Remarried, can my ex go after my new spouse's income for additional child support?
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MiViLaLoco
New member
Not unless you claim "undue hardship" in order to reduce responsibilites to your existing children.
ps...you may want to do a "search" on your question. There are a lot of responses to this question already on the boards...
ps...you may want to do a "search" on your question. There are a lot of responses to this question already on the boards...
Well, I would say that my situation may be somewhat different than most people here.
I initially had 50/50 joint custody and agreed to pay $500 a month. I might add they I also gave all of our family equity to my exwife as a means to allow her to continue a balanced lifestyle for our son.
After our settlement, she had me arrested for child abduction while I was in legal custody of our son. During the week I was in jail waiting to be released, she filed a motion without noticed to reduce my access from 50/50 to 2 hours a week in supervised access. This took two and a half years to undue, until I was acquitted without filing any sort of defense at trial, no witnesses or evidence. She admitted at trial that she had misled the police with her statements, that I did in fact have legal custody at the time of my arrest and that she knowly left out that information when she filed her notice without notice with the family court to wipe out my custody.
So, after complete financial ruin and being tagged as a child abductor for 2.5 years, we had to come to some sort of agreement in family court.
By that point my son was ten years old and basically under her care full time for that previous 2.5 years. I knew getting custody and 50/50 back was unlikely due to the artificial status quo created by this event and the parental alienanin that was created as result.
So, the trade off was this. I offered her custody in exchange for no child support, just accountability only for half the expenses created by my son's extra curricular activities and some essential clothing expenses as well.
I have him in my care from wed to thurs every week and every other weekend, half the summer and half holidays. Not exactly 50/50, but it's a start.
I've recently made it known to her that intend to expand my access, that of course was met with "you'll be sorry if you try that". The only thing I could possibly come up with is that she intends to seek child support now, since my new wife is the only on that is employed right now in our household, this is why I asked this question..
I initially had 50/50 joint custody and agreed to pay $500 a month. I might add they I also gave all of our family equity to my exwife as a means to allow her to continue a balanced lifestyle for our son.
After our settlement, she had me arrested for child abduction while I was in legal custody of our son. During the week I was in jail waiting to be released, she filed a motion without noticed to reduce my access from 50/50 to 2 hours a week in supervised access. This took two and a half years to undue, until I was acquitted without filing any sort of defense at trial, no witnesses or evidence. She admitted at trial that she had misled the police with her statements, that I did in fact have legal custody at the time of my arrest and that she knowly left out that information when she filed her notice without notice with the family court to wipe out my custody.
So, after complete financial ruin and being tagged as a child abductor for 2.5 years, we had to come to some sort of agreement in family court.
By that point my son was ten years old and basically under her care full time for that previous 2.5 years. I knew getting custody and 50/50 back was unlikely due to the artificial status quo created by this event and the parental alienanin that was created as result.
So, the trade off was this. I offered her custody in exchange for no child support, just accountability only for half the expenses created by my son's extra curricular activities and some essential clothing expenses as well.
I have him in my care from wed to thurs every week and every other weekend, half the summer and half holidays. Not exactly 50/50, but it's a start.
I've recently made it known to her that intend to expand my access, that of course was met with "you'll be sorry if you try that". The only thing I could possibly come up with is that she intends to seek child support now, since my new wife is the only on that is employed right now in our household, this is why I asked this question..
Frustrated_DAD
New member
Start paying Child Support (CS) ASAP based on the table amounts.
If you want more access and have to bring a court motion she will most likely seek a change in CS and request back arrears also. That is what I can see her doing.
There is no locked down agreement when it comes to CS. If it was waived in a seperation agreement it can be changed later if you are not paying the table amounts required.
If you want more access and have to bring a court motion she will most likely seek a change in CS and request back arrears also. That is what I can see her doing.
There is no locked down agreement when it comes to CS. If it was waived in a seperation agreement it can be changed later if you are not paying the table amounts required.
Pursuinghappiness
New member
You may have offered that to her but she can seek child support and back payment of child support anytime regardless of that agreement.
Your new wife's salary is less of an issue than the fact that she can have an income imputed for you. Unless there's some valid reason that you cannot work. You are responsible to provide financially for your child.
Otherwise, I'm sorry about what happened to you regarding getting thrown in jail..sounds pretty crappy.
staysingle
New member
That's a terrible situation you endured and my heart goes out to you. You have experienced the structural state sponsored pathology better known as family court.!!!
See karmaseekers latest posts. They are spot on!!!!!
Regarding your agreement with her to suspend Child Support. This is never recommended to do as it's the child right to financial support and you CANNOT...EVER legally negotiate that away.
Furthermore, the Supreme Court has made a clear ruling that it's the payor responsibility to pay the guideline amount and the recipient can hold your feet to the fire for all retro amounts.
Good luck
See karmaseekers latest posts. They are spot on!!!!!
Regarding your agreement with her to suspend Child Support. This is never recommended to do as it's the child right to financial support and you CANNOT...EVER legally negotiate that away.
Furthermore, the Supreme Court has made a clear ruling that it's the payor responsibility to pay the guideline amount and the recipient can hold your feet to the fire for all retro amounts.
Good luck
billm
New member
You may not work, buy you have income. Your wife is supporting you.
You are a package deal - your wife can't support you and not your son.
It is reasonable that you get 50/50 (and that your ex pay all your court costs, and be thrown in jail herself - crappy system!).
It is reasonable that you pay CS now and if and when you get 50/50.
Your income should be imputed to something other than zero. Minimum wage at the least, half your wife's income at the most perhaps.
If you have 50/50 and your ex makes more than you, she would pay you.
Your ex wife is a bad mother and a criminal. Too bad for your son.
You are a package deal - your wife can't support you and not your son.
It is reasonable that you get 50/50 (and that your ex pay all your court costs, and be thrown in jail herself - crappy system!).
It is reasonable that you pay CS now and if and when you get 50/50.
Your income should be imputed to something other than zero. Minimum wage at the least, half your wife's income at the most perhaps.
If you have 50/50 and your ex makes more than you, she would pay you.
Your ex wife is a bad mother and a criminal. Too bad for your son.
I've had zero income for the last 2 years, not sure what back arrears could be based on. I've filed litigation against the police with respect to malicious prosecution, as it came out in trial that they basically made zero effort to investigate anything that would have exonerated me, and that they had a video taped sworn statement from her the day after my arrest where she admitted that I had legal custody.
As far as being employed, I have 27 separate letters from employers stating they could not offer me employment due to the attention created by the abduction charge. Since there is now a publication ban on the entire thing, nobody can report on my acquittal because it would be a violation of the ban. So now as a result of all that, I still have live under the veil as a "child abductor" in my community even though I have no criminal record or charges filed against me.
All of the media that was created out of the event has been removed, however that doesn't undue the effect of the 2.5 half years of my exwife and her family forwarding it all to everyone that they could.
As far as our final order goes, there is a stipulation that we may discuss child support at a later date out of court if I'm ever employed again, that hasn't happened.
Realistically speaking, if she ever attempted to seek child support, the civil litigation she would bring on to herself would out way any child support she could ever be granted by the court. I lost my home, vehicle, livelihood and reputation as result of her actions. Not sure she would really be dumb enough to tempt that, but you never know, which is what prompted my question in the first place.
As far as being employed, I have 27 separate letters from employers stating they could not offer me employment due to the attention created by the abduction charge. Since there is now a publication ban on the entire thing, nobody can report on my acquittal because it would be a violation of the ban. So now as a result of all that, I still have live under the veil as a "child abductor" in my community even though I have no criminal record or charges filed against me.
All of the media that was created out of the event has been removed, however that doesn't undue the effect of the 2.5 half years of my exwife and her family forwarding it all to everyone that they could.
As far as our final order goes, there is a stipulation that we may discuss child support at a later date out of court if I'm ever employed again, that hasn't happened.
Realistically speaking, if she ever attempted to seek child support, the civil litigation she would bring on to herself would out way any child support she could ever be granted by the court. I lost my home, vehicle, livelihood and reputation as result of her actions. Not sure she would really be dumb enough to tempt that, but you never know, which is what prompted my question in the first place.
Frustrated_DAD
New member
Get a sit down session with a lawyer and tell them the details and see what they say. Or talk to the FLIC about it.
You do have a point about not getting blood from a stone (CS from no income due to her actions).
I just had a case conference where my request for imputing income and getting my Ex's partner's income info was not approved. Mine is a little different as my ex is claiming undue hardship for CS and is suppose to be to ill to work. My point is it is sometimes hard to impute someone's income.
You will most likely need a lawyer to assist in writing up a motion for change for access. You need to provide a strong change in circumstances to validate your request for more access.
You do have a point about not getting blood from a stone (CS from no income due to her actions).
I just had a case conference where my request for imputing income and getting my Ex's partner's income info was not approved. Mine is a little different as my ex is claiming undue hardship for CS and is suppose to be to ill to work. My point is it is sometimes hard to impute someone's income.
You will most likely need a lawyer to assist in writing up a motion for change for access. You need to provide a strong change in circumstances to validate your request for more access.
staysingle
New member
Here is my view,
Get a full or part time job immediately and anything that suits you...minimum wage or otherwise. After a few months on the job file a 'motion to change' or if she is inclined a ' consent' form filed and get your 'support obligation' to reflect your current wage.
This stops the arrears that is accumulating and shows the courts you are proactive regarding your responsibilities to pay support.
If she argues retroactive support try and counter with detailed and verifiable records you gave her an excess of money/assets (which hopefully indicates up and above your equalization amounts) in leau of Child Support.
Sometimes it's wise to 'let sleeping dogs lay' and my sense is this situation will treat you better if your very proactive getting this resolved
Get a full or part time job immediately and anything that suits you...minimum wage or otherwise. After a few months on the job file a 'motion to change' or if she is inclined a ' consent' form filed and get your 'support obligation' to reflect your current wage.
This stops the arrears that is accumulating and shows the courts you are proactive regarding your responsibilities to pay support.
If she argues retroactive support try and counter with detailed and verifiable records you gave her an excess of money/assets (which hopefully indicates up and above your equalization amounts) in leau of Child Support.
Sometimes it's wise to 'let sleeping dogs lay' and my sense is this situation will treat you better if your very proactive getting this resolved
billm
New member
ummm, the child support is for your child, not for her. Your looking at it the wrong way.
Again, you should be paying child support, even over the past 2 years of unemployment as you were supported somehow, and that support must be shared with your child.
Way to go suing the police, I hope you win.
Tayken
Well-known member
This is an interesting (and very good observation) of what should happen regarding your situation if it is indeed true. The disconnect between the Family Law system and the Criminal Law system is often recognized in the Family Law system. So, going to trial based on the evidence you have to past conduct of the other parent you may have grounds (given a good solicitor) to seek full custody.
Often times high-conflict individuals use the Criminal Law system to "control" the other parent. This could be as simple as threatening to call the police, going to the police to create an incident and in your case successfully miss representing evidence to the police to have criminal charges laid.
There is more than enough case law in support of your position. You should be also considering seeking costs for what you have been put through. Furthermore, your child is reaching (or has) an age where your child's interests would be considered by the court at least through an assessment (OCL / Section 30) to determine the child's wishes. (They technically can be ascertained at this age by the proper professional.)
Furthermore, you have a stable relationship now that is a change in circumstance. As much as people don't want to admit it... The vast majority of Judges sitting right now prefer to have children in a "traditional" family environment. The other parent runs the risk of leaving the matter up to a 3rd party to make the decision should this matter be litigated.
I am surprised that the Crown doesn't consider reciprocal charges in events like this. The Criminal Code of Canada outlines mischief and other summary offences for these kinds of "stunts". In these events when a parent does this to the other parent and it is proven to be false something should happen. Too many parents walk away after pulling these often transparent stunts with not even a slap on the wrist. In fact, many are awarded majority of custody due to "status quo".
False allegations are abusive and as such the same 'abuse' criteria should be applied to them when found to be false. It doesn't speak well to the mental health of a parent who would do such a thing.
10% of the population has personality disorders (Axis II). 10% of Family Law matters end up at trial. It isn't a statistical anomaly that these numbers match.
Good Luck!
Tayken
Tayken
Well-known member
If the matter is before the court would you be willing to share the court file number (private message would be fine) so the matter could be tracked? I am sure there are people who would like to review the continuing record in that lawsuit.
It is a bold move to take. It has been attempted in Ontario in the past but, the litigant in that matter didn't have enough evidence basically. It is a very challenging lawsuit to take on as a litigant and can be very costly if lost.
Good Luck!
Tayken
In this case, the crown wasn't going to back down, they tried every single they could do, fling every piece of mud they could, none of it stuck. The reality here in this situation is that the crown was going to do whatever they could to protect the officers involved in this investigation be cause it was botched from the get-go.
A warrant was issued based on what my exwife told them. 18 hours later my exwife told them in sworn interview on video that I did in fact have custody. By the time that interview had taken place, iw as already remanded into custody out of province actually put into a provincial penitentiary, not a county lock up or local police operated jail.
The following day after the video interview, the lead investigating officer signed a sworn affidavit for the purpose of keeping me in jail (as I was out of province at the time of my arrest) until they could come and retrieve me, and, bring me back to face this charge. Despite what my exwife told her the day previously, the affidavit said that the charge was legit and made no mention the fact that I had custody of my son. So I spent 9 days in jail, most of it out of province, was dragged through 3 airports in handcuffs and then released on bail. At the bail hearing the officer testified that she was made aware of my legit custody circumstance during the video interview with my ex, but then at the prelim she had memory loss about it and said it wasn't clear to her at the time, but then at the trial she remembered that my ex told her that I had custody at the time of my arrest.
To top it off, the officer also admitted at trial that she was ordered not to investigate certain aspects of what I told them, as it may exonerate me. Most specifically, they had my cell phone in evidence for 2.5 years and never bothered to check the call history in it. This is somewhat important because I had made two phone calls to two separate travel agents (3 hours prior to my arrest) as an attempt to arrange for transportation for my son to return home, as I had two more days to get him back. This along with a pile of other things that they chose not to investigate is the anchor of my lawsuit against the police.
What ultimately sunk their case was the crown playing my two video interviews with the police at the time of my arrest, the first the night I was arrested out of province and the second one the night I was returned back to the city where I live. Every single thing that I told them in those interviews were actually listed in the Judge's reasons of judgment as to why I was not guilty. The crown witnesses were extremely helpfull to me, as they proved what I told the police was true. Additionally, anything not proven by the crown witnesses wasn't challenged by the crown attorney.
In the end, I think I have a pretty strong case aginst them, being acquitted without presenting any evidence or calling any witnesses speaks miles for the lack of a case the crown had.
I'm still pondering what to do about my exwife, outside of a civil case, I could file private charges and have her charged with obstruction and criminal mischief over, both ar indictable offenses and have no statute of limitations.
A warrant was issued based on what my exwife told them. 18 hours later my exwife told them in sworn interview on video that I did in fact have custody. By the time that interview had taken place, iw as already remanded into custody out of province actually put into a provincial penitentiary, not a county lock up or local police operated jail.
The following day after the video interview, the lead investigating officer signed a sworn affidavit for the purpose of keeping me in jail (as I was out of province at the time of my arrest) until they could come and retrieve me, and, bring me back to face this charge. Despite what my exwife told her the day previously, the affidavit said that the charge was legit and made no mention the fact that I had custody of my son. So I spent 9 days in jail, most of it out of province, was dragged through 3 airports in handcuffs and then released on bail. At the bail hearing the officer testified that she was made aware of my legit custody circumstance during the video interview with my ex, but then at the prelim she had memory loss about it and said it wasn't clear to her at the time, but then at the trial she remembered that my ex told her that I had custody at the time of my arrest.
To top it off, the officer also admitted at trial that she was ordered not to investigate certain aspects of what I told them, as it may exonerate me. Most specifically, they had my cell phone in evidence for 2.5 years and never bothered to check the call history in it. This is somewhat important because I had made two phone calls to two separate travel agents (3 hours prior to my arrest) as an attempt to arrange for transportation for my son to return home, as I had two more days to get him back. This along with a pile of other things that they chose not to investigate is the anchor of my lawsuit against the police.
What ultimately sunk their case was the crown playing my two video interviews with the police at the time of my arrest, the first the night I was arrested out of province and the second one the night I was returned back to the city where I live. Every single thing that I told them in those interviews were actually listed in the Judge's reasons of judgment as to why I was not guilty. The crown witnesses were extremely helpfull to me, as they proved what I told the police was true. Additionally, anything not proven by the crown witnesses wasn't challenged by the crown attorney.
In the end, I think I have a pretty strong case aginst them, being acquitted without presenting any evidence or calling any witnesses speaks miles for the lack of a case the crown had.
I'm still pondering what to do about my exwife, outside of a civil case, I could file private charges and have her charged with obstruction and criminal mischief over, both ar indictable offenses and have no statute of limitations.
staysingle
New member
Was there a court order clearly spelling out custody and access? If not, why not?
With respect o the issue of child support brought up by billm.
During my divorce settlement in exchange for 50/50 joint custody/access I offered up everything to her which included our home (60k in equity), RRSPs (24K), all of our marital possessions and acquisitions. She assumed 14k in credit card debt and I assume 15k in outstanding debt for a lease on a vehicle (11K, which I lost as result of financial issues dealing with my criminal matter that she falsely facilitated) and a shed that was built in our back yard (4K) of the house she still lives in.
I offered $500 a month in child support because in her discovery she claimed to only be making $500 a week at her job. Three weeks after our divorce was finalized, her mortgage application reads that she actually made $1000 a week, which was confirmed by an additional discovery session after the fact.
I stopped paying child support the month I was arrested because I was basically financially ruined as result of all the publicity surrounding the incident. 30 days after my acquittal, the 15k of 2.5 years of child support arrears that had accumulated were wiped out by the family court. My driver's license was restored after 18 months of suspension for nonpayment of child support.
I pay for 50% of every expense surrounding my son and his activities, hockey, football, clothing etc. In fact, I was forced to purchase a complete wardrobe for him here because his mother is unwilling to send him here with anything other than the clothes he has on his back.
My position is this, if after all of that she wants to make it about an extra $200-$300 she might get a month, we can do that dance. But, the response she will receive will most likely undue her entire world. Not only will I seek 50/50 again, she will end up having to pay me support due to her financial situation. Plus, she will be facing a civil matter that will wipe her financially out just defending it, not counting the final judgment that I will be awarded for my costs and damages, which will in turn would put her on the payment plan to me for the rest of her life.
I think I've been pretty tolerant considering what I've been through.
During my divorce settlement in exchange for 50/50 joint custody/access I offered up everything to her which included our home (60k in equity), RRSPs (24K), all of our marital possessions and acquisitions. She assumed 14k in credit card debt and I assume 15k in outstanding debt for a lease on a vehicle (11K, which I lost as result of financial issues dealing with my criminal matter that she falsely facilitated) and a shed that was built in our back yard (4K) of the house she still lives in.
I offered $500 a month in child support because in her discovery she claimed to only be making $500 a week at her job. Three weeks after our divorce was finalized, her mortgage application reads that she actually made $1000 a week, which was confirmed by an additional discovery session after the fact.
I stopped paying child support the month I was arrested because I was basically financially ruined as result of all the publicity surrounding the incident. 30 days after my acquittal, the 15k of 2.5 years of child support arrears that had accumulated were wiped out by the family court. My driver's license was restored after 18 months of suspension for nonpayment of child support.
I pay for 50% of every expense surrounding my son and his activities, hockey, football, clothing etc. In fact, I was forced to purchase a complete wardrobe for him here because his mother is unwilling to send him here with anything other than the clothes he has on his back.
My position is this, if after all of that she wants to make it about an extra $200-$300 she might get a month, we can do that dance. But, the response she will receive will most likely undue her entire world. Not only will I seek 50/50 again, she will end up having to pay me support due to her financial situation. Plus, she will be facing a civil matter that will wipe her financially out just defending it, not counting the final judgment that I will be awarded for my costs and damages, which will in turn would put her on the payment plan to me for the rest of her life.
I think I've been pretty tolerant considering what I've been through.
Yes, it was laid out like this. 50/50 week about at 6pm on sundays. Meaning he stayed with each of us a week at a time, going to the other home at 6pm every sunday.
However, outside of the usual holiday access (christmas, easter, etc) that was addressed, there was an extra provision made in the order. Every April my ex and her family travel to florida for a holiday. To accommodate this properly, I agreed to allow her a few days of my access so that she could take more than her 7 days. In exchange for that I would be granted those days I lost as make time whenever I chose.
Prior to leaving with my son, she agreed in writing to those two extra days being tacked on to the end of my usual week.
So her complaint to the police was at 6pm on Sunday, she failed to tell them about the extra days I had been granted, meaning my actual return time was to have been on Tuesday at 6pm, not Sunday as normal. So 3 hours later the cops show up saying your supposed to be back in Ontario at 6pm, you're under arrest for child abduction.
Obviously immediately at the point of my arrest I point out the 2 extra days I was entitled to and inform them that she was well aware of that prior to me leaving. It wasn't until the following day after I had been placed in the penitentiary that she admitted it on video to the police. As said earlier, 2 days after she admitted that to the police, she filed a motion without noticed due to my inability to respond because I was sitting in jail. She used the media reports in the motion to show that I had been arrested for abducting our son and made no mention of the 2 extra days, they quickly vacated our final order and my custody.
Now I'm sure some of you are sitting there wondering why did this proceed. Let me tell you why. My arrest was in June, the main purpose of my trip out there was to rent a summer vacation home on the ocean for us to go to during my summer vacation with my girlfriend and son. Crown and police made the assertion that because I had taken some household items like an extra TV and Computer and rented this summer house, I was obviously moving out of province with my son. This was despite my legal custody of my son at the time, the 2 days had to return him and that I had a home that I owned completely full of furniture and all my worldly possessions sitting back in my home town.
staysingle
New member
The more I hear of your situation the more I am infuriated how your human rights were trampled on!!!
If you can elaborate, where did the police arrest you? You indicated scouting out a summer rental with your child.
Thanks
If you can elaborate, where did the police arrest you? You indicated scouting out a summer rental with your child.
Thanks
shellshocked22
New member
Wow, she's a real piece of work, isnt' she ? Regardless, you should go after her big time in court if your lawyer thinks you have a good shot at winning.
I'd prefer to keep the details off line just because there is publication ban in place and I don't need any heat, they are now looking under every rock they can as an attempt to deflect what is coming their way. I've already completed all the docs to file a "constitutional question", which has a very direct procedure in the court system, not much wait time, a prelim and straiught to trial. They most certainly violated my rights with their actions, that's going to be a whole separate issue aside from my civil action.
With respect to going after her, there is a basic line I needed to draw. First and foremost not sure it would improve my relationship with my son, which is important to me. Second, if I name her in a civil action, the police could easily attempt to put some blame in her direction, which could effect me in the end when a judgement is handed out in my favour. The primary reason to file a legal action like this is to seek restitution, the police have more financial resources and assets than my exwife.
I don't need revenge, my solid relationship after all of this with my son easily accomplishes that.
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