would be one thing. But if asking for it now as a means to an end to achieve the goal you had set out to reach from the beginning, that's completely another.

That in my opinion is why they call them "guidelines" and not rules or laws! They are not an entitlement that you get regardless of behaviour. At least that is how I have read in in many court cases already!
 
WilsonWilsonWilson said:
What I do know without a shred of doubt in my mind is that if their mother had not encouraged them to do what they did, but had instead honoured the agreement we had to parent these kids together, they would still be living equally at each house.
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Quite possibly true, but irrelevant.

I am basically not a parent anymore.
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You are a financially devastated parent who is being treated unfairly by the system, but you are still a parent.


The mistake I made (and I've yet to hear any logical argument that I did wrong)
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The reason you haven't heard any such arguments is that it is completely irrelevant if you were right or wrong. You still have not understood that one big point. Unless you are going to prove alienation, alienation didn't happen. Even if you somehow manage to prove alienation (and not living with you is not even close to alienation) you are still going to have to pay CS.

Is that unfair? Of course it is. Who ever led you to believe that any of this was fair?

Child support is the right of the child, and the mechanism of child support is to improve the life of the custodial parent and hope that it helps the child.

To reiterate, child support is the right of the child. Therefore, it is completely unaffected by parental misconduct.

Are there fringe cases where that wavers a bit? Of course, but your case sounds like it is closer to average than fringe, I'm sorry to say.



was to confront my kids about the "understanding" we had come to. My ex responded by acting like a bodyguard jumping out in front of them to protect them from being unbrainwashed. This was all done with me and the kids by text and I hope and wish that if need be I can introduce those into my defense to prove that I was doing only what any caring loving father would do to teach his kids right from wrong and fair from unfair.
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Irrelevant. Nobody cares whether you were a good father. The judges don't care if you were a good father. Nobody cares if their mother is a bad mother. The judges don't care if the mother is a bad mother. She has the kids in her house, she isn't abusing them in a way that attracts the attention of CAS, therefore she gets the CS money.

If asking for more CS now was a byproduct of the way things went that would be one thing. But if asking for it now as a means to an end to achieve the goal you had set out to reach from the beginning, that's completely another.
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You are not as unique as you think. Receiving child support is awesome, and many people are willing to get very dirty to get their hands on it.
 
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