Section 7 Expenses Post-Secondary College Tuition

J

JCL

New member
Hi folks,

Looking for some collective wisdom, so I'm trying to start a new thread. I'm in the process of registering with MEP and want to know if anyone can answer some of my questions.

Background:

Divorce is final, but ex has just decided to stop paying son's US college tuition. Long backstory with prep school in another province for 2 years, to support family plan to send son to US college to play NCAA sport. Now is finishing 2nd year of college , honour roll, starting lineup on team, etc. Have emails to support ex's involvement in the process with the college, stated how much he'd be willing to pay, how much he planned to set aside in TFSA, etc. Ex was recently audited by CRA for incorrectly claiming his CS payments as tax deductible. Got angry that he's not getting any deductions and coincidentally decided to only pay equal amount of the tuition of our other child who attends university locally and lives with me (though will likely have to go elsewhere for graduate work), so the cost differential is enormous. When I read through CanLii, Farden Factors seem to be in our son's favour. Divorce judgement lists proportionate percentages for Section 7 costs. Is this enough detail for MEP? Can I register with MEP, include my Divorce Judgement, as well as an invoice showing that the tuition has been paid this last semester, along with my cancelled cheques? Or do I need to go to court, to get a new order detailing the actual arrears?
 
I believe MEP and FRO both require same/similar wording in the Order so perhaps someone on here with experience with FRO can help.
 
We have this issue.

FRO will NOT (I repeat NOT) enforce anything that isnt strictly laid out in your order. Which means if your order doesnt say something like NAME is responsible for $2000 tuition, $2000 residence and $2000 books, you are out of luck trying to get it back.

My best advice is this: calculate the entire cost of school for kid 1 (U.S. Kid) at the Canadian exchange rate. Subtract any grants, bursaries etc from that cost. (If kid was awarded a scholarship technically that is supposed to cover his portion of the costs). Next divide it in 3. 1/3 is kids cost (scholarship--if the scholarship is more than his portion, take the extra off the 2/3). This is where it gets tricky...our lawyer calculated the remaining 2/3 minus the tax benefits but some people on this forum lost their minds that the tax benefit goes to the kid. Also, not sure how taxes work for U.S. Schools. You can calculate it both ways. You reduce the 2/3 by the tax benefit. Then take that total and calculate his proportionate share. Thats total 1.

Do the same for kid 2. Total cost of tuition, books, other fees, travel if she has to drive etc. (you wont calculate living expenses as shes at home). Thats total 2.

Next you calculate CS for kid 1 as four months full table (if he comes home) and divide it by 12. Add that amount to the monthly CS for kid 2. Go back and calculate the last whatever amount of months he hasnt being paying this amount.

You take totals 1 and 2 and add them together. You then either add or subtract the CS amount.

You then take the amount (show your calculations) and you tell him this is what he owes and if he doesnt accept it you will be filing a motion to recover these costs by MEP.

You also call a lawyer as youre going to need a new court order for all these costs going forward.

All is just my advice but this is how our lawyer laid it out and how we're calculating. My partner is the payor and the ex refuses to supply receipts etc. when she does, this is how we were instructed to calculate it by our lawyer.

Bottom line, without a proper order, these agencies do jack squat. You can try to submit but he'll probably reject it.
 
Whew...thanks for that info! You kind of confirmed my worst fears...that I need to complete an affidavit for my lawyer essentially proving the Farden Factors, get a court order detailing the arrears and then give that to MEP? I've already tried reasoning with him directly, so giving him the calculations is fruitless. I've also explained to him that our Divorce Judgment lists the Section 7 as proportionate to income, so he may actually have to pay more than the 1/3 that we mutually agreed upon as well as legal costs for breaching the agreement. Just trying to figure out how specific MEP needs the order to be. Thanks for your help with this.
 
Just to add...I dont know how offers to settle, reasonable offers or costs work. I said all this above so you can calculate a reasonable offer and provide it to him. You give him this chance. I remember you saying that its been a struggle to get him to agree to any of this so you will more than likely have to go to court. Having it all calculated and showing youre being reasonable will help.

What happened to him means nothing to his obligations. You have an order that he has to pay. It doesnt matter what he thinks. Remember he also thought he could get away with claiming shit he wasnt allowed. Just do what you can to be reasonable and up front but definitely call a lawyer and start moving forward on getting the proper orders for MEP to do this work for you. From the sounds of it you will need it. Getting that stuff moving will also assist.

You will need an order for these costs. Thats your bottom line. You will need to have specific costs broken down. My thinking is that getting in front of this with all your calculations will help you in the long run.
 
Section 7 Expenses Post-Secondary College Tuition

Youre not going to get anywhere with MEP. These agencies do nothing unless you have an order that says "he will pay XXX" they wont do anything. Get your calculations together and file the motion for payment and costs going forward. Then you'll just submit it all to MEP and they do the recovery.

I dont know anything about the Farden Factors. All I know is that there is case law and guidelines that outline what parents are responsible for. Every case is unique of course but theres a bottom line that he has to pay a share. He cant get away with paying nothing.
 
rockscan - I'm curious about this area (I have no personal experience in this area) and logged on to MEP Alberta and found the attached information regarding the enforcement of section 7. Is FRO different than MEP? Please scan through and let me know if you think the OP still has to do what you had to do:

https://justice.alberta.ca/programs_services/mep/InfoSheets/EnforcingSection7Expenses.pdf


From reading the online information one would think that the OP just has to amass her receipts, file her Order and MEP will take care of everything. Am I delusional?

Thanks
 
Section 7 Expenses Post-Secondary College Tuition

That info does change things. From my reading of that info all JCL needs is an order outlining what portion of the expense.

For instance, if your order says something like "NAME is responsible for 50% of tuition, residence and equipment for both children for one degree" then from that document, MEP will enforce it.

The question is, what does your order say?

FRO doesnt do this. They dont even calculate anything but what is in the order. If CS is supposed to go up or down, new order needed. If you have S7 expenses and your ordersays 40%, the believe you when you submit the statement of arrears calculated that way. If its wrong, the payor can reject it.
 
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JCL, definitely contact someone at MEP if your order outlines what is in the first link Arabian posted. You may be all set to just file everything without a motion.
 
Yes, it's on my "to do" list to call MEP tomorrow. I sent an email to the ex today (after no communication since he decided to quit paying months ago) explaining that this will be moving forward to court, and I pointed out some key points that I wanted him to consider: currently pay 1/3 of tuition when Divorce Judgment stipulates proportional percentage, which is more like 53% for his share. Tried to point out that 33% and no legal costs (our agreement has the stipulation that the "breacher" pays costs) is better than court costs and 53%. He answered back that he wants to go to court to "show the inequity" between our 2 children (other child goes to local university, will likely go away for grad school to where she gets accepted, has a vehicle, lives with me, etc.)and also argued that he didn't really have a role in the decision to send him, and wants to go to court to explain that to the judge and that the student debt our son will have is horrible (only point we agree on) and that I made all of the decisions, and he (the ex) has no voice, etc. etc.

My understanding is that if the motion is put forward, it will be a short duration with the judge who basically looks at the Divorce Judgement, my affidavit of what's owing, and then (hopefully?) an order for arrears is made that then goes to MEP for collection? Is that right? I think the ex thinks he's going to "get his day in court" (still won't tell me who his lawyer is; he walked away from last lawyer when he didn't want to pay the bill, so I had to CounterClaim to get this over with-so I'm assuming he will self-rep?) and that an autopsy will be done on the entire marriage in front of the judge? What can I expect to happen once the motion is filed and I get to court?
 
Divorce Judgment says that we split Section 7 expenses on a pro-rata basis, and then lists the 2 percentages. Asks for reasonable notice and other party's agreement before incurring. Person can't reasonably withhold his/her amount payable, and pay 30 days from receipt of the copy of the expense. Also says that amounts under the order are to be paid to MEP.

Hope this is good enough for MEP?
 
If its in your order already you should just be able to file with MEP correct? I thought you had said that you both had agreed on the out of town school? If so, why the need for you to file motion? It should just be filed then he can deal with getting it stopped.

Im thinking it will be extremely difficult for him to gain any sympathy from a judge on this. You both agreed on an educational path for your son. You didnt wake up one day and say "lets screw dad and send you away". Its a progressive sports track that saw him accepted to a program he has the talent and history in. Plus, its an apples/oranges situation with kid 2. Shes in a different program and made different choices. He cant compare the two decisions. You both PLANNED for your son to pursue this sport.

I also find it comical hes arguing that this decision means more debt for his child. HIS decisions mean more debt for the poor kid.
 
JCL said:
Divorce Judgment says that we split Section 7 expenses on a pro-rata basis, and then lists the 2 percentages. Asks for reasonable notice and other party's agreement before incurring. Person can't reasonably withhold his/her amount payable, and pay 30 days from receipt of the copy of the expense. Also says that amounts under the order are to be paid to MEP.



Hope this is good enough for MEP?
Click to expand...


I think post secondary is not subject to the "reasonable consent" rule. Its like a medical expense--it happens whether you like it or not. School is not akin to summer camp. A parent cant say no.

Talk to MEP about filing. You will probably file an arrears statement based on the % in your agreement. Hes screwed himself because from the sounds of it hes going to incur major legal costs just to lose. You gave him a chance to pay less than whats ordered and he said no. Now you file the order and get some help.

Let me know if Im wrong about how MEP works though. From what Arabian posted you can file your agreement as it stands. Not sure why you would need a motion or court from your end. If he wants to fight the order, I think he would need court.
 
We did both agree, and as I've written before this was years in the making and I have emails to back much of it up. Unfortunately, I think his mind was elsewhere (extramarital affair) so he wasn't around much to get all of the fine details, but was well aware of what was occurring. Hopefully his decisions won't mean more debt for our son and this can all get fixed. If MEP agrees that they can enforce the Divorce Judgement, how do I handle the tuition for the upcoming fall semester? Do I have to wait for him to not pay again, and restart the process, or perhaps MEP will just continually garnish the amount until the degree is finished?
 
All questions for them to answer. You'll need to start figuring out a payment plan over the summer but get that agreement filed NOW to start the garnishment process. If they can work with what you have then thats a major step.
 
I agree that registering with MEP asap is your next move. They make reference to forms to fill out listing the arrears and including the documents. Documents would be any and all court Orders and receipts that you have. Provide everything to MEP. They may require a certified copy of the Orders but as MEP is essentially the collection agency part of Alberta Justice they can get the Orders.

Hopefully you can get this thing going without having to file a motion. If not then you set up a motion. If your ex is self-represented he will most definitely want to "have his day in court" but the judge will direct him to what he can talk about - it had better be relevant to matters at hand (son's section 7).

If your ex has a lawyer then he would like book the motion for Special Sessions.

I can't see you scheduling anything yourself until you are absolutely certain that MEP won't accept the documents you have and proceed with collections

Keep us posted.
 
Well forum friends...happy to report some positive news!

Contacted MEP for the 2nd time (1st person told me that I required a new court order, but didn't seek too much clarification from me, and I don't know if I gave enough info?) this morning and I took the time to explain what my Divorce Judgment actually said. I was advised that indeed it is enforceable by MEP because it lists the proportional percentages. It apparently doesn't matter that specific amounts aren't listed on the order, as the amounts will always vary. The mandatory "Calculation of Arrears" form is where the amounts are detailed. I was instructed that the "Affidavit of Arrears" form is only used when there is unpaid Child Support being sought. Section 7 arrears do not require the affidavit to be completed. Once registration is processed, I was advised that the debtor has 30 days to pay and then they begin to go after the unpaid funds. Karma = we were splitting the tuition in thirds (dad, mom, student) and our order states 53%/47%, so by the ex refusing to pay and MEP involvement, his share went from 33% to 53%. I won't believe it until it actually happens though; he will likely find some way to try to dispute it, etc. Thanks to Rockscan and Arabian for encouraging me to go back to MEP for a 2nd opinion, rather than engaging my lawyer to head to court. Fingers crossed people!!
 
That is very good news indeed. Write down the name of the person you speak to each and every time you call. Keep a diary of this as unfortunately you may have to revert back to it in the future. MEP, like other enforcement agencies, is a call centre. You can always email them and ask for a supervisor/duty manager to call you back. They are mandated to return your call within a few days and return emails within a specified period of time.

Yes your ex is pretty foolish. Seems that he has forced your hand and in doing so it will cost him dearly.

Karma is a bitch!!!
 
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