Please help! Spousal support

[Secer]

I`ve been married for about 32 years, me & my ex were operating the business 50/50. When I was working on the construction, she was doing the paper work, office work, pay role & the finances. We were separate more than one year, from that date the company is not operating anymore and nobody from us is working. We live off the savings. Did I have to pay her spousal support?

Thank you!

 

[billm]

You live off the savings?

Have you formally split everything (assets, debts, cars, houses, retirement)?

 

[formyGirls]

Was the business incorporated or not?

Who are the directors? You or her or both?

Did she take a somewhat regular paycheque, or benefits like company paid vehicle/ gas/ medical insurance/ etc.?

Can you prove her involvement, i.e. signatures on cheques, paperwork, do suppliers/accountants/lawyers/family know she has involvement, so you can prove the money she was paid was for an actual service she provided?

Would you have been able to run the business and be as profitable as you were without her, and without hiring someone else to replace her, and can convince a judge of this?

Why did the company stop operating? Was her role so vital to the business that she cannot be replaced at a reasonable cost?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am in a similar situation, and need a bit more info before giving more of an opinion.

Thanks

 

[HammerDad]

Was the business incorporated or not?

Who are the directors? You or her or both?

Directorship is of minor relevance if he was incorporated. Directors are not always the owners. They may make the day to day decisions along with the officers, but the real (in terms of ownership) question is, who are the shareholders? If she was a director or officer, did she draw a salary? What was your and her salary? What if any dividends did the corporation declare to shareholders in each fiscal year? ie.. pretty much determining incomes and assets.

If it was an unincorporated company (a sole proprietorship or general partnership) any money made by the company would be personal income for the proprietor or partners. So if you guys were registered as a partnership ownership would be determined by what, if any, partnership agreement there was. A proprietorship would mean he was the sole owner and if his wife worked there, he could go to his accountant and prove she was an employee by providing pay stubs issued by the company.

Spousal support will depend on whether or not on difference in your incomes etc.

 

[Secer]

Yes, the business was incorporated, Ltd. and we were equal shareholders.
Both of us are the directors of the company.
She was taking the money from the company, she was driving the vehicle from the company, etc.;
Sure I can prove her involvement, she signed all the company cheques.
I would have been able to run the business without her, everybody is replaceable, but what`s going on- I don`t know anything about the office work, and she doesn`t know anything about the construction work. That means dead to the company.
The company stop operating because I didn`t feel with my health I can run a company anymore, it was too hard physical work, and the company have to be desolved.

Thank you

 

[formyGirls]

Did you pay yourselves equally, or was one person paid more? If you were getting substantially more, there may be an element of SS. As well, get ready to produce proof of her involvement, including affidavits of witnesses who know of the role she played in the company, etc. If she denies or downplays her role, or tries to play the "I had nothing to do with the company - it was just income splitting", you will need to counter this with whatever proof you can get.

Depending on her relationship with your business contacts, better to get to them and talk about it before she does, to reduce the chance of her attaining misleading affidavits and statements.

 

[Tayken]

Depending on her relationship with your business contacts, better to get to them and talk about it before she does, to reduce the chance of her attaining misleading affidavits and statements.

I would take this advice with some caution. I would not draw your customer base into the dispute. There should be more than enough financial evidence filed with Revenue Canada that you can provide any evidence to income. Unless you had a mostly cash based business with no tracking you may have an argument but, no evidence to your accusations.

Furthermore, there are requirements for tax filiings and bank accounts. You are a director and equal owner and have equal access to the records. If there was any weird accounting a forensic accountant is your best bet to determine what happened. Furthermore, a judge will take a forensic accountant's testamony for fact as they have a governing body to insure the quality of their work.

It all depends of the complexity of the money movements.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[pokeman]

somewhat similar situation here, her first affidavit stated i had a company
which she believed had alot of money but she was a poor damsel in distress ...

so i produced company cheques she wrote, deposit books, bank card withdrawals all linked too her etc ...

now keep in mind i live in calgary alberta which i believe is the last stronghold of discrimination against men/fathers in canada , one of my
lawyers told me 'this court is going to discriminate against you and thats just the way it is here' ... yeah !!

but the lawyers were all sweeping her company involvement under the rug , she owed me $35000 in child support so they said I owed her $35000 more in spousal ...

dont let anyone tell you 'child support is the law', i have talked to other dads here who never got a dime from dead beat mothers , but thats another storey ...

oh, and after she filed the affidavit of knowing nothing about the company she wrote cheques and drained the corporate account to balance = 0 ... I believe that was $23,000+

end result , the court was going to make me pay no matter what - i contacted revenue canada and they did an audit - they tagged her with all the money she stole ... company still had to pay the CPP/EI on it

to counter this the lawyers ( including mine ) without court order decided to sell the home and what not and once sold her lawyer started fightening for more ... tieing everything up ...

me and my kids ended up living in a tent for a week , and pennyless I accepted a bad deal which is exactly what the lawyers planned ... never got a dime from that dead beat mother in child support ...

so get yourself a good lawyer, talk to mens groups and/or reference from a trusted man friend ... else they will dissolve you and you'll pay no matter how injust it is ....

 

[Mess]

It's funny that Alberta always goes Conservative and this the kind of equality you get from the law there. Seems like biased court decisions are spawned more from old fashioned paternalistic roles that expected men to be, and remain, breadwinners and women to be dependants.

This comment isn't directed at anyone here, it's just a whimsical thought.

 

[staysingle]

Secer,

In the end, what was the amount of all your lawyers invoices from all of this?

 

[beebie]

Spousal support depends on your two incomes after separation. After 32 years, she is eligible for spousal support but if there is no major difference in yur incomes, there is nothing there.

I take it she was trying to argue that she did not work during the marriage and so she experienced economic loss as a result of the marriage and so deserves spousal support. You should be able to show otherwise if she was involved in the business by your affidavit evidence.

Are you saying neither one of you is working now?

 

[beebie]

QB judges are appointed federally so can't blame Alberta goverment for them ; however the Provincial judges are appointed by the Prov government and may be more conservative for that reason.

 

[pokeman]

the guidelines for spousal are available on the fed gov site

however, in my case they broke all the rules/interpretation printed there, i also put my X through post secondary school 3x , she got a 3yr full time diploma, and 2 others in marketing and writting ... all while i worked and paid the bills;

she was making over 50,000 a year past 4 years and I didnt get a dime in C/S - last 4 months i had custody i finally got an order she was to contibute to the childrens afterschool program and health - i presented a $1800 bill which she never paid, I paid my lawyer about $2000 trying to collect it , for health i was to give her the childrens dental, eye glass receipts etc which she would claim on her health plan ( i had none as i was in arrears ) , she pocketed the cheque ... no one would do anything.

sometimes I wonder if I am in same court system others posting on this site are in;

to me the women lawyers and judge in my case just didnt think CS should be paid to a man, i was broke and disclosure showed she had +$10,000 in her bank account, i have talked to other fathers here who also lost their home etc to the mother and while they had custody didnt get a dime in CS;

plus i paid her $18,000 ontop of the $ she stole + she worked for corporation + she got 3 post secondary educations while together ... and still I didnt get a dime in CS


In Secer's case I believe if he binds her to company then the question will be can she find a similar paying suitable job which she can easily flub , and he gets gouged;


as for Judge appointment, the Judge I had was formerly a lawyer in Calgary so wether federal or prov appointed attitudes and behaviors dont fall to far from the tree ... this Judge told my X's council in open court to send a message to her client " IT WONT BE LONG NOW " , this isnt judging its processing ....