Quick question re: Child Support Calculations

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Gary M

Gary M

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Learned friends,

Most of the background info is in my original thread...

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f5/how-tough-get-variance-7603/

... but I have a simple (I think) question. Quick recap:

I am the custodial parent, Mom lives in Saskatchewan.

She has demanded spousal support, including arrears, despite a verbal agreement that I wouldn't pay SS and she wouldn't pay CS.

It's with the lawyers right now and my motion is ready to go. We sent them an Offer based on our incomes and the new Custodial Payor (of SS) formula, but one thing is confusing me - my lawyer insists that the SS she recieves is not counted as income for the purpose of calculating CS table amount. His explanation, basically, is that CS Table is based on Line 150 MINUS any SS received.

Can anybody here confirm or (hopefully) refute this? I'll need a reference, as my counsel showed me one from the CS Guidelines that seems to support his position in black and white.

What I'm hoping to be able to do is have SS = CS so no money has to change hands. I don't want her money and can afford to raise the kids comfortably without it, but it will REALLY peeve (ahem) me off to have to continue to have to pay her to continue to sit on her arse in perpetuity while I am raising the kids on my own.

Thanks in advance,

Cheers!

Gary
 
Check out section 8.9 of the guidelines. It is several pages in from the link I provided earlier but this link is to the page. It seems to explain the formula.
8.9 A Hybrid Formula for Spousal Support Paid by the Custodial Parent (The Custodial Payor Formula)



Spousal Support Advisory Guidelines
 
No one can make you pay any support, unless you have a Court order to do so. Revenue Canada sent me a letter and said that I could not deduct the child support I was paying my ex, because I didn't have a Court Order
 
Roni said:
Revenue Canada sent me a letter and said that I could not deduct the child support I was paying my ex, because I didn't have a Court Order
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This is maybe something interesting if it is true. Do you mean that the child support is deductable from your income if you have a court order???
 
In the past Child Support was tax deductable, that was changed but old orders were grandfathered, so if your order was from before the change it would still be deductable. If the parties got a new order, for example because of change of income, then they lost the deduction.

rwn, those pages, including 8.9, are for spousal support calculations, they don't answer any question about child support calculations.
 
Thanks guys - got the answer (even though I don't want that answer (grin)

Seems bizarre that it's income, but not income... Free money for her.

Methinks that the paperwork is lagging behind, and hasn't fully considered custodial payors yet.

Sux to be me, but that's life, right?

Thanks again,

Cheers!

Gary
 
Spousal support is tax deductable for you, and c/s is not taxable in your hands so ultimately you should come out ahead.

I would have assumed that SS would have increased her income as she has to claim it as income on her tax filings and you get to deduct it. Bizarre.
 
I was paying $1,000/mth in SS that was deductible and received $300/mth in non-taxable CS, so I cut her a check for $700 each month until SS ended. After the tax relief my net payment was $350/mth.

All that said, I wouldn't spend a buck just to save 35 cents.
 
Thanks DTTE

My lawyer came up with some pretty encouraging numbers based on imputing her salary to about $10K below what she could easily be making.

In keeping with my desire for a "wash" between SS and CS though, I (against his advice and most likely in a fit of ill-advised compassion) made an offer of $1000/mo SS in exchange for $500/mo CS. In my tax bracket I'll get half of the $1000 back, so it's a case of me breaking even and she'll make 2 or 3 hundred/month.

I doubt she'll go for it, though, as she still in "punish the bad man" mode. Her lawyer has already advised her (CC'd me) that she will remove herself from the case as soon as I file a Motion - she will not represent her in court. I guess that a blood-sucking leech who abuses her kids, tries to soak the CP for cash so she doesn't have to work, and tries to use the System (FRO) to punish her ex, tends to look bad in court... Her lawyer wants no part of that; can't say that I blame her....

On the good news front, the kids are still doing a-ok and are enjoying their new life. They've stopped fighting, daughter is back to being an A student (but she wants piercings: eeeeek!), and son recently wrote an English paper stating that his sister is his hero... I think they're going to make it through this after all :)

Happy Saturday, everyone!

Gary
 
Glad to hear the kids are doing well, that's the most important thing. As for the piercings, I think most kids want something or other these days, lol. There are worse things, I employ the 'pick your battles' strategy with mine. My 12 year old has over the last year said she wanted piercings. I've told her I have no problem with that - if she still wants them when she's 18 she can pierce whatever she wants!

Good to hear things are looking up for your family!
 
blinkandimgone said:
My 12 year old has over the last year said she wanted piercings. I've told her I have no problem with that - if she still wants them when she's 18 she can pierce whatever she wants!
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Heya Blink!

Tay just turned 15... I am torn between indulging her (being her friend) and making her wait until she's of age to do whatever she wants without consent (being her father).... I wonder, though, if I take a hard line what will happen when she's old enough to get 'em on her own: I foresee barbells and rings all over her face. Or, worse, if she and a friend start playing with an ice cube and a needle (been there, done that, have a scar on my left earlobe to prove it! LOL)

The rational intellectual in me thinks it's prudent to allow her to get one tasteful piercing (like a "Monroe") and hope that satisfies her desire to put holes in her face.

Way off topic now, huh?

Cheers!

Gary
 
I totally hear what you're saying, it's a tough call to make. If it were me, I'd be tempted to show my kid pictures of all the things that can go wrong with a bad piercing and impose a 'wait X months and if you feel the same way we'll talk about it again' stance. Aside from that, there is the option of allowing a piercing that won't be seen all the time like the navel. Also, make sure you're aware of all the possible long term effects: monroe = gum erosion, labret = erosion of tooth enamel etc. and go to a place that is willing to discuss those things with you. The place I use now is by far the best place I've ever been to and I'd be happy to share the info with you.

Or you could take her to get her nose pierced and that will cure her from a desire to get anything else pierced for a very long time! lol
 
Gary M said:
The rational intellectual in me thinks it's prudent to allow her to get one tasteful piercing (like a "Monroe") and hope that satisfies her desire to put holes in her face.
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A note about Monroe's that you may want to advise your daughter on (I learned this one from my pierced niece, who had one): They are more prone to infection than say...a brow piercing or nose piercing. They also can erode a tooth's enamel from rubbing against it. (same goes for tongue rings)

Also, from a practical standpoint, depending on her career aspirations, facial piercings are a definite deterrent for employability...and if you quoted me on that, I would deny it (discrimination, and all...) but having managed people in the past, I know it is the unspoken practise...Appearances still are everything!

Thought of encouraging a discreet and hideable tattoo? ;) lol
 
Tattoos are so much more permanent than piercings :( I have both and I'm glad I waited until I was an adult to get them, especially the tattoos because looking back, all the stuff I thought was cool or wanted when I was 15 would NOT be something I'd want to wear for the rest of my life and I'm glad I didn't get anything permanent so young.

Most piercings are fairly easy to hide as well, should one decide they wanted to. I have a couple facial piercings and I'll occassionally wear a glass or acrylic holder that's barely noticable from a normal 'personal space' distance. I'm often asked if I got rid of the piercings when I wear them.

'Tasteful' is often very subjective as well. I would be more careful to be sure a teen wanted body art for the right reasons - to enhance their look rather than to make it. Peer pressure can also be a big one. Body art doesn't change who you are and isn't going to make you fit in if you aren't already.

I find a lot of times that parents who allow their teens to get body art are subjected to more criticism than the kids themselves, people can be very judgemental. It's a very personal decision to make and everyone has different opinions on it, just keep in mind for your child's sake that for some reason when it comes to body art much of the general public feels it's ok to openly share their opinions on it.
 
Gary!

Gary!

Something I saw today made me think of this thread and I was curious to see how you handled the whole piercing deal with the kiddo?
 
blinkandimgone said:
Something I saw today made me think of this thread and I was curious to see how you handled the whole piercing deal with the kiddo?
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Blink,

I got advice from her Orthodontist and the piercings she wants are not recommended. Ahem... not recommended with predjudice: Man, he was visibly upset that I was even considering this (I wanted to smack him down and point out that I was likely the only dude on the planet that would seek a dentist's advice on piercings, but I knew his heart was in the right place).

Anyway, I was forced to be a Parent in this case and told Tay (D15) that I wouldn't allow her to get those piercings and that she'd have to wait until she was old enough to get them without permission (assuming that she will still want them (and I'm hoping that she won't)).

Get THIS: She doesn't hate me for it. Wow, who knew? :eek: I expected much door-slamming and dad-hating and threatening to go live with Mom but got none of that.... I underestimated my daughter, and also underestimated my value as a parent, I guess.

We've talked about alternatives, and are at opposite poles: She with a desire for something "different" and me suggesting that a small nose stud or perhaps second holes in her ear lobes would be just fine.

She understands that my objections are twofold: Tooth enamel/gum erosion ("snake bites" and "monroe") and permanent disfigurement ("guages" and weird (to Dad) ones like eyebrows and bridge of nose.)

So, we compromised: She's going in next week for ear-cartilage, nipples, & belly button piercings, and getting a HUGE back tattoo of the Jolly Roger that wraps around the front of her neck with crossed cutlasses. But her $10,000 mouth will be left intact. Damn, I'm getting good at this Dad thing....

Cheers!

Gary

OK, OK: So the compromise part was a little bit embellished: I've caved to double earlobe and one "cartilage" that places a ring about 3/4 the way up the back of the ear. And NO, I'm not going to see an ENT Doc first...
 
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