Question about reduced CS during postsecondary

[Snowstorm]

My daughter moved to college residence yesterday about 50 mins away. She'll be home most weekends at first as she's keeping her p/t job here until at least Christmas break is over.

Today my ex texted that because she's living away, he'd be reducing CS by about a third (we have 3 kids). I feel that's too much of a reduction as I will still be driving up to take her grocery shopping, buying supplies as needed, and of course supporting her when she's back home.

The other issue is he's been paying less than table CS for several years, so his arbitrary reduction would be difficult.

What is a fair CS reduction while a child is away at school?

 

[standing on the sidelines]

Is he paying for her residence, meal plan?

 

[rockscan]

Why haven’t you updated cs? That would be the first thing that needs to be done.

Technically since she is living away from home he is not obligated to pay cs but you could suggest that instead of paying the full cs for four months of the summer, he could pay the average of it over 12 months with no change for the summer months.

 

[mcdreamy]

Technically since she is living away from home he is not obligated to pay cs but you could suggest that instead of paying the full cs for four months of the summer, he could pay the average of it over 12 months with no change for the summer months.

This is not accurate. Dependent on both parental income and parental education, CS in university is very much a case-specific agreement.

 

[Snowstorm]

Is he paying for her residence, meal plan?

I'm not entirely sure. The original plan was we'd each pay half of tuition (about $6500, so $3250 each)

She got OSAP, almost half grants and the remainder loans. If we each pay half of tuition, she shouldn't have to use much of the loan portion and would finish school with little debt, as she also has money saved for books and expenses.

He told me he wanted her to take loans so she had incentive to try hard, and he'd pay his half in 2 1/2 years when she finished the course. Realistically, she would not see that money. Apparently he told her now he's willing to contribute about $2k this year. That's the last I've heard.

Why haven’t you updated cs? That would be the first thing that needs to be done.

Because we did our SA ourselves and I agreed to take a set amount of CS per month without adjusting annually for income. At the time I felt that if he wanted to work OT, etc, he should be able to keep the extra money for himself. In hindsight it was a terrible decision but it helped the separation to finalize quickly. A couple years in, he asked to reduce the amount by $200/month, which I also agreed to.

 

[rockscan]

Well then I would be telling him that you agreed to a lower amount and have not update properly. That if he insist on reducing cs arbitrarily you will file a motion for proper support as well as a proportionate share of expenses.

My husband paid about $2,000 for school expenses while on EI. If your ex is earning more than $25,000 a year his share would be more than two grand.

Not to mention that he doesn’t just get to decide how much and when he pays.

You may want to speak to a lawyer about the validity of your original agreement and what steps you should take now. Especially if you have two more children who will be going into post grad studies.

 

[Janus]

This is not accurate. Dependent on both parental income and parental education, CS in university is very much a case-specific agreement.

If the payor is helping to pay for residence and meal plan, CS would definitely be reduced. The actual amount of reduction is case-specific, but there would certainly be a reduction.

That said, he is not paying table, so he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

I would offer 30% less than table amount, with a stipulation that he provides you his notice of assessment (tax return). If he does not take that then feel free to go to court. It would be an easy win for you.

 

[Snowstorm]

Well then I would be telling him that you agreed to a lower amount and have not update properly. That if he insist on reducing cs arbitrarily you will file a motion for proper support as well as a proportionate share of expenses.

My husband paid about $2,000 for school expenses while on EI. If your ex is earning more than $25,000 a year his share would be more than two grand.

He is at top rate in a union job. We made our SA 6 1/2 years ago, so he must make significantly more now. He hasn't paid S7 expenses since probably the first year or so, and when he did I always paid 50% when my proportionate share would have been about 30-35% at that time.

I would offer 30% less than table amount, with a stipulation that he provides you his notice of assessment (tax return). If he does not take that then feel free to go to court. It would be an easy win for you.

That seems reasonable. Would I calculate the table amount by using the calculator for 3 kids, then using it for 2 kids, then reduce the difference by 30%?

How does S7 work for college when almost half of tuition/residence is covered by non-repayable grants? Does that become the child's share? OSAP is based on my income as the children reside with me.

 

[Ana Ana]

I really don't understand the logic behind reduce the payment because she moved! Most of your household expenses still almost the same, hope for her all the best and bright future

 

[Snowstorm]

I really don't understand the logic behind reduce the payment because she moved! Most of your household expenses still almost the same, hope for her all the best and bright future

I agree, especially because with the time off for Christmas break (almost a month) and almost five months off in summer, she's really not gone that long. Also when I moved her in, we did a grocery/supplies shop that cost about $100, and I expect I'll take her for groceries a couple times a month. But I know it's customary to reduce CS while the child is away, I'm just trying to see what's fair in my situation.

 

[rockscan]

I agree, especially because with the time off for Christmas break (almost a month) and almost five months off in summer, she's really not gone that long. Also when I moved her in, we did a grocery/supplies shop that cost about $100, and I expect I'll take her for groceries a couple times a month. But I know it's customary to reduce CS while the child is away, I'm just trying to see what's fair in my situation.

Depending on your incomes and expenses he would be required to pay something depending on what the judge thinks. My husband’s ex is fighting for 1/3 support but her income is double his and she lives outside her means. The judge at their motion said no support.

If she is in residence with a meal plan then the question may be why are you buying her groceries? She has a meal plan. He will argue that she has either a meal plan or groceries not both. (Mcdreamy will have something to say but this is from the judge we had).

The next question is if she is coming home so often (even to work), why did she go away to school and incur the additional costs? Could she not go to school closer to home and commute or find a job in the school town and not go home. That will be the next argument.

As for grants, they can either come off the top or be kids portion of the expense. The judge at my husband’s motion clearly stated that it would not shock the conscience of the court for kid to pay a third of the expenses and get a loan to cover that. (I should also note that this judge has presented on cs and share of expenses for kids in post secondary for years through the Bar association, Im not saying he is right, Im pointing out what he said from the bench.)

At this point you need to get a bit organized and start preparing yourself for a motion. Send him an email advising him that you have already reduced child support below table and have not requested an update based on income against the Federal Child Support Guidelines. That since he has decided to unilaterally reduce support already below table and determine an unreasonable split of expenses you are now seeking proof of his current income and a proportionate split of eligible expenses.

If he balks, start a motion to change. You will need to explain why you waited to seek a change and also respond to the arguments against it that I listed above. You will also need to defend why you spend so much additional money when there are meal plans or post grad programs closer to home when kid travels home so much. This was an argument my husbands ex lost—kid needed to be at home, well then why did they go away to school at an additional expense of $10,000 per year.

 

[Janus]

That seems reasonable. Would I calculate the table amount by using the calculator for 3 kids, then using it for 2 kids, then reduce the difference by 30%?

Sorry, I had a brainfart. I actually think that CS should be for 2 kids instead of 3. The 30% was my estimated reduction from table support for 3 kids.


So, to clarify. He has to provide you with his actual income, and then pay support for the kids who are actually living with you based on that income.


There are some fixed costs like a room, so perhaps you can negotiate something more than that, but not too much more. The final number will be less than CS for 3 kids so there isn't much wiggle room.

 

[Snowstorm]

Rockscan, thanks so much for all your input, it's very helpful! I will be sending him an email. The SA was never filed with the court as we were abiding by it (mostly) and I wanted to keep the separation as amicable as possible. I imagine I'd have to file that before starting any motions.

Child went away as she was waitlisted for the local college but accepted at the one 50 mins up north. Buying a vehicle plus gas, insurance, parking fees, commuting in the winter etc, made it more practical to live in residence and use the included bus pass for transportation. Residence fees were $6500 for the year and she doesn't have a meal plan. She does plan to buy her own groceries, but when I visit and drive her to the store, I know I'll pitch in. She'll be coming home most weekends for the first 8 weeks (until the clinical portion of her course starts) because she's trying to save as much as possible, as she is expected to contribute to her education.

Sorry, I had a brainfart. I actually think that CS should be for 2 kids instead of 3. The 30% was my estimated reduction from table support for 3 kids.


So, to clarify. He has to provide you with his actual income, and then pay support for the kids who are actually living with you based on that income.


There are some fixed costs like a room, so perhaps you can negotiate something more than that, but not too much more. The final number will be less than CS for 3 kids so there isn't much wiggle room.

I'm sorry, it was me that misunderstood you. I guess once I know his actual income I'll have a better idea.

As it is now, I make approx 60% of his salary and live alone with the 3 kids. He lives with his fiancee and they both work in the same union job. I'm contributing $3250 to her school, he's contributing $2000 total. If he arbitrarily reduces CS by 1/3, that will make things difficult for me, especially with my daughter still living with me 5 months of the year when school is out. Thanks for all of your advice!

 

[rockscan]

I don’t think you have to file the agreement with the court if you aren’t seeking to have FRO (if you are in Ontario) enforce the order. You can simply file a motion to change with the agreement attached.

Who he lives with and what that person earns is irrelevant so don’t even go down that path. His income and his failure to update it with you are the only important parts.

You will seek to change it based on his income and the school expenses. Keep it factual and to the point. Eligible expenses include tuition, books, residence fees, food and a reasonable amount for trips home.

 

[velas]

Let's just say he makes 100k and you make 60k (you said you make 60% of what he makes)

Child support for 3 kids is $1920 (4 months you have all 3 kids)
Child support for 2 kids is $1471 (8 months one is in residence)

The difference is $449. if you give him a reduction of 30%, knowing that you still have to maintain a place for her while she is gone, then he pays you $1471 plus $314 for the 8 months she is gone. Plus if she is residence at $6500, his share is 62.5% which would be an additional $507/month. She may be deemed responsible for a portion of her residence, but that is up to the judge and could be anything.

It is not unusual for children to go to university and live in residence, this is something he should have planned for. I've been saving since my daughter was 8, and if she doesn't go away, I'll have enough to pay for an entire degree.

 

[Janus]

It is not unusual for children to go to university and live in residence, this is something he should have planned for.

Well, it is not unusual for child support to stop when the kid goes to university, so perhaps it is something she should have planned for

People are running with my 30% in the wrong direction. I meant 30% of the total amount which approximates to the CS with two kids. If we are going on the difference between 2 and 3 kids, I would say it should be 30% of the difference payable, so 70% off. Of course, that number is completely made up, but it is my feeling.