Paying Full Table CS with 50/50 Shared Parenting

This is totally unrelated to this thread but I thought Id post anyways for some input.

Yesterday ex called me and asked if I wanted to take D4 to the "Aladdin" play at her school (on her parenting time) ... Of course I jumped at the opportunity.

D4 then told me "mommy is having a man over to check all her furniture, toilets, beds, etc to make sure they're okay in case a tornado comes".

I know I know .. she's 4 .. which is why it could mean anything. But still curious about your thoughts? i.e - boyfriend? ministry of education checking if her daycare is safe? CAS?

Just found it strange.
 
Paying Full Table CS with 50/50 Shared Parenting

I have a feeling the judge put it in for two reasons:

A) to set a date for when it was ordered

B) to provide you with back up for imputing her income

Think about it, most stay at home moms with ss and cs can milk it until the kids are in school and parents can work full time. Your order shows that kid should be in school and she should be working. I think having this in the order provides you with the ability for a future motion to show that she knew she had to do it. I also dont think you need to wait two years. If you can, you should look into imputing an income after the one year mark of the order. To me giving her a year is reasonable. Especially when youre available during full days in the summer to provide her with extra care if necessary. I hate to say this but if it was a man who was sitting on his ass you KNOW the courts would impute it. That judge gave you an ace.

Again, just my two cents...
 
The order also states that we were to find daycare while looking for school so that she could seek employment.

so yes I think you're all right about that.
 
Ex pulled me aside this morning at drop and asked about CS for this month. I let her know that it came out of my account on the 16th, like every month. She said she didn't receive it and is calling FRO today. All I know is my account feels the crunch.

Sooo .. I guess this means there's no Welfare? No clawback? Interesting
 
LovingFather32 said:
Ex pulled me aside this morning at drop and asked about CS for this month. I let her know that it came out of my account on the 16th, like every month. She said she didn't receive it and is calling FRO today. All I know is my account feels the crunch.

Sooo .. I guess this means there's no Welfare? No clawback? Interesting
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I would say if it just came out on the 16th, she would receive it today or tomorrow but she can go to FRO. As for claw back... from what I know of welfare, it is reported at the end of the month (maybe mid month) for the following month. If she is still on welfare, they will adjust her payment they make to her, not actually take the CS from FRO.

She obviously still hasn't found a job.
 
Well then shes going to learn the hard way that she needs to find a freaking job. When she says anything else you say politely "I deal with FRO, feel free to contact them if you have issues." And leave it at that.
 
rockscan said:
Well then shes going to learn the hard way that she needs to find a freaking job. When she says anything else you say politely "I deal with FRO, feel free to contact them if you have issues." And leave it at that.
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Excellent advice. You deal with FRO for a reason. So you don't have to deal with the other parent regarding the matter. I would follow Rockscan's advice in the future.
 
I was sifting through some caselaw and came across some CS stuff that may be of assistance.

(2.1) POWERS OF COURT: CHILD SUPPORT – In the case of an order for support of a child, if the court is satisfied that there has been a change in circumstances within the meaning of the child support guidelines or that evidence not available on the previous hearing has become available, the court may,

(a) discharge, vary or suspend a term of the order, prospectively or retroactively;
(b) relieve the respondent from the payment of part or all of the arrears or any interest due on them; and
(c) make any other order for the support of a child that the court could make on an application under section 33.


(2) Child Support Guidelines (Ontario)

15. DETERMINATION OF ANNUAL INCOME

(1) Subject to subsection (2), a parent’s or spouse’s annual income is determined by the court in accordance with sections 16 to 20.

16. CALCULATION OF ANNUAL INCOME – Subject to sections 17 to 20, a parent’s or spouse’s annual income is determined using the sources of income set out under the heading “Total income” in the T1 General form issued by the Canada Revenue Agency and is adjusted in accordance with Schedule III.

17. PATTERN OF INCOME

(1) If the court is of the opinion that the determination of a parent’s or spouse’s annual income under section 16 would not be the fairest determination of that income, the court may have regard to the parent’s or spouse’s income over the last three years and determine an amount that is fair and reasonable in light of any pattern of income, fluctuation in income or receipt of a non-recurring amount during those years.

19. IMPUTING INCOME

(1) The court may impute such amount of income to a parent or spouse as it considers appropriate in the circumstances, which circumstances include the following:

(a) the parent or spouse is intentionally under-employed, other than where the under-employment or unemployment is required by the needs of any child or by the reasonable educational or health needs of the parent or spouse;
…

(d) it appears that income has been diverted which would affect the level of child support to be determined under these guidelines;
…

(f) the parent or spouse has failed to provide income information when under a legal obligation to do so;http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/do...nQgc2hhcmVkIHBhcmVudGluZwAAAAAB&resultIndex=2
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Quick question regarding NOA's/Tax Stuff

My ex just gave me her's and it states that she made $3,319 total income, which would only work out to around $270/month. That's everything for 2015.

The reality is that she rakes in around $600 from welfare + $600 child tax benefits + a portion of the child support (clawed back from Welfare)..I'm guessing over $200.

This places her at around $1,400/Month.

She pays $110/month rent and NO utilities...guess it pays to pretend you've been abused.

On paper...that's $270 VS. $1,400. That's a difference of $1,130.

She has far more money to play around with each month than most I know.

Is her financial lifestyle really that misrepresented and jaded on paper compared to her actual standard of living? Her tax forms make it seem like she's a pauper begging in the street when really she's in Red Lobster 3 evening/week taking advantage of all of her benefits.

I'm a 50/50 parent (well over the 40% as per Section 9 of the CSG's) and I have a great case for material changes of circumstances to vary the CS order. I was just curious about this $3,319 she claimed as her total income .. guess Im a tad confused how it's even calculated if CS and Welfare arn't taxable.

Thank in advance,

LF32
 
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what is the source of the 3,319.00? Is that employment income or spousal support?

What will become relative is the budgets/financial statement the two of you will have to submit. On Form 13 (Financial Statement) take a look at the "Income Source" and you will see she will have to indicate everything from Social assistance income to child tax benefits/tax rebates. Then you go to the Expenses part where she will indicate her rent, utilities, cell phone, groceries, meals outside the home, etc. Finally go to page (7) to Other Income Earners in the Home - this is where you put in info about your spouse, assuming you are claiming "undue hardship" - If you are not then you do not need to complete it.

The Financial Statements should disclose where the 3,319.00 comes from.
 
arabian said:
what is the source of the 3,319.00? Is that employment income or spousal support?

What will become relative is the budgets/financial statement the two of you will have to submit. On Form 13 (Financial Statement) take a look at the "Income Source" and you will see she will have to indicate everything from Social assistance income to child tax benefits/tax rebates. Then you go to the Expenses part where she will indicate her rent, utilities, cell phone, groceries, meals outside the home, etc. Finally go to page (7) to Other Income Earners in the Home - this is where you put in info about your spouse, assuming you are claiming "undue hardship" - If you are not then you do not need to complete it.

The Financial Statements should disclose where the 3,319.00 comes from.
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I don't pay any Spousal. I think when filing taxes, welfare recipients must insert on line 236 what they made even though it's still non-taxable income. I just cant get over so much is non taxable.

There's such a huge discrepancy between how our gov't perceives her standard of living .. and her actual lavish standard of living.

Yep, I'm getting all of my info from her previous Form 13 Arabian, and her current NOA (for the amount)

Her rent = $110 ; Her utilities = 0 ; Cell phone = $90. Of course groceries and stuff. Still that QC "Caisse Populaire" bank account with a big "?" for "amount".

I definitely won't see her FORM 13 until I get to court (to see how that $3,319 was calculated). It's just interesting to me how the world thinks she's suffering (on paper) when she's actually doing better financially than most.
 
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I believe Welfare encourages people to find employment and they are allowed a certain amount before the benefits are clawed back. Perhaps she is claiming babysitting income?

Your ex possibly receives more money because she initially claimed to be a victim of violence? You can probably go on line and see what the standard monthly benefit for an adult with one child.
 
arabian said:
I believe Welfare encourages people to find employment and they are allowed a certain amount before the benefits are clawed back. Perhaps she is claiming babysitting income?

Your ex possibly receives more money because she initially claimed to be a victim of violence? You can probably go on line and see what the standard monthly benefit for an adult with one child.
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Could be. If only Welfare was there when she apologized for all of the false allegations in front of everyone.
I do know she babysits 3-4 kids at a time..sometimes more (I see it at pickup's/drop off's. She also has 2 car seats in her car). But I'm certain she does that stuff under the table.
 
LovingFather32 said:
Could be. If only Welfare was there when she apologized for all of the false allegations in front of everyone.
I do know she babysits 3-4 kids at a time..sometimes more (I see it at pickup's/drop off's. She also has 2 car seats in her car). But I'm certain she does that stuff under the table.
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My ex run a daycare at home and very often, she will negotiate with the parents to provide receipts only for the portion that the parent can declare. The rest is under the table.
 
Check out this recent case:

" Contrary to the submissions of Ms. Mullins’ counsel, the Benefits are required to be recorded as a source of income under the heading “Total income” in the T1 General form issued by the Canada Revenue Agency (“CRA”). The Benefits fall within the category referred to on Line 145 as “Social Assistance”. Since the Benefits are not taxable, on Line 250 they may be recorded again and, as a result, removed back out of one’s “Taxable Income”. The fact remains, however, that Ms. Mullins’ annual income for section 7 expense purposes is to be “determined using” all the Benefits amounts, because they are to be recorded as a source of income under the heading “Total income” in CRA’s T1 General form, subject to any adjustment in accordance with Schedule III."

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abqb/d...c3Npc3RhbnQgcmVjaXBpZW50AAAAAAE&resultIndex=1
 
The whole child support thing is a mystery to me.

It seems to me that there should be an adjustment to the amount of child support to reflect shared custody should there not?

Isn't there a change recently where people on welfare no longer have claw-back on their child support? That, in itself, should be a change of circumstances should it not?

So in this situation LF32's ex receives welfare from provincial government, child support and monthly "baby bonus" from the federal government. Wow - I can see why people don't want to go to work.
 
arabian said:
The whole child support thing is a mystery to me.

It seems to me that there should be an adjustment to the amount of child support to reflect shared custody should there not?
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LF's trouble is that he AGREED to the CS amount. It will be hard for him to change it. Can't blame the courts for his bad decision.

I believe he is also paying for CS arrears as well.

And ultimately, that $150 he would save in CS would affect both their budgets I guess.
 
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