OMG the Lawyer's Fees!

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Rioe

Rioe

Well-known member
I just got my first bill from my lawyer and OUCH! I had no idea things were racking up like that because last time I asked him how my retainer was doing, he said fine, and now it's all run out and I still owe him a ton and we're not even done yet! He charged me $9 to read an email I sent him informing him that I was unable to attend an upcoming appointment! Makes me wonder what the heck I would have been charged had I simply not shown up...

I've worked so hard behind the scenes on my financial statement, triple checking that everything is right and organized and presented it to him ready to go, and I get charged for the couple of hours it took him to redo all my calculations to make sure they were right! And I've seen him at his computer during appointments and it's agonizing how slow he is. He seems knowledgeable, quick to understand my viewpoints, sensible at getting me up to speed and experienced at divorces, but it's torture watching him hunt and peck on his keyboard. I thought I was reducing reliance on him by doing as much of it myself as I could but if he's just going to redo it anyway at a snail's pace, what's the point?

I tell you, I'm in the wrong business...
 
I know exactly what you mean. I got rid of my lawyer after paying her a total of $10,000.00 to get nowhere. I have been representing myself now for almost a year. The divorce is still moving slowly but at least I am not paying ridiculous lawyer fees. I started to resent my lawyer as I felt she was using me to pay for her nice car and expensive holidays. I certainly did not feel she had my best interests in mind. I would do three hours of work, she would do next to nothing and then charge me several hundred dollars. I was so glad to say goodbye to her. More and more people are chosing self representation- especially in Quebec.
 
As much as possible try to go through the secretary to check on simple stuff like has something been received, when is something due, etc.

When you do your financials (too late now) insist that they be left as is and if the other party disputes anything you will consider corrections. As long as you are sure the numbers are sound and you have statements attached. What on earth did the lawyer actually change to cost that much? Some offices want to enter the numbers into software and print out a typed version, which I kind of understand but it should not cost anywhere near that much. My ex kept turning in messed up scrawl in her own handwriting, including to court, and believe me the numbers didn't add up.

Make a strict instruction to your lawyer that no work is to be done or steps taken without your approval. Don't do things piecemeal, call the receptionist at the start of the month, make an appointment for a phone consultation. That avoids being charged for phone-tag. Have a list in front of you and keep an eye on the egg timer you will have by the phone. Control the agenda, this is your agenda, you have the topics written out, deal with them one-by-one, don't get distracted, find out what the next steps are, ask the time and cost, approve them if you think it is reasonable. Do this each month and get the amount of work done you can afford. Unfortunately separation/divorce can drag out for months and years, but at least this means you can spread out your costs monthly.

Treat your lawyer like a contractor doing renovations. Don't just point at your house and say "Fix it". Decide what you want done, find out the cost and only approve the amount of work you want done.
 
Mess said:
Treat your lawyer like a contractor doing renovations. Don't just point at your house and say "Fix it". Decide what you want done, find out the cost and only approve the amount of work you want done.
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Mess you always give good advice. And you do it in a very catchy, useful and relevant way.
 
When you get enough "Mess-isms" put together, you should. Hell if that dude on twitter "SH*t my dad says" can get a book deal, I'm sure you could. :D
 
Mess said:
As much as possible try to go through the secretary to check on simple stuff like has something been received, when is something due, etc.

When you do your financials (too late now) insist that they be left as is and if the other party disputes anything you will consider corrections. As long as you are sure the numbers are sound and you have statements attached. What on earth did the lawyer actually change to cost that much? Some offices want to enter the numbers into software and print out a typed version, which I kind of understand but it should not cost anywhere near that much. My ex kept turning in messed up scrawl in her own handwriting, including to court, and believe me the numbers didn't add up.

Make a strict instruction to your lawyer that no work is to be done or steps taken without your approval. Don't do things piecemeal, call the receptionist at the start of the month, make an appointment for a phone consultation. That avoids being charged for phone-tag. Have a list in front of you and keep an eye on the egg timer you will have by the phone. Control the agenda, this is your agenda, you have the topics written out, deal with them one-by-one, don't get distracted, find out what the next steps are, ask the time and cost, approve them if you think it is reasonable. Do this each month and get the amount of work done you can afford. Unfortunately separation/divorce can drag out for months and years, but at least this means you can spread out your costs monthly.

Treat your lawyer like a contractor doing renovations. Don't just point at your house and say "Fix it". Decide what you want done, find out the cost and only approve the amount of work you want done.
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If the ex has a lawyer and you are a self rep;

As much as possible try to go through their lawyer to check on simple stuff like has something been received, when is something due, etc.

When you do your financials (too late now) insist that they can be changed as much as they like and if the other party disputes anything you will consider corrections. As long as you are unsure of the numbers and you have statements somewhere. Who cares "What on earth did the lawyer actually change to cost that much?" Some offices want to enter the numbers into software and print out a typed version, which I kind of understand but it should not cost anywhere near that much so just in case, ask them to do it again. Me, I kept turning in messed up scrawl in my own handwriting, including to court, and believe me the numbers didn't add up:)

Make a strict instruction to their lawyer that no work is to be done or steps taken without your approval. Do things piecemeal, call the lawyer at the start of every month, don't make an appointment for a phone consultation. That avoids being charged for phone-tag. Have a list in front of you and keep an eye on the egg timer you will have by the phone, ask about the lawyers children, talk about the weather, etc. Control the agenda, this is your agenda, you have the topics written out, deal with them one-by-one, don't get distracted, find out what the next steps are, ask the time and cost, approve them if you think it is reasonable. Do this each month and get as little the amount of work done they can't afford. Fortunately separation/divorce can drag out for months and years, but at least this means you can spread out their costs monthly.

Treat their lawyer like a Roman Catholic Priest raping your children's future. Don't just point at their house and say "Hail Mary". Decide that you want equality.....
 
I would definitely buy your book. Let me know when it comes out Mess. :)

But in respect to the lawyers fees. I would agree with others who have already posted. Try and do as much as you can by yourself in respect to any paperwork and even researching relevant cases. You might also want to pick and choose when you want your lawyer to appear on your behalf. For example, you might consider self representing at a case conference if there is no agreement on consent. The cost of legal fees sky rockets with each court appearance. I've been self representing on some issues and using the lawyer on the more critical stuff.

Nadia
 
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Very funny SillyMe.

Too bad it's true that vindictive assholes will do that if only because they are carrying a huge cross. Even more too bad that the kids suffer while tension and expense mounts.
 
Nadia said:
But in respect to the lawyers fees. I would agree with others who have already posted. Try and do as much as you can by yourself in respect to any paperwork and even researching relevant cases. You might also want to pick and choose when you want your lawyer to appear on your behalf. For example, you might consider self representing at a case conference if there is no agreement on consent. The cost of legal fees sky rockets with each court appearance. I've been self representing on some issues and using the lawyer on the more critical stuff.
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I imagine lawyers will advise against being excluded from parts of the process, but I'll keep that in mind! At this point I'm still hopeful we can keep out of court entirely, as the ex and I are currently in agreement about the ideas, if not the legal wording (at least until his lawyer starts arguing, I suppose).

There's a few unusual aspects of our case that make it fit poorly with existing family law, and when I poured out the whole story to the lawyer originally, his eyes kind of lit up at the chance to handle a precedent-setter in court. Needless to say, I will not be financing his chance to get famous in family law circles.

Anyways, I'm coping with the 'sticker shock' aspect of seeing all these ridiculous charges, and will be using all your advice to minimize it from here on in! Crazy to think that any other profession considers much of these items the cost of doing business and absorbs it themselves, and yet law offices can get away with billing for it. And any other profession, you see the costs up front instead of just putting down a mysterious 'retainer' fee.

Thanks!
 
If you retain a lawyer, right from the get go purchase a book to keep a log of appointments, letters, court documents with a lawyer. Also keep all documents, i.e. letters, emails, phone calls and compare IMMEDIATELY when you receive their bill.

Stay away from the emotional side of your divorce, lawyers dont want to hear it and trust me, they dont care!!

Try to get to a case conference as soon as possible, negotiations ONLY make lawyers rich. Unless you and your ex are completely amicable, you will be broke in no time!

Find a lawyer who is well experienced. Lawyers with 5 years experience and under are still cutting their teeth and will cut into your pocket book to prove they are working for the firm.

Take care
 
Personally, I think lawyers should be capped according to the type of law they are practicing. For instance if they are practicing family law there should be an allotted fee for them to complete documents, i.e. case conference brief, orders, financial statements, motions, emails etc. The fees that your "average" person is incurring from lawyers today in unlike any other profession can charge in our society.

Something needs to be done! We all work hard for our money and heaven forbid we should incur a divorce. In a matter of months we can find 50% of our equity going to the lawyers. The other 50% is split between the ex's.
Sad state of affairs!!!!
 
Looking4Answers said:
Personally, I think lawyers should be capped according to the type of law they are practicing. For instance if they are practicing family law there should be an allotted fee for them to complete documents, i.e. case conference brief, orders, financial statements, motions, emails etc. The fees that your "average" person is incurring from lawyers today in unlike any other profession can charge in our society.

Something needs to be done! We all work hard for our money and heaven forbid we should incur a divorce. In a matter of months we can find 50% of our equity going to the lawyers. The other 50% is split between the ex's.
Sad state of affairs!!!!
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I thought that was what this forum, in part, was for...I am not, have not, and hopefully will not ever go through a divorce...but I know how to do the forms, and offer assistance and opinions to those who post...
 
I have paid for one BMW and one Mercedes. Am working on paying off the Honda the assistant drives. Too bad I did not have a choice in the color or model of any of them. But my lawyers have been happy. My first lawyer no longer drives the BMW i paid for. Someone else paid for her new Acura. My current lawyer is happy with her Mercedes, but I think she will be trading it in soon since I got my last bill from her.
 
Looking4Answers said:
Something needs to be done! We all work hard for our money and heaven forbid we should incur a divorce. In a matter of months we can find 50% of our equity going to the lawyers. The other 50% is split between the ex's.
Sad state of affairs!!!!
Click to expand...
The solution is actually a hell of a lot easier than we may suspect.

First, the government has to stop declaring people married without their consent.
Second, if you still want the government groping in your private lives, the responsible way of doing it is to have the government require that every single marriage license be accompanied with a prenuptual agreement that spells out as much as possible how a dissolution of the marriage would be handled.

Unfortunately, none of that will happen because it essentially is an expectation to have civil servants decide how many of their own parasitic jobs will be cut.




By the way, as much as I have disdain for the legal profession, I would suggest that you stop looking at the amount of the fees you paid and associate that with the purchase of their new luxury car, boat, vacation, whatever.... that is not smart. Your fees are not their profit. You have no idea what the over-head costs are in operating a law practice. Most of the reason for the high cost of professional services is a result of institutionalized market forces that the single professional can not control.

In other words, even if a lawyer wanted to charge low fees, it would be impossible for him to survive financially.
 
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