Relocating to Canada to Have More Time with Children

If you do ask and get a position letter from CAS, doesnt mean you have to use it. If your ex has one you will surely see it in the disclosure anyway.

I still feel your making a huge mistake by not being present for your motion. The stakes are just too high to leave your lawyer in charge. Especially when it comes to the custody/access imo your sending a message to the Judge that your priorities are not in the right place.
 
kate331 said:
I still feel your making a huge mistake by not being present for your motion. The stakes are just too high to leave your lawyer in charge. Especially when it comes to the custody/access imo your sending a message to the Judge that your priorities are not in the right place.
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Yes I know what you mean. It's somewhat in line with my previous comments where I wonder if doing 70-80% to help the children is good enough, and whether it is realistic for a judge to expect me to do 100% instead and drop everything else in my life. I am trying to juggle several issues at the same time and trying to reach the best compromise that I can for several stakeholders.

So I won't be in court in Canada in person, but I will be on speaker phone during the motion. My lawyer won't be 100% in charge since I will be in touch with him during the motion electronically if we need to exchange information in private. And if the judge asks me during the motion why I am not there in person then I have a reasonable explanation for why it would have been very inconvenient to undo my plans to attend in person at the date my lawyer got for the motion. For sure, the downside is that it sends the message that I am not doing everything to be there, but at the same time I have decent reasons and I am still "there" on the phone.

I hope that the judge will be sympathetic to my situation rather than come down hard on me for not giving all priority to be there in person.

I will keep everybody posted on what happens next month!
 
Yes good points. :o

I think there are several land mines... if it's not this, then there is something else I might say that won't put me in the best possible light. I am not sure it's avoidable for someone who has never been to court and who does not have experience with the process, except to try to be as best prepared as possible!
 
arabian said:
... do not use the word "inconvenient" when speaking to the judge.
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That word stuck out to me as well. I would say something along the lines of "I desperately want to be there in person, but I would lose my job if I came". I presume something like that is true, because otherwise you really should attend in person.
 
I have successfully represented myself, via telephone, in court on 3 occasions. I found the experience to be a tad intimidating. I learned very quickly to keep sentences very short, stay on point and never, ever interrupt the judge. Of course I made sure that my written submission was thorough and well-organized. I didn't play games and made sure that everyone was served my response documents in timely manner.

If someone attends by telephone and intends to ramble on then they will likely be unsuccessful. If you are not going to be attending in person you should make sure that your written submission is stellar. Judges hear cases every day and have years of experience. In order to change a current order the judge will be looking for material change of circumstance. If there is no material change of circumstance then there will be no change. You will not have an opportunity to ramble on and on. This is not a Hollywood version of court. You may have time scheduled for a long motion but the judge may come to a decision in a much shorter period of time.

Prior to each telephone testimony I simply wrote out 6 points. This kept me focused.
 
@arabian, thanks for the tips. For sure on the phone is not as easy as in person. What plays in my favor is that I will have a lawyer so hopefully my involvement will be limited. You were self-represented which was more of a difficult task especially on the phone.

If I am asked why I am not there in person, I will simply explain the truth. In my future wife's culture, they are quite superstitious and we cannot just pick the date of our wedding. We need to consult with buddhist monks who will check what dates are the most favorable for future happiness of the couple based on the birth dates of both. Believe it or not, we were only given 2 dates in the whole year to choose from! In addition, we need to visit temples a fixed number of days before the wedding and this is what falls when the motion is. I told my lawyer several times when I was available and when I was not available... but this is the date he got me in court, for whatever reason.

Of course I could say forget about the trip to visit temples, I need to go to Canada. But my future wife already makes a lot of compromises to be in the current situation so if her and her family care about me doing things the right way (according to their beliefs) because it will be good for us, then do I really want to wreak havoc by saying no because I am not superstitious myself? Especially if an alternative exists, such as being on the phone for the motion. So I decided to please my future wife and her family, at the expense of being on the phone for the motion rather than in person. Delaying the motion is not really an option because part of the motion is to get time with children during the summer so the motion needs to be in June at the latest.

Did I make this call 100% for the children? Clearly not. So perhaps a judge won't like it. But I thought I made the best decision I could by considering all people involved. I won't lie about why I am not there to pretend that I wanted to be there but something unforeseen happened, just to make an excuse. So either I don't explain anything or I tell the truth.

If it is best to not ramble on the phone then I will explain the situation to my lawyer and he should explain it himself as briefly as possible, rather than me attempting to explain what is actually not that easy to explain if the judge only wants to hear it for 10 seconds.
 
You, or your lawyer, should simply indicate that you were unable to attend in person for religious reasons. DON'T TALK ABOUT SUPERSTITION STUFF - IMO it sounds hokey. (People my age can be a bit more forthcoming with personal opinions).

I'd be pretty upset if someone I was paying to represent me couldn't get the date right. What a tool! Now your religious beliefs (which your children may not have been raised with) could become an issue....
 
arabian said:
You, or your lawyer, should simply indicate that you were unable to attend in person for religious reasons. DON'T TALK ABOUT SUPERSTITION STUFF - IMO it sounds hokey. (People my age can be a bit more forthcoming with personal opinions).

I'd be pretty upset if someone I was paying to represent me couldn't get the date right. What a tool! Now your religious beliefs (which your children may not have been raised with) could become an issue....
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That's a good way to keep it brief - just say "religious reasons".

I was indeed very upset about my lawyer. But as I was thought by the crowd here, I should not blame everybody for what is happening. I have made myself clear with my lawyer that I was not happy at all, but I need to move on... :(
 
Two points:


You are clearly prioritizing your new relationship over your children. There's no other way to spin this. Can't you wait and marry your new girlfriend in a year or two, after things are finalized and stable with your previous wife?


If you consider your new girlfriend's religion a superstition that you must humour to get what you want, I don't think this is the foundation for a lasting and respectful relationship.
 
Rioe said:
Two points:

You are clearly prioritizing your new relationship over your children. There's no other way to spin this. Can't you wait and marry your new girlfriend in a year or two, after things are finalized and stable with your previous wife?

If you consider your new girlfriend's religion a superstition that you must humour to get what you want, I don't think this is the foundation for a lasting and respectful relationship.
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Well I hope you can help me find a better way to spin this, rather than "no other way". :)

Maybe I am misunderstanding or misinterpreting your 2 points, but they seem to go in different directions? I could either be someone who cares only about children, and tell my fiancee that I don't care at all about what she believes in, and that I will go to Canada for children. Or I could be someone who will bend over backwards to respect her beliefs, at the expense of children. But not both?

To answer your question regarding waiting before marriage, this is what I have done. We started thinking about getting married two years ago, and my fiancee has been very patient throughout this process. Yes I could ask her to wait more, but I feel like I have asked her to do so already. In her culture it is not well seen to have this kind of relationship for so long without being married. She is getting social pressure from several sides. In addition, us getting married this year rather than later is not necessarily against the best interests of children. Children regularly ask when she can come to Canada again, will she be there during their summer vacation, how about Christmas, etc. They want to see her more often than the infrequent Skype calls we have with her when I am in Canada. Being married would make things a lot easier immigration-wise.

Regarding respectful relationships, I think there is a difference between respecting someone else's beliefs, and actually adopting these beliefs ourselves. For example, I do not believe in reincarnation, but who am I to say with certainty that it is impossible? I keep an open mind regarding her beliefs. Also, I am going along with several cultural preferences related to wedding traditions rather than imposing my own, specifically because I respect her beliefs.
 
Count yourself lucky that the children are so eager to spend time with your Fiance, some children of divorce wish their parents will get back together. And some ex-wives are resentful that there is now a Step Mom in the picture. Should you get an equal parenting schedule this could be a challenging to your new wife being put in the role of co parenting three children and starting her own family, in a new country without her own support system.
 
kate331 said:
Count yourself lucky that the children are so eager to spend time with your Fiance, some children of divorce wish their parents will get back together. And some ex-wives are resentful that there is now a Step Mom in the picture. Should you get an equal parenting schedule this could be a challenging to your new wife being put in the role of co parenting three children and starting her own family, in a new country without her own support system.
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Kate, I agree I am indeed VERY lucky. My fiancée is very good with children; even before we told my children we would get married, it is children themselves who were asking us if we would get married, and telling us that they hope we will, and hope that we will get children :D :eek:

Despite that, the challenge for my future wife is still significant. Moving to a new country is not easy for anybody, that plus dealing with children who will test her when her role has changed... I can only count my blessings.

So when I say that I intend to respect her religious beliefs and preferences when it comes to marriage, I mean it. It's the least I can do.

Regarding my ex-wife, I plan on being the shield between her and my future wife. My future wife does not deserve any of what could be thrown her way. I will worry about the river when I get to the bridge, I cannot say that I know exactly what is the right approach for this yet.
 
Instabul, I think you have those rose coloured glasses on again. Some of us Bio Mom's resent the new and improved Stepmom's trying to filling our shoes and running interference or having Dad doing it for them to make them happy. Although I am fairly new here too, I have yet to see threads where Mom is gushing over Step-Mom. Its almost always, Step-Mom bashing Bio Mom. Correct me if I am wrong members.

What you can do for your Fiance, besides respecting her beliefs, is too settle your dispute with your ex, and if you have to speed it up, settle before this ends up in court. You dont have time on your side waiting for the court system and keeping your upcoming marriage on track. IMO the ball is in your court. I do feel for your Fiance walking into this can of worms. I wish you all the peace and happiness, but I think your setting your Fiance up for a rough ride.
 
kate331 said:
Instabul, I think you have those rose coloured glasses on again. Some of us Bio Mom's resent the new and improved Stepmom's trying to filling our shoes and running interference or having Dad doing it for them to make them happy. Although I am fairly new here too, I have yet to see threads where Mom is gushing over Step-Mom. Its almost always, Step-Mom bashing Bio Mom. Correct me if I am wrong members.

What you can do for your Fiance, besides respecting her beliefs, is too settle your dispute with your ex, and if you have to speed it up, settle before this ends up in court. You dont have time on your side waiting for the court system and keeping your upcoming marriage on track. IMO the ball is in your court. I do feel for your Fiance walking into this can of worms. I wish you all the peace and happiness, but I think your setting your Fiance up for a rough ride.
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You might be right Kate; none of us as have crystal ball. That said, I agree, for sure Bio Mom will not be gushing over Step Mom :D. However given the personality of future Step Mom, her bashing Bio Mom is highly unlikely. Also without going into stereotypes, keep in mind cultural differences at play here. That would be an entirely separate conversation, although an interesting one.

Step Mom might question in private with me why Bio Mom does what she does, and Step Mom might not understand why Bio Mom does what she does. But in terms of bashing it's far more Bio Dad bashing Bio Mom in private with Step Mom listening to my rants. I try to limit those episodes because who wants to listen to their spouse vent about their ex too often? :o

Regarding settling with my ex to avoid court, been there done that, a few years ago. I had the exact same opinion as you and I did not want to go to court. So I made a deal, even though knowing how she is, I was worried that she would come back for more in the future. And she did.

I am not too excited at the idea of paying more every three years just because she's asking for more in court with lies and false accusations. Sounds like extortion to me. To be honest, I am not thrilled about going to court, but I am not thrilled either about having the same dispute every 3 years. Once again nobody has a crystal ball, and perhaps in this case my rose-colored glasses turn into black-colored glasses, but I know how Bio Mom is and I was already proven correct once that she would ignore the deal and try to get more, so at this stage it will be more difficult to convince me that I won't be correct again about what would happen in 2021 if I settle financial issues now. Human beings tend to repeat their behaviors in the future. Not always, but more often than not, they do.

And regarding the children, Bio Mom has shown her true colors and now I see that without a court order she just takes advantage of the situation and does as she pleases, regardless of what the consequences are for children. That part of it, I did not expect her to do when I settled a few years ago.

By the way, my daughter told me last weekend that she had a fight with Bio Mom and ran away from the house a week ago (again) and that Bio Mom called police (again) to have her brought back home. And Bio Mom did not inform me of any of this. How is this going to be when she's a teenager? It's only going to get worse. And the worse the situation is at home, the stronger my resolve to ask for more access. If the situation was fine and dandy at home then I would not feel the need to disrupt the peace.
 
I would be very concerned as well. I cant imagine knowing my child is in distress and missing where police are involved and I'm on the other side of the world helpless. I agree this could just get worse as the child ages.

I still think your on wrong path, it should be your Fiance in the long distance relationship, and not this child. Try and think of it this way, your Fiance is a grown women who can take care of herself without you, your child cannot. If this isn't a cry for help I don't know what is. Even if your stuck with an every other weekend, one night a week deal, its still one more night. You would be available for therapy session with your child. Be there for school events, extra extracurricular activities. This will build your case that you can meet the needs of the child.
 
kate331 said:
I would be very concerned as well. I cant imagine knowing my child is in distress and missing where police are involved and I'm on the other side of the world helpless. I agree this could just get worse as the child ages.



I still think your on wrong path, it should be your Fiance in the long distance relationship, and not this child. Try and think of it this way, your Fiance is a grown women who can take care of herself without you, your child cannot. If this isn't a cry for help I don't know what is. Even if your stuck with an every other weekend, one night a week deal, its still one more night. You would be available for therapy session with your child. Be there for school events, extra extracurricular activities. This will build your case that you can meet the needs of the child.
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I agree with Kate that it shouldn’t be the child forced into a long distance relationship... you should be able to get to your child quickly, you should be attending school functions and extra curricular activities... even if you only have EOW you can still attend these things, but as it is now you are basically allowing your ex to be a single mother and raise this child on her own.

One thing I do want to address is what Kate said about bio moms not gushing over step moms... I don’t expect bio moms to gush over step mothers however when I met my husband 9 years ago and we started dating I made it clear to him from the get go that his children would be treated like my own. And why shouldn’t they be? Children don’t ask to be raised in a divorced family and they shouldn’t feel all the affects of a divorced family. I know his ex hated me for a long time and after about 5 years she admitted to me it was because of how much th children liked me. That blew me away... how can someone be so hated for ensuring children are loved and cared for? It was never an option for me NOT to treat the children as my own... it didn’t mean I was trying to replace mom, it meant when the children were in our care they were just as much my responsibility as they were my husbands, because we are a team, a partnership and his children are all apart of that. So while there are times step moms bash bio moms, there are just as many instances where bio moms bash step moms and that is really sad.

My sister went through a separation and her ex immediately moved another woman in... my sister had ill feelings towards her and would tell me how much she hated her being around her girls... I tried to be supportive but I finally told my sister she had to look at the big picture. Her girls were well taken care of by that step mom, her girls were loved by that step mom and her girls really liked that step mom. Sometimes bio moms have to stop being jealous or resentful of the new partner and think of their children.

I understand not all step moms are like me or the OPs fiancé, but not all bio moms are peaches to deal with either right?


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Well said Bernie Faith. I think I may be interjecting too much of my personal life into my posts and in particular Istanbul, because I feel he is choosing his Finance over his children and I feel my ex did the same.

I too had jealous feelings over the women that my ex left me for, and I did feel it was too soon to introduce a Step Mom, we had an agreement for 1 year no new partners introduced and that was broken. But that is water under the bridge now.

I resented the fact that she's fun Mom on their weekends all refreshed for her every other weekend with the time to organize crafts and games for the children, and the ex playing Father of the Year with her. Making it look so easy that they question my parenting. I also resented and still do, the time she takes away from my children's precious time with their Dad. I get they are a team, but even when your a team it would be nice for the children to spend some time alone with Dad especially in the early days when the children where adjusting to Dad not living with them. I do think unfortunately, my older son felt some of my hurt, and it took him longer to warm up to her. His prized memories of his Dad was bike riding alone with Dad after dinner, and they don't do that anymore.

I have met her, and thanked her for making their time at Dad's fun, she will often send some of the crafts home for me. Time does heal wounds. Its not perfect but it looks like she is here to stay, so we have to make the best of it. Recently Mothers Day fell on their weekend, and my children celebrated with her, not me.

I do know they would like to start their own family and she like me, would like to stay home for a few years and there is some resentment about the support that is being payed to these children, that it will affect their future children. But that is not my problem.

I truly do appreciate your insight that's what makes this forum so great, input from all sides. I do feel that my ex got a Get of out Jail Card Free. I wonder how long Step Mom would stick around if she had to do this 50/50.
 
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