Paying Full Table CS with 50/50 Shared Parenting

[LovingFather32]

The longer she is on welfare, and unemployed, the easier it is for her to make a case that she is unemployable. Then she would likely go back to school.... and so on.

Yes, this has been a growing concern for me. The longer I wait the more this situation kind of becomes status quo .. that she needs my money. I suppose she can come at me for SS at some point saying she has gotten use to the lifestyle. I also feel like the longer I wait the more accepting or acquiescing I am to the situation.
I'd rather get in to court and deal with all that before the above occurs.

A judge cannot force someone to work. You have to have income imputed. In the end it doesn't matter if she works or not.

The lawyer at FLIC who I had a chat with told me that judges don't usually like imputing income to those on social assistance .. but I read a lot of case law that said different.

I think a great strategy would be to impute her to minimum wage until she finds a job. This would be the motivation she needs.

So this clearly indicates that the judge expected LFEx to be employed soon. The judge also made it possible for the switch to offset to happen soon afterwards, instead of being delayed until annual income disclosure and CS adjustment. Clearly, the expectation was for her to become employed and for CS to promptly switch to offset.

Yes Rioe, this is what y entire case is. People can get stuck on wording but the intention of the order is quite clear. She was supposed to have found work and we move to offset.. she didn't hold her end of the bargain.

The material change in circumstance is that LFEx has not become employed as anticipated. She is a highly employable individual who is unlikely to be able to prove that she could not find a job of any sort.

Precisely! And that's just one change in circumstance I'll be discussing.

LF paying full table CS in a 50-50 custody situation is unsustainable, and was clearly never intended to be sustained. But as long as her income being zero means he has to pay more, she has no incentive to do what she said she would do - find a job.

Hence our problem. Shopping at food banks and getting free money with nothing but free time on her hands is such an attractive lifestyle. Imagine..$100.00/month rent and no bills.

She works...she loses everything.the job banks, the low rent, the no bills. I honestly believe only a judge can light a fire under her a&*.

"Girls Arn't Smart or Strong Enough To Work Daddy?"

D5 asked me the other day why only daddy's work. She asked "Girls arn't smart and strong enough to work daddy"? .. C'mon ladies ..doesn't that piss you off? I was raised by a single mom. y mom had me when she was 16. She didnt ask for any support. She worked nights at a chinese restaurant, I went to college with her some days. I never did without. My mom would pick bottles to get the toy I wanted. Then she became a penitentiary guard .. talk about a tough woman.

My ex and her mom seem to be teaching her that their way of life is normal. I explain to D5 that women are strong, intelligent and many have better jobs than men...that she can be whatever she wants when she grows up if she works hard at it.

LF needs to ask that A, an income be imputed to her, of roughly what someone of her education and skills could earn, or in the alternative, minimum wage, and B, CS switch to offset immediately, reflecting either her imputed income, or her actual income, should she find a job that pays more.

You basically just read off my rough motion to change requests.
I feel those are reasonable right?

LFEx is clearly treating his CS money beyond the offset amount like spousal support, not to mention the welfare, so she does not have to work. That is not the intention of CS. Nor welfare, for that matter, but it's not relevant to his motion.

That's the scary part. She will try to turn this in to a form of spousal.

You got your agreement in February or so? So you're at about the six month mark where it is suitable that you bring a motion?

January, 2016. So we've hit the 7 month mark.

Do you have a mediation clause in your agreement? Don't forget to approach your ex with an offer to settle before bringing her to court.

Yes I do ave a mediation clause.

It states basically that if we can not agree on issues of "parenting" we are to

a) Schedule another LAO SC ; if we still can't resolve it b) Counselling; if we still can't resolve it...c)"bring a motion".

So I guess the question is .. is this a "parenting" issue? I don't think so. Thoughts?

Offer her imputation at minimum wage. If she takes it, her free money drops, giving her more incentive to actually find a good job, hopefully one better than minimum wage.

And this is why I frequent this site. Freaking brilliant. I sent her a polite e-mail not long ago politely asking how her job search was going and letting her know that I was having a bit of a tough time paying full CS in a 50/50. I got no response. Was going to simply bring that e-mail to court. But an OTS blows that out of the water, albeit, she surely won't agree to anything being imputed to min. wage.

 

[arabian]

Something I have found personally in my years in litigation is importance of credibility.

If you have irrefutable proof that your ex is working under-the-table (not declaring it to Ontario Works or CRA) then it would definitely be considered when your application is being weighed. This is something that sticks on the file indefinitely.

Of course if you have no proof then do not even hint at the matter because that would be used against you.

 

[rockscan]

Was she working before having the baby? (I cant remember...) and then after her mat leave was up she filed all the false allegations and bolted? She can work, she used up her 1 year mat leave, was going to go back to work and then bolted using all her false allegations to get a free ride. The judge threw all that out so she would be hard pressed to use an excuse that staying home has killed her skills. Her choice to stay home has killed her. She needs to be ordered to do something. Even part timers make pretty good money. Hell she could get a part time govt job for $20 an hour. Summer students make $18 plus!

 

[LovingFather32]

Was she working before having the baby? (I cant remember...) and then after her mat leave was up she filed all the false allegations and bolted?

Yes. She always worked a job before the baby. She even received maternity benefits from her employer. She worked under lawyers and most recently was a CSR for Bell.

She can work, she used up her 1 year mat leave, was going to go back to work and then bolted using all her false allegations to get a free ride.

Yep .. pretty much sums it up.

The judge threw all that out so she would be hard pressed to use an excuse that staying home has killed her skills. Her choice to stay home has killed her. She needs to be ordered to do something. Even part timers make pretty good money. Hell she could get a part time govt job for $20 an hour. Summer students make $18 plus!

D5's school just came out with a listing for before/After school care...$17/hour, not bad. I applied just for fun but knew I probably couldn't because I work at a school 20 mins away. This is right in ex's neighborhood and she could be part of D5's school community doing this. Nope....it's work.

What sets her apart from many is her complete bilingualism. Government jobs are seeking ppl right now with her background (administrative, phone skills, etc). She would have a job in just a few phone calls. Jobs arn't the issue...my ex is.

 

[rockscan]

Make sure you print off the jobs (both part time and full time) and make note of the salary. Then when you make your ots you can put something in that range. My partners lawyer went through with us how he would be as opposing counsel on him if he tried to defend himself against purposeful underemployment. Even with his medical issues last year, he was to be applying and following up. Being a single mother isnt an excuse. You have equal parenting time, how is it you can work full time then?

 

[LovingFather32]

Another quick question..

The Jan 2016 agreement mentioned nothing of any arrears They weren't even addressed. Yet I've still been paying an extra $50/month and they're still being garnished off my EI, taxes, etc.

If my agreement says the payment is 365/month..should I still be paying the $415 (arrears)?

 

[arabian]

You can likely make an arrangement through FRO by completing a financial statement.

 

[LovingFather32]

You can likely make an arrangement through FRO by completing a financial statement.

I tried that .. my rep is a real pitbull. She told me that when people fall behind they dont do us any favors. I tried to explain it was because I work seasonal and they already garnished half of that .. that I'm even going to have troubles paying rent. She didn't care. I've paid my CS plus arrears ($50/month) religiously and faithfully up until this summer. Nothing has piled up. I only missed July...and not sure how to do August..but I'm working on it.
Another good indicator that change is needed.

 

[arabian]

Hope you aren't paying that lousy lawyer you had....

Unless people have walked in your shoes it is very, very difficult to imagine what you must be going through. You are trying to strike a balance between paying your ongoing support (which is more than it should be) and supporting your family. On top of that you are looking at back-to-school costs which are probably significant in relation to your current EI. You likely won't see a full paycheque until the end of September. It is no wonder you are motivated to get this matter addressed.

I wonder if your ex would cut you some slack until the end of September? She can certainly contact FRO and agree to a temporary arrangement. This might be worth consideration.

 

[shirley1011]

FRO will not do anything without a court order. And even after you get the motion to change they say it takes up to 6 weeks for them to get the order dealt with....but they will do the calculations from the date the order is approved.

 

[blinkandimgone]

Another quick question..

The Jan 2016 agreement mentioned nothing of any arrears They weren't even addressed. Yet I've still been paying an extra $50/month and they're still being garnished off my EI, taxes, etc.

If my agreement says the payment is 365/month..should I still be paying the $415 (arrears)?

Speak with your case worker and make sure they have a copy of the original and the updated agreement that does not indicate any arrears owing. The original agreement is now outdated with the new one in place and they potentially will do away with the arrears.

 

[LovingFather32]

Speak with your case worker and make sure they have a copy of the original and the updated agreement that does not indicate any arrears owing. The original agreement is now outdated with the new one in place and they potentially will do away with the arrears.

I brought this up with FRO and she did a very great job of ignoring the question and changing topics.

Since the abduction, I've responsibly paid my CS and arrears monthly, to the point where arrears were within a few hundred dollars (from 2500). This summer has been horrendous financially. I had work all lined up providing ABA sessions to 2 autistic children at $26/hour. Both children fell ill and left me jobless.

I asked for a payment agreement from FRO, described my situation and she told me that I missed July and they dont do any favors. I receive only $300/month from my EI...FRO has taken the rest. My rent alone was $675.

Now FRO's saying that I'm way behind on arrears...but how is that so? If my "current" agreement says $365/month for CS )no mention of arrears)....and my EI is garnishing $394/month for both months of the summer, how can I be behind. Not to mention my trillium and other gov't money is being deducted $96. My usual payments during the year is $415 (I've paid $50 on arrears monthly since the abduction)....but again...no mention of arrear payments on current agreement..only the old order.

I'm barely surviving here. I have another job interview for a senior youth leader on Thursday .. so Ill be working all day at the school board, then 4 hours/evening after that...just to keep my head afloat. All the while FRO says they will be garnishing my wages from my employer (when Im not even behind?)

Can anybody see why I need to do this motion to change? I dont want to. In fact I havent even filed yet. I was so beat up the past 2 years from this crap...going up against a pitbull legal aid lawyer just doesnt seem fun ... but geez...I honestly thought she would start working and we could switch to offset.

I'm sitting here with all my paper work, financial statement complete. All I have to do is go to the courthouse and do it. But this will make her go cray cray again and everything seems so damn amicable right now. But I cant live like this. It will start another war and I don't want that. I'm not litigation-happy...I want as far away from it as humanly possible. But I do want to be able to put food in my cupboards, I dont want D5 to miss to on her dance and swimming classes, I want to be able to pay rent and bills.

What to do?

 

[arabian]

I don't think you are "litigation happy" - far from that.

When you are about to lose your vehicle or are faced with eviction you will probably file your papers.

Let your ex (welfare bum) go nutzoid. Perhaps it will motivate her.

 

[LovingFather32]

I don't think you are "litigation happy" - far from that.

When you are about to lose your vehicle or are faced with eviction you will probably file your papers.

Let your ex (welfare bum) go nutzoid. Perhaps it will motivate her.

I hear you .. but who wants to wait for an eviction notice? I will likely never be able to rent again and it'll scar my credit rating badly. As it is now I'll have to talk to the landlord about paying very late. Nobody can live off a few hundred per month .. its not fun. I'll simply have to work 70 hours/week so that my ex can remain "living the life" of no financial responsibilities. Not sure how Ill do any pick ups/drop offs or have time for anything really ... but I guess thats what I have to do since she wont work. That .. or file a motion to change.

 

[LovingFather32]

I also just want to say that my g/f pays her half for everything...she also pays for her child. I'm not supporting another family...in fact its cheaper than it would be living alone in many respects. She's even helped me out this summer with her student loans .. First time in my life that;s ever happened to me in a relationship..I feel like such a loser. The issue here is my income vs. expenses...my budget reflected what the agreement had me anticipate .. her working and offset...point blank.

 

[rockscan]

Call your local mpps office and ask if they know anything about the process to switch case workers on FRO. Or the ombudmans office. Both of those offices will investigate and you may be able to get money changed.

 

[arabian]

Unfortunately maintenance enforcement agencies are obligated to collect a minimum of 40% of federal money (EI, CPP). When people don't return their financial statements (notarized) as requested payors face a fine and then FRO can collect up to 50%. I believe there is only flexibility when there is a garnishee on earned income. If LF32 were to formally request a review of arrears he might be able to have the process temporary halted.

Maintenance Enforcement Agencies do have ability to exercise emergency measures and I would look into that further by requesting to meet/speak with a senior FRO representative.

I believe that the only way to have the federal garnishee stopped would be through a court Order changing the CS. By the time this matter is heard LF32 will be back working full-time and no longer collecting EI.

Ombudsman investigations can take years.

 

[rockscan]

Im just thinking of how to get a senior person on his file. If his worker isnt listening or giving the right answers can he seek management review?

 

[LovingFather32]

Paper work is now completed and filed for the MTC. FLIC and the clerks all knew me .. even remembered my file # .. crazy how I used to basically live there while fighting for 50/50.

Now I have to get someone to serve her in person no later that 30 days before the motion, which is on Oct.

Before I do that I would like to ask your advice on wording for an OTS. I want to make clear that I do NOT want to be in court (god its so true .I feel sick to my stomach walking thorough the doors).

What would be the best way to word an offer to settle on CS?
- dropping arrears?
- Imputing your income to min. wage at least until you find full time employment?
- etc?

Other stuff going on as well.

In the order I was to have control of the SIN card. She refuses to give it to me.

In the order we were supposed to be able to attend Medical appt's, etc together. She only scheduled them during my work hours and I get no info. I scheduled eye Doc, ear Doc, etc and I invited (and she came) every time.

The order obviously stated that we are both entitled to educational info as well. She is refusing to give e a copy of D5's report card from last year (a very special one because..it was her first one). I e-mailed the teacher and they said they can only send out one. My guess is that she doesn't want me to have the proof of how amazing D5 did. If you remember correctly my ex said D5 was a mess, also that she hated and felt comfortable around all males....her j/k teacher ended up being male and D5 loved him.

Anyhow, I appreciate any advice for these topics. Thanks.

Oh...and none of the issues besides the CS is mentioned in my materials. I'm not there for a war...just some financial balance.

Thanks

 

[Rioe]

Before I do that I would like to ask your advice on wording for an OTS. I want to make clear that I do NOT want to be in court (god its so true .I feel sick to my stomach walking thorough the doors).

What would be the best way to word an offer to settle on CS?
- dropping arrears?
- Imputing your income to min. wage at least until you find full time employment?
- etc?

Dear Ex,

It has been six months since we were in court, at which time you had assured the judge you were seeking employment, and he ordered us to switch to the offset CS system when that happened. This has not happened as planned. To avoid having to go back to court to resolve this issue, I would like to propose that we switch to the offset CS system starting on October 1, by imputing an income to you of $23,712 a year (full-time minimum wage equivalent).

My CS based on my previously disclosed 2015 income of $LFk would remain X a month, and your CS would be $190. This means that $X-190 would be what I paid you monthly going forward until adjustment time after taxes are done in 2017.

If we did end up in court, I would be explaining to the judge that you are a bilingual paralegal, and could reasonably earn far more than minimum wage.

I wouldn't try to mess with the arrears. That would be a huge argument to get into over what you said is only a few hundred dollars remaining. And no matter how unfairly she did it, the fact is that your Ex did incur all the child related expenses while she had the kid at the beginning.

Other stuff going on as well.

In the order I was to have control of the SIN card. She refuses to give it to me.

The judge also ordered that I be the parent in possession of the SIN card. Please provide it to me as ordered.

In the order we were supposed to be able to attend Medical appt's, etc together. She only scheduled them during my work hours and I get no info. I scheduled eye Doc, ear Doc, etc and I invited (and she came) every time.

I'm not sure what to do about this one. How much overlap is there between your work hours and typical doctor's hours? I find there's rarely leeway to schedule doctor's appointments at convenient times for me, at least. You might be better off calling the doctor and making your own appointments? Or calling the doctor and finding out what happened at appointments you missed?

The order obviously stated that we are both entitled to educational info as well. She is refusing to give e a copy of D5's report card from last year (a very special one because..it was her first one). I e-mailed the teacher and they said they can only send out one. My guess is that she doesn't want me to have the proof of how amazing D5 did. If you remember correctly my ex said D5 was a mess, also that she hated and felt comfortable around all males....her j/k teacher ended up being male and D5 loved him.

My school board provides two report cards for divorced families, one for each parent. (Of course, they send both of them to me and I'm the one who passes one on to my ex, so it's not a perfect system, but...) Before whining at your ex about this one, I would contact the school (not just the teacher) and find out more information.

Maybe just a blanket statement such as

The judge ordered joint custody. This means we must share decision-making and information about such things as health and education. However, you have been scheduling D's medical appointments at times you are aware I cannot attend, and you have not been informing me about what has occurred at these appointments. You have also refused to provide me with a copy of D's report card from JK, despite my requests. To avoid having to go back to a judge to revisit the idea of me having sole custody, I ask that you be cooperative about these important coparenting matters and provide me with the information I request.