Paying Full Table CS with 50/50 Shared Parenting

From what LF has posted, the wording of the final agreement is that Dad will pay Mom the full table amount with 50/50 custody until Mom finds full-time employment. Mom will notify him within 30 days of beginning full-time work and the CS arrangement will switch from Dad paying the full table to offset. The agreement does not say that Mom will find full-time work - only that she will notify him if/when she does. Big difference.

Although I think everyone agrees it would be good for Mom for find work, the fact that she hasn't done so is not a violation of Mom and Dad's final agreement. Devil in details - be careful what you sign.
 
From what LF has posted, the wording of the final agreement is that Dad will pay Mom the full table amount with 50/50 custody until Mom finds full-time employment. Mom will notify him within 30 days of beginning full-time work and the CS arrangement will switch from Dad paying the full table to offset. The agreement does not say that Mom will find full-time work - only that she will notify him if/when she does. Big difference.
Umm no .. it certainly does not say "if/when" she finds employment. Did you just make that up? It says she's currently seeking employment and must notify me when she does to switch to offset. Not once does it mention if/when.
There's even a clause in the final order stating that if child care is getting in the way of ex finding work, to place child in daycare.

There were paragraphs in that agreement dedicated strictly to her finding a job. It's not that complicated.. any judge will encourage her to work so that we're able to move to offset in our shared custody.

You're right, it would make a big difference with your made up wording. If you're going to give advice, all I ask is that you don't throw in imaginary words to support your position. Any judge will encourage her to get a job....as per our agreement.

Although I think everyone agrees it would be good for Mom for find work, the fact that she hasn't done so is not a violation of Mom and Dad's final agreement. Devil in details - be careful what you sign.
A little rewording of the order and having a deadline set for mom to find work seems appropriate no? I think that would be reasonable if nothing else. Wouldn't you agree? We should be on offset now .. her lack of effort is the reason we're not.
 
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No, I didn't make it up. This is what your order says, according to you:

"The Respondent must obtain and is currently seeking employment. Once the Respondent is employed full time for over 30 days, she shall provide the Applicant of her income, and the child support will be modified using the offset method".

There's no timeframe for Mom to find a full time job in your order as currently written, which makes the "must obtain" part meaningless. She could spend the next 18 years "seeking work" with you continuing to pay the full table amount. I'm not making things up - you signed a lousy agreement. If you get a specific deadline for when CS switches to offset, you will be in better shape. At the moment, Mom isn't violating anything she signed.
 
I'm waffling between getting 1 order (impute income and correct CS Order) and merely getting the wording changed of the CS Order and then going back to court again with another application 6 months later).

Changing wording for Order on consent can be a real time wasting back and forth process. You would have to deal with Legal Aid again and you were quite intimidated with them before. I have visions of Legal Aid stalling this out for a very long time.
 
My sense is that it would be better to do it in steps - first, seek to have a "sunset clause" in the order saying that CS switches to offset on (say) January 1 2017. Then if Mom is still unemployed/underemployed (or hasn't provided income information for offset calculations), pursue the income imputation route. I would offer a few months advance notice for Mom to anticipate the change and prepare for it. This makes Dad seem reasonable, rather than just changing his mind about a final order he signed not too long ago.

I wouldn't expect any judge to order Mom to have a full-time job - this would entail ordering someone to hire her full time, which is beyond the power of a judge. But setting a date for a switch to offset is something that could reasonably be done.
 
That makes sense. I'm pretty sure the family court judges are well aware of the changes coming February 2nd.
 
I think you should find a poorer girlfriend to support, barefoot and destitute - bring her to court and explain to the judge you have to support her...
 
Even if he gets an offset amount, his ex will be fine financially.

Currently she gets $681 welfare - and then + his child support payment of $300 due to clawback = $681

Income imputed $20,000.

$681 welfare + $155 offset CS = $836

I think she has nothing to worry about.
 
No, I didn't make it up. This is what your order says, according to you:

"The Respondent must obtain and is currently seeking employment. Once the Respondent is employed full time for over 30 days, she shall provide the Applicant of her income, and the child support will be modified using the offset method".

Yes..she "must" obtain. Once she's empolyed full time for over 30 days she shall provide me with income and we move to offset.

You inserted "if"/when she finds employment. Our agreement doesn't state "if" at all. "If" doesn't really imply intent to find employment. That's what I was referring to regarding making up imaginary words in my agreement. Please don't.

There's no timeframe for Mom to find a full time job in your order as currently written, which makes the "must obtain" part meaningless.
So I'll get a timeframe if nothing else. We now are cognizant she signed an agreement to get a job in bad faith. So we'll fix it.
I'm not making things up - you signed a lousy agreement.
You call the agreement lousy, but I achieved 50/50 and a bunch of stuff I wanted and fought for over 2 years. Only this last thing to be fixed.
Luckily Motions to change exist for a reason. FLIC and a few lawyers told me the acceptable amount of time to wait to change an order is 6-7 months. When I described my situation they directed me to get in to court and have it fixed....that this one's a no-brainer for any judge.

She could spend the next 18 years "seeking work" with you continuing to pay the full table amount.
Pigs could fly too. Thanks for your input. lol
 
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This makes Dad seem reasonable, rather than just changing his mind about a final order he signed not too long ago.
Mom was the one who changed her mind and decided not to work. I guess she didn't like the agreement. Yes I have an issue with her not liking the agreement..the judge most likely will also.

"Must" obtain employment does not mean "maybe", "might", or "if".
 
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Last time I checked Welfare wasn't an 18 year free money binge. Espcially for somebody with education, blingualism, skillsets and much experience in the workfield.

The Welfare act specifically states that:
Ontario Works Act, 1997
(a) purpose of Act
[35] The essential purpose of the Ontario Works Act, 1997, S.O. 1997, Chapter 25, Schedule A (“Act”) is to provide “temporary financial assistance to those most in need while they satisfy obligations to become and stay employed:” see Act, s. 1
Seems fairly straight forward to me.
 
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My partner was unemployed when his order was signed. It had a clause in his too about looking for work, advising when work was found and then adjusting cs payable. He never thought to stay unemployed and there was nothing in his order that said he would be punished. His lawyer told us that his ex could have brought a motion for support during the time he was unemployed (that ended last fall) and in that motion could have demanded that he have an income imputed to him. So even though they had an order on consent, they had agreed to all of it, he had found work and then lost work, she still would have been within her rights to file that motion. Also add that their agreement has that "if either party disagrees with a variable term of this agreement they are to use the dispute resolution clause..." His lawyer said it doesnt matter about the mediation clause or the updated income, if his ex wanted to update cs she could file the motion for support.

Now that I think about all this and the clause as you outlined, I wonder if you could file a motion for support and request an imputed income?

Have you thought about speaking to a lawyer who is good? Might be worth the $300 just for the advice!
 
My partner was unemployed when his order was signed. It had a clause in his too about looking for work, advising when work was found and then adjusting cs payable. He never thought to stay unemployed and there was nothing in his order that said he would be punished. His lawyer told us that his ex could have brought a motion for support during the time he was unemployed (that ended last fall) and in that motion could have demanded that he have an income imputed to him. So even though they had an order on consent, they had agreed to all of it, he had found work and then lost work, she still would have been within her rights to file that motion. Also add that their agreement has that "if either party disagrees with a variable term of this agreement they are to use the dispute resolution clause..." His lawyer said it doesnt matter about the mediation clause or the updated income, if his ex wanted to update cs she could file the motion for support.

Now that I think about all this and the clause as you outlined, I wonder if you could file a motion for support and request an imputed income?

Have you thought about speaking to a lawyer who is good? Might be worth the $300 just for the advice!
That was my thought. Much of the cases I've read, if Parent A remained on Welfare, the judges got fed up and imputed to minimum wage. Using offset I would be paying her $150/month instead, saving a bunch of money. Minimum wage will be 11.40/hour soon (Oct), which is what I used for the calculations.

Choosing not to work is the wrong choice for her. This would give her a little motivation to be a good role model and be self-sufficient for herself and our child.
 
As long as LF32 does not go to the lousy lawyer he saw before .....

A judge cannot force someone to work. You have to have income imputed. In the end it doesn't matter if she works or not.

The longer she is on welfare, and unemployed, the easier it is for her to make a case that she is unemployable. Then she would likely go back to school.... and so on.
 
Just popping the paragraph we're arguing over here first for ease of reference. Though it's quoting Stripes, not LF, so not sure it's exact.
"The Respondent must obtain and is currently seeking employment. Once the Respondent is employed full time for over 30 days, she shall provide the Applicant of her income, and the child support will be modified using the offset method".
So this clearly indicates that the judge expected LFEx to be employed soon. The judge also made it possible for the switch to offset to happen soon afterwards, instead of being delayed until annual income disclosure and CS adjustment. Clearly, the expectation was for her to become employed and for CS to promptly switch to offset.

The material change in circumstance is that LFEx has not become employed as anticipated. She is a highly employable individual who is unlikely to be able to prove that she could not find a job of any sort. LF paying full table CS in a 50-50 custody situation is unsustainable, and was clearly never intended to be sustained. But as long as her income being zero means he has to pay more, she has no incentive to do what she said she would do - find a job.

LF needs to ask that A, an income be imputed to her, of roughly what someone of her education and skills could earn, or in the alternative, minimum wage, and B, CS switch to offset immediately, reflecting either her imputed income, or her actual income, should she find a job that pays more.

Forget all the other details about supporting another child, or undue hardship. Don't muddy the issue.

My sense is that it would be better to do it in steps - first, seek to have a "sunset clause" in the order saying that CS switches to offset on (say) January 1 2017. Then if Mom is still unemployed/underemployed (or hasn't provided income information for offset calculations), pursue the income imputation route. I would offer a few months advance notice for Mom to anticipate the change and prepare for it. This makes Dad seem reasonable, rather than just changing his mind about a final order he signed not too long ago.

I wouldn't expect any judge to order Mom to have a full-time job - this would entail ordering someone to hire her full time, which is beyond the power of a judge. But setting a date for a switch to offset is something that could reasonably be done.

Just switching to offset does LF no good; his CS would still be full table because hers is zero. He NEEDS the imputation of income to her as well. By the time a motion is heard, wouldn't it likely be past January anyway?

LFEx is clearly treating his CS money beyond the offset amount like spousal support, not to mention the welfare, so she does not have to work. That is not the intention of CS. Nor welfare, for that matter, but it's not relevant to his motion.

You got your agreement in February or so? So you're at about the six month mark where it is suitable that you bring a motion?

Do you have a mediation clause in your agreement? Don't forget to approach your ex with an offer to settle before bringing her to court. Offer her imputation at minimum wage. If she takes it, her free money drops, giving her more incentive to actually find a good job, hopefully one better than minimum wage.
 
Quoting LF:

24. The mother is currently seeking employment. Once she is employed full time for over 30 days she shall provide the father with evidence of her income, and the CS shall be modified using the offset approach.

Based on this it only indicates ex is trying to find work, not must obtain it. If it said "must obtain" then wait the six month and impute as ex didn't do what ex must do. Seeking employment however may require many steps before full time work is achieved (school, volunteer, internship, co-op, part-time, etc). Plus health, family, or other reasonable issues may prevent full time employment. Doesn't mean he still can't impute, but he would have to wait a lot longer before going to court.
 
I agree with Rioe completely. I like the offer to settle before court as well which might save you much money and time.
 
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