What is one to add to an agreement. I have issues with this as I would love nothing more than contribute if I can but I don't want anything in the agreement that say mandatory or is it? . I mean if I don't have the money what is one to do. Currently working on finalizing our SA but how is one to pay when you pay Child support and also Spousal buy out ?
Post-Secondary Expenses
- Thread starter zanman
- Start date
Its in the federal child support guidelines so you will be obligated to pay. I have seen some court decisions where the agreement included language on kids having to get jobs, get grants, exhaust all scholarships etc available to them. You might want to include language to that effect. Also include language that you are to be provided with transcripts and income taxes filed for kid as well as all student loan award info. Make sure you have strong language on what is considered an expense (ie books vs pizza money) and how these expenses are to be proven (ie receipt from service vs estimates from school website) to avoid any misinterpretation.
Bottom line though, you will have to pay a portion.
Bottom line though, you will have to pay a portion.
Desperate_Dad
Member
While I generally agree with Rockspan, I'd like to add onto that. When the child who is going to post secondary applies for an OSAP loan (as likely will be done as you don't have the money), OSAP only looks at the income of the parent that the child lives with. If her income is low, a substantial part of the loan may be a grant - maybe up to 50%. In addition, the part that is a loan is interest free until the child finishes the degree.
I didnt mention that because I didnt know what province op was in. And OSAP is changing in the next few years. But yes, could *should* apply for OSAP for grant purposes HOWEVER only the 30% off tuition is normally eligible to come off the top. In many instances the other forgiveable portions are considered kids portion of the expense. Judges dont like kids going into debt.
Theres a sticky on post secondary break downs in the financial sub forum.
Theres a sticky on post secondary break downs in the financial sub forum.
Post-Secondary Expenses
Are moving expenses considered section 7?
ETA, its ok, minor panic. Lawyer calculated everything and the cheque and letter was ready to mail when the ex decided to spring this additional receipt. Wrote new cheque, scribbled on letter, copied sealed and stamped.
This shit is bananas.
Are moving expenses considered section 7?
ETA, its ok, minor panic. Lawyer calculated everything and the cheque and letter was ready to mail when the ex decided to spring this additional receipt. Wrote new cheque, scribbled on letter, copied sealed and stamped.
This shit is bananas.
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The chasing of the tail continues. Help me determine if this is an ignore thing.
Ex has sent an email demanding noa for the last five years to "properly calculate cs and expenses". My partner has sent his tax file, paystubs, ei statement, and t4s as they were true indicators of his current income (which he pointed out three years ago when she was adamant their agreement and exchanging t1 was gospel). Now she wants his noa for the past five years.
Is he obligated to send this? It never ends with her. She said agreement for years now she wants to follow fcsg. Divorce act and fcsg (and his lawyer) say actual income with proof not t1/noa. She filed with FRO when she disputed cs in 2014. If shes disputing the cs adjustments he calculated beginning in fall 2014 when kid wasnt at home (agreement says no cs), he provided her with his noa and pay info. Shes got all his updated true income info!
His noas show nothing different, does he have to keep jumping through these ridiculous hoops? Its a matter of finding them all, ordering from cra if missing, scanning, formatting and sending. He works full time and I dont want to keep taking my time to help. Hes back to not sleeping because of this bs. Shes disorganized and in financial mess. The kids are pissed at him because shes broke. She couldnt add a figure if her life depended on it. All this request is going to do is make her decide to calculate some new number that isnt right from five years ago. It just never ends!!
Ex has sent an email demanding noa for the last five years to "properly calculate cs and expenses". My partner has sent his tax file, paystubs, ei statement, and t4s as they were true indicators of his current income (which he pointed out three years ago when she was adamant their agreement and exchanging t1 was gospel). Now she wants his noa for the past five years.
Is he obligated to send this? It never ends with her. She said agreement for years now she wants to follow fcsg. Divorce act and fcsg (and his lawyer) say actual income with proof not t1/noa. She filed with FRO when she disputed cs in 2014. If shes disputing the cs adjustments he calculated beginning in fall 2014 when kid wasnt at home (agreement says no cs), he provided her with his noa and pay info. Shes got all his updated true income info!
His noas show nothing different, does he have to keep jumping through these ridiculous hoops? Its a matter of finding them all, ordering from cra if missing, scanning, formatting and sending. He works full time and I dont want to keep taking my time to help. Hes back to not sleeping because of this bs. Shes disorganized and in financial mess. The kids are pissed at him because shes broke. She couldnt add a figure if her life depended on it. All this request is going to do is make her decide to calculate some new number that isnt right from five years ago. It just never ends!!
blinkandimgone
Moderator
No, he doesn't have to provide 5 years. He provides his NOA and tax return annually- and she provides hers.
Typically when starting the process the last 3 years is provided. If this has been done, ignore her request.
Typically when starting the process the last 3 years is provided. If this has been done, ignore her request.
Yep the shared all that when they divorced. Their agreement said tax returns. She refuted when he provided proof of his actual income like his lawyer said to calculate cs properly. She refuted that and filed the agreement with FRO. Hes been overpaying cs while kid was at school because she refused to update FRO when kid left home (its in their agreement no cs if kid goes away) even though he reminded her twice. Lawyer said keep track to use the overpayment against future cs or living expenses. He calculated that and subtracted that amount from his portion of living expenses. Last year she sent him all her tax forms and all her noas for the last five year (which werent necessary) to calculate kids school expenses. He sent his noa because they calculated % based on their taxes (even though his actual income was lower than his taxes). This year he calculated his % based on his current income which is higher than his income taxes and noa to show good faith and reasonable behaviour. Also included all the required proof of this income (pay stub and t4 for end of the year employment). Now shes demanding he provide his noa for the last five years because she sent him hers. None of that info relates to the expenses for kid being away at school so getting that info from cra and sending it isnt necessary!
I have recommended he put her on ignore but he stresses. I cant handle the lack of sleep and nightly house pacing. Im already making him take a sleep aid so he can function at work.
I have recommended he put her on ignore but he stresses. I cant handle the lack of sleep and nightly house pacing. Im already making him take a sleep aid so he can function at work.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
She could send him a photo of the contents of her underwear drawer and medicine cabinet and demand that he do the same because she sent him hers, he is obviously not obligated to. Neither is he for this.
He sends his tax return, T slips and NOA annually. She can make a request for once per year for the disclosure once per year and that's it. If he's met his obligations the rest he can ignore and she can take him to court for it if she truly feels she is entitled and he can seek costs when the judge says no.
He sends his tax return, T slips and NOA annually. She can make a request for once per year for the disclosure once per year and that's it. If he's met his obligations the rest he can ignore and she can take him to court for it if she truly feels she is entitled and he can seek costs when the judge says no.
Post-Secondary Expenses
Ok just to clarify...if she asks for disclosure once per year he can decide if response is necessary FOR THAT YEAR OF INFORMATION? He didnt send his noa this year because he sent his taxes (as per their agreement) which were irrelevant as his current income (double his line 150) was used to calculate school expenses and update cs. Should he just send the 2015 noa and tell her he wont be sending anything else from four years ago?
Now shes picking and choosing what she wants to interpret from fcsg and their agreement. The fcsg also say if line 150 is not true income then you are obligated to send all relevant documentation to prove income for the purposes of child support calculations which he has done over the last four years. And his lawyer put together his package with all the proof and said he would comfortably defend that in court.
Ok just to clarify...if she asks for disclosure once per year he can decide if response is necessary FOR THAT YEAR OF INFORMATION? He didnt send his noa this year because he sent his taxes (as per their agreement) which were irrelevant as his current income (double his line 150) was used to calculate school expenses and update cs. Should he just send the 2015 noa and tell her he wont be sending anything else from four years ago?
Now shes picking and choosing what she wants to interpret from fcsg and their agreement. The fcsg also say if line 150 is not true income then you are obligated to send all relevant documentation to prove income for the purposes of child support calculations which he has done over the last four years. And his lawyer put together his package with all the proof and said he would comfortably defend that in court.
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blinkandimgone
Moderator
He should be providing his disclosure annually within 30 days of taxes of the date if the original order without her having to request it.
He sends his NOA, his t-slips and full tax return for the previous year. That's it. He doesn't need to tell her he is or isn't going to send anything prior to that as that just opens the door for more argument.
He will have met his obligation and that's the end of it, he doesn't respond to anything further.
He sends his NOA, his t-slips and full tax return for the previous year. That's it. He doesn't need to tell her he is or isn't going to send anything prior to that as that just opens the door for more argument.
He will have met his obligation and that's the end of it, he doesn't respond to anything further.
OntarioDaddy
New member
It sounds like ex is right. He should be providing his NOA each year regardless of if he feels it's irrelevant. If it went to court, they would ask for it as well.
If he provides them each year he could ignore her request, but it doesn't sound like he does.
If he provides them each year he could ignore her request, but it doesn't sound like he does.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
If it went to court they would ask for his last year's disclosure, not last 5 years as it was already disclosed at the outset (last three years is what is asked ) and he is not obligated to provide his last 5 years every year.
OntarioDaddy
New member
It depends. Court usually asks for last 3 years, but if there are issues with cs or s7 going further back, then they would go back as far as needed. Normally you send info once a year and there are no issues. If he hasn't been sending it though, that is different.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
They had a written agreement that they followed and she
Decided she wanted to go off the guidelines instead and now wants to go back 5 years.
Decided she wanted to go off the guidelines instead and now wants to go back 5 years.
Their agreement says taxes. He did that. In 2013 she disagreed that his cs went down because they followed taxes. Then he lost his job and his lawyer told him to go back and calculate based on his actual income not his taxes which he did. She rejected that payment and said they have to follow the agreement and use taxes. Then she filed with FRO so the cs amount was REALLY out of whack. THEN kid left home making his cs payment over paid. His lawyer said it doesnt matter what the taxes or noa say, his actual income is used to calculate cs. (Theres a line in the fcsg and the divorce act on proper income for the purposes of cs calculations because of people who deflate their line 150 etc.) Last year when the school expenses came up she decided to send him her last five years of taxes and noas. His lawyer saw the email and the stuff and said "this is irrelevant, if her line 150 is the true amount then that year is used" and he calculated the % for the costs. This year the cs overpayment was finalized with all the documentation to prove the calculations (t1, t4s, statement of ei account and paystubs to show his current income which is higher than the line 150).
Now she wants to go back and recalculate all the cs from 2012 to now and then calculate the last two years school expenses because she thinks he owes her money. If they do that calculation she will actually owe HIM about $3000 because he was reasonable and included costs not applicable, allocated the resp and grant to kid (against the terms of their order) and used his higher income to calculate his %. (All of which was against his lawyers advice but lawyer agreed him being reasonable on those calculations would benefit him if it went to court).
Hes been more than reasonable the last four years, has provided all of the relevant documentation for calculation and now shes demanding he follow rules shes interpreting. Shes not bringing a child support application forward.
He can provide her with this years noa but like I said, he used his current income (with proof provided) to calculate the expenses.
Shes out of money and is spinning around in circles trying to make him dance like a monkey.
Now she wants to go back and recalculate all the cs from 2012 to now and then calculate the last two years school expenses because she thinks he owes her money. If they do that calculation she will actually owe HIM about $3000 because he was reasonable and included costs not applicable, allocated the resp and grant to kid (against the terms of their order) and used his higher income to calculate his %. (All of which was against his lawyers advice but lawyer agreed him being reasonable on those calculations would benefit him if it went to court).
Hes been more than reasonable the last four years, has provided all of the relevant documentation for calculation and now shes demanding he follow rules shes interpreting. Shes not bringing a child support application forward.
He can provide her with this years noa but like I said, he used his current income (with proof provided) to calculate the expenses.
Shes out of money and is spinning around in circles trying to make him dance like a monkey.
She wont ever calculate that. She will find some way to say he owes her money. Then it will be a cycle of him doing the calculations properly to send, her dispute, his dispute lather rinse repeat.
Its like she just has to continue to engage. No matter what he sends she doesnt agree but when he needs info she ignores him. Hes still waiting on a receipt for an expense she claimed in 2014. Is she going to send it or sit and try to calculate the child support from 2012 to now?
Its like she just has to continue to engage. No matter what he sends she doesnt agree but when he needs info she ignores him. Hes still waiting on a receipt for an expense she claimed in 2014. Is she going to send it or sit and try to calculate the child support from 2012 to now?
Blink, I mentioned this point to my partner and he agreed. Was also frustrated that her refusal to follow the guidelines a couple of years ago also resulted in her telling the kids he didnt pay child support. His response back included pointing out her flip flopping and also the item in the "how to calculate your income" that states if 150 isnt the right amount you should use paystubs or a letter from your employer which he provided. So far no response. Not sure what shes up to.