Relocation or Change in Residence - arguing

[donaldD]

I went through the Caselaw and did a lot of google type research and read the legislation and went through Luke's place documentation.
Law makers made things very confusing. Everything is a relocation if it is more than a 30 minute walk away and the kids have to change schools and then court ensues.
How is anyone supposed to buy a house or lease a house with the condition "If Family Court allows me to. I will know in 3 months"


Both parents lived in Brampton 10 minutes apart but one parent with 12/14 day access and split education decision making wants to move to Meadowvale west 21 minutes away and let the 15-17 year old child going into grade 11 decide where they want to go to school even if they want to change schools because it is more convenient?

What weight do prior agreements or court orders have after the legislation was introduced in 2020/2021?
If a 2017 Consent Final order stated "The parents shall reside in Peel Region" does that still carry weight now.

What can be said to successfully argue that this is a relocation and not a move and then stop it?
Only seeing the child 4 times a month. Is the person expected to drive the extra 11 minutes?
Yes. 11 minutes sounds really stupid to have a motion over but who is expected to do what here as far as transportation?


What are reasons for moving and which sound like a good reason to a parent but the court frowns on for the above move?
"I bought a house I could afford there. It is more stable than renting"
"Parent wants to be closer to their parents and be closer to their grandchild"
"I can now rent a whole house instead of just an apartment and that is better for the family"
"it is closer to my work so I can spend more time with my child"
"I save $200/month by moving and can use that to improve our lifestyle"
"we are fixing the place up and my child is going to help me and learn"

I was making a lot of reasons up trying to find odd things but basically what works and what does not?

What small "best interest of child" thing matters in court?

 

[StillPaying]

If a 2017 Consent Final order stated "The parents shall reside in Peel Region" does that still carry weight now.

Of course it does. If a parent wants to move, they can; but they will be responsible to drive the child to their regular school as per the consent order. They can justify the move with whatever excuse they want, but the other parent and child should not be affected. If it's the custodial parent moving, then they will have a better chance of success given the child wants to relocate and the NCP only sees them eow. If it's an opportunity for a better life to the child and CP, then they will be allowed to move despite the NCP's disagreement.

 

[donaldD]

Of course it does. If a parent wants to move, they can; but they will be responsible to drive the child to their regular school as per the consent order. They can justify the move with whatever excuse they want, but the other parent and child should not be affected. If it's the custodial parent moving, then they will have a better chance of success given the child wants to relocate and the NCP only sees them eow. If it's an opportunity for a better life to the child and CP, then they will be allowed to move despite the NCP's disagreement.

So at EOW the moving parent would be required to drive the child a distance that would ensure the other parent does not have to drive that 10-20 minutes extra?

 

[Tayken]

I went through the Caselaw and did a lot of google type research and read the legislation and went through Luke's place documentation.

Read my main post threads. I have written extensively on this forum regarding mobility and education.

Law makers made things very confusing. Everything is a relocation if it is more than a 30 minute walk away and the kids have to change schools and then court ensues.
How is anyone supposed to buy a house or lease a house with the condition "If Family Court allows me to. I will know in 3 months"

Mobility is complex issue.

Barendregt v Grebliunas, 2022 SCC 22

But, your situation you are describing is NOT a complex one and should not even be before any court. ​

Both parents lived in Brampton 10 minutes apart but one parent with 12/14 day access and split education decision making wants to move to Meadowvale west 21 minutes away and let the 15-17 year old child going into grade 11 decide where they want to go to school even if they want to change schools because it is more convenient?

Nothing churns on a 21 minute distance for a 15-17 year old's commute to school from either parent's residence. There are so many solutions in the Region of Peel for that student to get to-and-from school.

1. Walk.
2. Ride a bike.
3. Take the bus.
4. Take Uber Teen.
5. Get a drivers license and a car at 16.
6. Parents facilitate the short ride to school.
7. Pay for bus services through one of the regional learning program's private services.

See, the longest bus ride for a student is from the French River (Alban) to Parry Sound. High school students who live in Alban, Ontario take a 1.5hr bus ride TO and FROM high school in Parry Sound through some of the worst winter weather in the province. So, a Judge in the Peel District Superior Court, which covers Mississauga, Brampton and Caledonia is going to go nuts, especially if you get Justice Lemon or Justice Richette in that court house, on both parents for bringing something so trivial and silly to court.

Talk about high-conflict. Clearly, one parent, who is opposing the move, is incredibly HIGH CONFLICT if they can't problem solve a 21 minute commute for a high-school student!

In the Region of Peel they have Regional Learning Programs in high school for sports, science and technology, etc... The Region of Peel does not provide bus services for these students and if they wish to attend these specialized programs from anywhere in the Region of Peel. Thousands of students choose these programs and commute way longer to attend them.

https://www.peelschools.org/secondary-regional-learning-choice-programs

What weight do prior agreements or court orders have after the legislation was introduced in 2020/2021?
If a 2017 Consent Final order stated "The parents shall reside in Peel Region" does that still carry weight now.

Nothing. The court is going to do nothing. Why?

1. Mississauga and Brampton are both part of the "Peel Region" and the moving parent is in full compliance with the court order/agreement when they move from Brampton to Mississauga. Even if that parent moved to Lakeside, Mississauga or Port Credit, Mississauga they are in compliance with the order.

2. 21 minutes does not meet the threshold to consider opposing a parent's move that is already (1) compliant to the court order/agreement.

3. There are, as already mentioned, numerous solutions for that student to get to school from either parent's residence within the entire Region of Peel.

What can be said to successfully argue that this is a relocation and not a move and then stop it?
Only seeing the child 4 times a month. Is the person expected to drive the extra 11 minutes?
Yes. 11 minutes sounds really stupid to have a motion over but who is expected to do what here as far as transportation?

Nothing can be said other than:

The parent opposing the move is possibly HIGH CONFLICT and grasping at straws to create unnecessary conflict. The parent opposing this and bringing it to the Peel Regional Superior Court will get slaughtered by a Judge there for these arguments and hopefully face a full costs award against them for this nonsense. As well, the opposing parent will probably have a very hard time finding legal counsel to even represent them in this matter. If they do find a lawyer... That lawyer could possibly be the worst lawyer in the entire Region of Peel.

What are reasons for moving and which sound like a good reason to a parent but the court frowns on for the above move?
"I bought a house I could afford there. It is more stable than renting"
"Parent wants to be closer to their parents and be closer to their grandchild"
"I can now rent a whole house instead of just an apartment and that is better for the family"
"it is closer to my work so I can spend more time with my child"
"I save $200/month by moving and can use that to improve our lifestyle"
"we are fixing the place up and my child is going to help me and learn"

NONE. It is a 21 minute commute. A student in Lakeshore, Mississauga wanting to attend the furthest away Regional Learning program faces a 1 hour 20 minute commute one way to attend the program. So if the government is not accommodating the student's transport to those programs... You are out of luck on any argument you put forward for a 21 minute commute.

I was making a lot of reasons up trying to find odd things but basically what works and what does not?

What small "best interest of child" thing matters in court?

The test won't even come into play as a 21 minute commute to school is not a MATERIAL CHANGE IN CIRCUMSTANCE nor is it in contempt of the existing ORDER/AGREEMENT that parents shall reside in the Region of Peel. Brampton and Mississauga are in the REGION OF PEEL!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_Municipality_of_Peel

 

[donaldD]

Thank-you Taken and StillPaying.
That was great detail Tayken.

I have been scratching my head and confused by the situation and searching for any possible reason for this to go to court. It just doesn't make sense to me unless they have a different goal.
There is a court date set and I expect a lot of bullying. Your guess on the other party is correct and close on the lawyer.

 

[donaldD]

Driving the child back and forth to the old school is out of the way but OK. The 15-17 year old probably wants to opt for a different school closer to the new location. Do they get to chose against the other parents faux objection?

When they do want to see the other parent what is fair/required. The other parent make a trip to pick them up or the main/moving parent pick them up?

The moving parent driving them sometimes to the non-moving parent is not a big deal, it is more that they don't want to be a chauffer for the other parents convenience; the other parent is controlling of them. It probably is about 21 minutes total extra on top of the other parents 20 minute drive for a 2 way trip.