Offer to settle questions

[HonestHelp]

Hi all,

I have some questions about the offer to settle for child support and custody of my 1 year old daughter.


1) In the offer to settle can I include these clause for post secondary education below or would this be too early as the child is only 1 year old?

- Cs is only payable after age 18 if the child is in a full time program of study with records of enrollment provided by sept 15 and jan 15 of each term.
- Cs for a child living away from home will be set at summer only support.
- School expenses are as follows: tuition books and residence (if applicable). No other expenses will be included unless otherwise agreed to by both parties in writing in advance.
- The child will contribute 1/3 the total school expenses. The remaining net expenses will be calculated proportionate to income.

2) If I am requesting parenting time ( 4 days a week for 2 hours each day between 4-6pm)and for any reason unable to exercise my parenting/access time what could the consequences be (I work irregular shifts) ? Can the mother request the courts to force me to exercise
my parenting time or are there any fines/penalties?

 

[rockscan]

Hi all,

I have some questions about the offer to settle for child support and custody of my 1 year old daughter.


1) In the offer to settle can I include these clause for post secondary education below or would this be too early as the child is only 1 year old?

- Cs is only payable after age 18 if the child is in a full time program of study with records of enrollment provided by sept 15 and jan 15 of each term.
- Cs for a child living away from home will be set at summer only support.
- School expenses are as follows: tuition books and residence (if applicable). No other expenses will be included unless otherwise agreed to by both parties in writing in advance.
- The child will contribute 1/3 the total school expenses. The remaining net expenses will be calculated proportionate to income.

It’s never too early. Add in meal plan with residence.

2) If I am requesting parenting time ( 4 days a week for 2 hours each day between 4-6pm)and for any reason unable to exercise my parenting/access time what could the consequences be (I work irregular shifts) ? Can the mother request the courts to force me to exercise
my parenting time or are there any fines/penalties?

Why wouldn’t you request time that works? Like every other weekend and a few nights a week? If you need daycare for the time you are working then it is a section 7 expense. The ex can’t force you to exercise your parenting time but if you aren’t able to see your child then they could argue for full custody.


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[HonestHelp]

It�s never too early. Add in meal plan with residence.



Why wouldn�t you request time that works? Like every other weekend and a few nights a week? If you need daycare for the time you are working then it is a section 7 expense. The ex can�t force you to exercise your parenting time but if you aren�t able to see your child then they could argue for full custody.


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So I've hired a lawyer on a limited scope, as I have limited funds , to represent me for my upcoming case conference. I asked the lawyer to add those clause lines about post secondary education in the offer to settle and his response was "Yes we could add the clauses about post secondary education but it's a long time away and this matter is likely to go back to court at that time. It's too early to anticipate what may happen in 17 years from now.I would recommend leaving it for now and re-examining it 15-17 years later through a motion to change if necessary."

I will have to think of a schedule that may work better with my shift schedule.

 

[HonestHelp]

In my opinion it sounds like my lawyer is just trying to avoid adding that post-secondary education clause so that i'll have to go to court again in the future to waste more resources on.

 

[Janus]

1) In the offer to settle can I include these clause for post secondary education below or would this be too early as the child is only 1 year old?

You can include anything you want in an offer to settle. However, I would make this clause severable, so that it does not tank your entire offer to settle.

2) If I am requesting parenting time ( 4 days a week for 2 hours each day between 4-6pm)and for any reason unable to exercise my parenting/access time what could the consequences be (I work irregular shifts) ? Can the mother request the courts to force me to exercise
my parenting time or are there any fines/penalties?

1. Why are you not asking for 50%?
2. Many parents work during their parenting time, that is why child care exists
3. No, there are no consequences for not using your parenting time, except that the mother can go to court eventually and reduce your parenting time.
4. If the mother died tomorrow, how would you take care of the kid?
5. Convicted criminals get more than 8 hours of parenting time a week (once they are no longer in jail of course).

 

[HonestHelp]

You can include anything you want in an offer to settle. However, I would make this clause severable, so that it does not tank your entire offer to settle.




1. Why are you not asking for 50%?
2. Many parents work during their parenting time, that is why child care exists
3. No, there are no consequences for not using your parenting time, except that the mother can go to court eventually and reduce your parenting time.
4. If the mother died tomorrow, how would you take care of the kid?
5. Convicted criminals get more than 8 hours of parenting time a week (once they are no longer in jail of course).

1. The mother is claiming physical abuse during the relationship which is untrue( no police involved and have no criminal record ).
I asked my lawyer if I could get at least 40% access and he said that may not be possible now but he suggested a gradual increase in parenting time.
1st stage is 4 months with 8 hours parenting time
2nd stage is another 4 months with 16 hours parenting time
3rd stage another 4 months with 18 hours parenting time
Final stage (4 months) 36 hours parenting time which includes saturday-sunday from 9am-9am

Some background info on this:
I was in a short relationship with the mother and found out months later that she was pregnant. When the child was born i requested a DNA test but mother refused. Mother filed court application for CS/ full custody and primary residency with only supervised access 2 hourly weekly for me.
We received the DNA results recently.

 

[paco]

I would leave the post-secondary clauses in place, even if you don't need them down the road it doesn't hurt anyway.

Regarding your parenting time, make sure you have half the time with your daughter, you don't want to be caught in a situation that your ex will ask for more time or even worse full custody, also you need joint decision making too.

I would add a clause about retaining a parenting coordinator in case things gets nasty and you guys start fighting over the child (this happens often when one parent alienate the child against the other parent). You'll save lots of headache by having a parenting coordinator in place so you don't have to go back to court.

I would put some clauses regarding parenting covenants, these again helps down the road if things gets nasty, I can help you with these clauses if you pm me.

You need clauses for medical care, emergencies, mobility, regular and urgent communication, extra curricular activities and special and extraordinary expenses, child's documentation and possessions.

Most importantly, if one of the parties breaches the parenting time provisions the other party can go back to court for resolution without the need for a motion to change. Make sure this offer to settle is signed by a judge, so will become a Court Order. Pm me if you need more advice, it seems that lawyer doesn't know his job pretty well.

 

[HonestHelp]

I would leave the post-secondary clauses in place, even if you don't need them down the road it doesn't hurt anyway.

Regarding your parenting time, make sure you have half the time with your daughter, you don't want to be caught in a situation that your ex will ask for more time or even worse full custody, also you need joint decision making too.

I would add a clause about retaining a parenting coordinator in case things gets nasty and you guys start fighting over the child (this happens often when one parent alienate the child against the other parent). You'll save lots of headache by having a parenting coordinator in place so you don't have to go back to court.

I would put some clauses regarding parenting covenants, these again helps down the road if things gets nasty, I can help you with these clauses if you pm me.

You need clauses for medical care, emergencies, mobility, regular and urgent communication, extra curricular activities and special and extraordinary expenses, child's documentation and possessions.

Most importantly, if one of the parties breaches the parenting time provisions the other party can go back to court for resolution without the need for a motion to change. Make sure this offer to settle is signed by a judge, so will become a Court Order. Pm me if you need more advice, it seems that lawyer doesn't know his job pretty well.

I Wasn't aware i could add the clauses about mobility, normal/urgent communications or having a parenting coordinator in case things get nasty.

I am requesting joint-custody (decision making) in the offer.

However, this is what the lawyer wrote in the offer so far :

Mother and Father shall share joint decision making of the child,D1 , born --, 2020. Where there is a difference between the parties on major decisions, the mother’s decision shall prevail.

^ Isn't that basically saying mother has full decision making on major decisions?

 

[iona6656]

I Wasn't aware i could add the clauses about mobility, normal/urgent communications or having a parenting coordinator in case things get nasty.

I am requesting joint-custody (decision making) in the offer.

However, this is what the lawyer wrote in the offer so far :

Mother and Father shall share joint decision making of the child,D1 , born --, 2020. Where there is a difference between the parties on major decisions, the mother’s decision shall prevail.

^ Isn't that basically saying mother has full decision making on major decisions?

that's full custody to mom.

You should definitely seek to add some clauses about mobility.

The minute you start asking about the "40%" mark- people are going to think it's cause you want to reduce or eliminate child support.

Gradual parenting plan increases work imo if the child is small and you and the child need some time to dad adjusting to being a full time parent. But if you are simply trying to get to enough time that you don't have to pay CS- well...

my question is DO you want 50/50? like truly want to parent your daughter 50% of the time. No judgment if you say you don't- I'm just curious.

 

[Janus]

The minute you start asking about the "40%" mark- people are going to think it's cause you want to reduce or eliminate child support.

When people ask for 40% it often is about child support. Of course, when the custodial parent denies 40% it is usually about child support as well.

Gradual parenting plan increases work imo if the child is small and you and the child need some time to dad adjusting to being a full time parent.

Kids have no control over their daily life. Everything is a dramatic and completely unforseen change to them. The idea that a child needs time to "adjust" to the father is ridiculous, and frankly insulting.

my question is DO you want 50/50?

I do not get the impression that he does. Asking if he will get in trouble for skipping the already meagre parenting time that he does have is a bad sign.

 

[iona6656]

Kids have no control over their daily life. Everything is a dramatic and completely unforseen change to them. The idea that a child needs time to "adjust" to the father is ridiculous, and frankly insulting.

Disagree. It's not ridiculous.

I didn't say the child needed time to adjust- I said it could be a process of both parties adjusting. There's a reason that the courts- and many PCs (and I'd bet money child psychologists would be on board)- recommend short gradual visits that increase. I agree that you could theoretically just drop the kid off and leave- I mean- that's what daycare is....BUT even then, many daycares and Montessori's recommend (if possible) that you do a two week adjustment period where the kid goes for a couple hours each morning to get used to the childcare providers. In this case- it doesn't sound like the father has spent much time with the child. This dude sounds like HE needs some adjusting time.

I fail to see the drawback of a graduated parenting plan where one parent has not been the child's primary parent. As long as you get to a reasonable percentage of shared access quickly- who does this hurt?

 

[paco]

iona6656...with all due respect your assertion is ridiculous, highly offensive not only to myself but for dads out there.
This so you called "dude" is at least an equal capable parent as the child's mom to raise their child. The fact that he reached out for help here he seems that he's highly motivated to be active part in his daughter's life, and it's not about the money here, it's about the love for our kids.
The child is a little bit over a year old now and obviously she's over her "adjusting" time with both parents. It is normal for a baby to spend more time with mom in the first year for the obvious reason but after that the child can spend as much as 50/50 with both parents, maximizing the time with both parents is a child right, not a parent right, it's in the CJA. There is absolutely no reason to cut on that unless one of the parents voluntarily wants less time with the child.

Dad, as I mentioned to you I will send you a draft order with all parenting provisions including the parenting covenants for you need to start right, maybe your counsel can learn something from it, one thing is that we never give up on our children.

 

[helenj]

definitely ask for 50/50 parenting time. Worst case scenario they say no. BTW - here is a settlement offer you can use.

 

[paco]

helenj....sorry but there is no other option for 50/50 unless a parent gives up voluntarily on his/her parenting time.
If it is a capable parent there is absolutely no reason for a judge to cut the time with one parent, read the Courts of Justice Act if you're not familiar with it.
If the other party doesn't agree with 50/50 so be it and it will up to the judge to decide, but I can tell everyone and I say it again, a judge will not cut the parenting time just because one party wants more or she/him is "backed" up by false allegations with no factual findings.

If mom is not reasonable with dad in going on 50/50 route (which are most of the cases out there) than she'll find the hard way of doing it, again providing that the parents are both capable and involved parents in their child's life.

 

[Brampton33]

If it is a capable parent there is absolutely no reason for a judge to cut the time with one parent, read the Courts of Justice Act if you're not familiar with it.

I have read the Courts of Justice Act and am not following your reference to that act in relation to your statement.... are you mis-referencing legislation in trying refer to the maximum contact principle under the Divorce Act?

 

[paco]

I have read the Courts of Justice Act and am not following your reference to that act in relation to your statement.... are you mis-referencing legislation in trying refer to the maximum contact principle under the Divorce Act?

I was actually referring to Canada's Divorce Act, not CJA, my mistake.
So according to section 16(10) of Canada’s Divorce Act, when making an order for custody, the court shall give effect to the principle that a child of the marriage should have as much contact with each spouse as is consistent with the best interests of the child and, for that purpose, shall take into consideration the willingness of the person for whom custody is sought to facilitate such contact.

Hope that clarifies your "miss-referencing" concern(s).

 

[iona6656]

iona6656...with all due respect your assertion is ridiculous, highly offensive not only to myself but for dads out there.
This so you called "dude" is at least an equal capable parent as the child's mom to raise their child. The fact that he reached out for help here he seems that he's highly motivated to be active part in his daughter's life, and it's not about the money here, it's about the love for our kids.
The child is a little bit over a year old now and obviously she's over her "adjusting" time with both parents. It is normal for a baby to spend more time with mom in the first year for the obvious reason but after that the child can spend as much as 50/50 with both parents, maximizing the time with both parents is a child right, not a parent right, it's in the CJA. There is absolutely no reason to cut on that unless one of the parents voluntarily wants less time with the child.
.

I think you're misunderstanding my answer. I do not oppose the 50/50...nor was I saying that dads are not capable. What I am saying is that if one parent has been the primary caregiver of a very young child/infant- and the parties agree to move to a different access schedule- be if 50/50 or whatever...my opinion is that a gradual increase (with reasonable intervals) is a good idea and works well. I don't think there is a set way of doing things and the needs of each family will vary...but it does no harm (except maybe to the parent's pride) to commit to gradual parenting increases. I did it in my case- and we skipped over some intervals because D3 was ready for overnights sooner. But her dad actually wanted to delay full weekends with her...no big. He's still going to get the access we agreed to....

 

[Janus]

Disagree. It's not ridiculous.

It is ridiculous. It is a myth that is mostly used as a weapon against fathers.

I didn't say the child needed time to adjust...I agree that you could theoretically just drop the kid off and leave- I mean- that's what daycare is...

That was my first point. Kids do not need adjustment time. Their lives are one chaotic hot mess. Everything is unexpected.

I said it could be a process of both parties adjusting.

It reminds me of when my kids were born. The hospital didn't let us take care of the child until, over the course of a few months, we slowly got acclimatized to the role.

No wait, that didn't happen. It turns out that it is completly unreasonable to keep a child away from its parents until the parent has figured out what they are doing.

There's a reason that the courts- and many PCs (and I'd bet money child psychologists would be on board)- recommend short gradual visits that increase.

The reason is pure misandry.

If we went through Canlii, I would be willing to bet my entire life savings that if we looked at the gender of the parent that needed gradual visits that increase over time, over 80% would be fathers. I would not bet as much, but strongly suspect, that the actual figure would be over 98%.

"Getting used to a parent" is sexist bullshit.

many daycares and Montessori's recommend (if possible) that you do a two week adjustment period where the kid goes for a couple hours each morning to get used to the childcare providers.

I used to work at a camp. The kids didn't care that the parents left, but if the parent was bawling then the kids would certainly follow suit. We would sometimes let the parents bring their kids for partial days, but that was just to make the parents comfortable so would not lose it in front of the kids

The kids did not care. In my years at the camps, I can count on one hand the number of kids that were still crying ten minutes after their parents were out of sight.

In this case- it doesn't sound like the father has spent much time with the child. This dude sounds like HE needs some adjusting time.

Yeah, he's not exactly a great poster child for my cause here.

I fail to see the drawback of a graduated parenting plan where one parent has not been the child's primary parent. As long as you get to a reasonable percentage of shared access quickly- who does this hurt?

The idea that kids need to get used to their father is pernicious, and permeates much of family law. It bolsters the idea that only the parent who has provided the caregiving in the past is qualified to provide the parenting in the future.

If quickly is "within a month", then I'm game. That said, the proper amount is "whatever length of time hospitals give new parents to get used to their kid before discharging them".

Hint: That time is measured in hours to days, not weeks or months.