OCL Request & Dening Access Questions

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MamaDM

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Hello there,

I am representing myself at present and am writing to find out how to file request of OCL involvement properly. As well I need to separately request that the new wife of the ex be dennied access to the children and attending functions school, extra curricular etc. Do you file these as emergency motions or are they a complete Motion to Vary? These issues are not addressed in the current final order which is way out dated.

I thank-you for your time and assistance.
 
Interesting reading yes. I am happy things worked out for you.

How is it the request filed though - emergency motion or motion to vary for paperwork wise? I want to do this up tonight and file and serve tomorrow.
 
As well I need to separately request that the new wife of the ex be denied access to the children and attending functions school, extra curricular etc.
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Unless she is a documented danger to the children, you can't, as long as she is with HIM. If she IS a documented danger, then get an RO against her or involve CAS. (Depending on the situation, as well as where you live.)

You'll potentially have a hell of a time pulling that off in court, so your best bet is to get the ex to agree.
 
Abandoning one of the children at her friends house, whom they don't know without contact numbers or a means of contacting their family when they wish to leave.

daily throwing their shoes out the door into the yard. One child reported their shoes outside in the dog feces covered in bugs during a phone call snuck in while dad and his new wife were not home and they were home alone.

weekly and daily grounding the children and correcting them when it's the parents job - dad or mom to discipline and legally she has no rights to have custody or discipline or legal invovlement with school, medical, dental, etc.

Dad's choosing of the new wife regardless of the children's feelings or wishes being reported. They feel 2nd rate and worthless to dad.

Degrading the youngest as to how "fat" she is.

13 year old left with her sister for extended time alone and always in charge of her sister in favor of their parties and outings.

new spouse taking children out of province

new spouse attending school and excurricular activities, taking responsibilities

children voice their dislike and disinclination to spend time with her on a regular basis. "the crazy lady" "evil step" etc.

these are just a few of the concerns.

She is unfit as is he but that's a different matter all together. I just need to know how to file the paperwork to bring it to the courts and OCL.
 
We have just gone through mediation which failed (I was successful to get the judge to tell him he had to attend despite it being in the agreement already). I will certainly contact his lawyer's office tomorrow to request this. I represent myself. The result I am very sure will be the same as mediation. If things are not his way he is unwilling to bend or deal in any way and states his preferrence to take this to court. (although it's a threat which has been empty for years as he won't initiate anything in court to-date) This is all regardless of what the children have stated even to third parties ie: school officials and friends - which is what I am working from in conjunction to their own reports to myself. Thanks for the reply dadtotheend.
 
MamaDM said:
Abandoning one of the children at her friends house, whom they don't know without contact numbers or a means of contacting their family when they wish to leave.
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This is an unclear description, but I have to remark that there was once an era before cell phones and we all survived without 24/7 access to calling our parents. Presumably they weren't abused while at the friend's house and they were picked up, just not "when they wished"?

daily throwing their shoes out the door into the yard. One child reported their shoes outside in the dog feces covered in bugs
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For no reason? For some reason? Because the kids were tracking mud inside? Yes, maggots are gross, my 6 year old stepped in dog feces and tracked them into the house this summer.
during a phone call snuck in while dad and his new wife were not home and they were home alone.
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A lot of innuendo packed into one phrase. I'm surprised dad doesn't take the phone with him when he goes out. Do you think that 11-12 year olds shouldn't be at home alone?

weekly and daily grounding the children and correcting them when it's the parents job - dad or mom to discipline and legally she has no rights to have custody or discipline or legal invovlement with school, medical, dental, etc.
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You are correct that a step parent has no legal authority beyond that of a baby sitter, but in practice there are many step parents fully involved and integrated into their step children's lives. It's not illegal for the step to be involved in discipline or correction, just as it is not illegal for a school teacher to discipline or correct. Is she beating them? I'm sure you would have mentioned it if she was. As to school, medical, dental etc, it is not illegal for the step parent to be involved, as long as she has the father's consent she can take them to the dentist, doctor, school, make appointments etc. Tens of thousands of families with steps operate this way and the children would suffer if they didn't.

Dad's choosing of the new wife regardless of the children's feelings or wishes being reported. They feel 2nd rate and worthless to dad.
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Dad does not need the children's consent to choose a new wife, nor does he need yours. It sounds like he didn't handle it perfectly, but how many of us do? It's extremely common for children to resent the new relationship, that is human nature and not unique to your ex.

Degrading the youngest as to how "fat" she is.
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I'm not going to defend this, I wasn't there and I doubt you were either. Most would feel degraded at even a mention of weight due to health concerns; how bad it was I don't know.

13 year old left with her sister for extended time alone and always in charge of her sister in favor of their parties and outings.
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This does not consitute any form of abuse. 13 year olds are legally able to babysit and many many families rely on siblings to care for their youngest. It's a pain in the ass for the teen, so is cleaning her room and putting away her laundry.

new spouse taking children out of province
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Nothing illegal about this as long as the father consents.

new spouse attending school and excurricular activities, taking responsibilities
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Nothing wrong with this as long the father consents. Technically the school should require his signature on consent forms, not hers, but he is backing her up. Your issue here would be with the school board policy, but again, many families have step parents who are fully involved with their children.

children voice their dislike and disinclination to spend time with her on a regular basis. "the crazy lady" "evil step" etc.
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This is sad, and I'm not being sarcastic, but it is not abuse. Kid's that age are full of hyperbole like that, you should hear my 13 year old talk about her evil, crazy gym teacher.

these are just a few of the concerns.

She is unfit as is he but that's a different matter all together. I just need to know how to file the paperwork to bring it to the courts and OCL.
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You have that backwards. You don't have a case to take the OCL just because they don't like her, didn't approve of the wedding etc. The matter should be if she is unfit and you have factual evidence of this.

I'm not saying all this to be hard on you, you need to have a better presentation of relevent facts to make your case on. All you are saying is that you don't like her, they don't like her, she is jumping in and acting like a mother. This won't get you an OCL investigation.
 
Thanks for the response Mess. I'm not saying I don't like her. She's the mistress from the marriage. I have known about her for years. No matter. Past caring when I filed years ago. I'm mom first, women last.

My request of the OCL is not based solely on her but him. The request to have her denied accesss comes from these issues which keep being created on an ongoing basis plus dad's unwillingness to address them via mediation, discussion etc based on these involving her. He egotistically thinks I'm jealous and this is the reasoning. Honestly, I don't care about him and her. That's done, gone, over and I've moved on from it. I do care about my kids and their well being.

Communication has always been and continues to be an issue, yet one that has to be overcome. Basic growing up and moving on needs to be done for both sides I would say.

No the children don't like her or approve yet there are other issues for requesting OCL involvement which are all on dad's side including alienation, refussal to cooperate, refusall to listen to the children's opinion, having them read all materials emails court papers etc., telling them inappropriate things...the list is long and I just want someone to address this for the kids legal rights to be protected while mom and dad slug it out.

I have been told though that I can get her denied access by both legal and OPP suggestions. Also that because of our travel permission clause dad needs to have it passed by me first and he failed to do so 3 times this year. I just need to figure out the how to have these and other issues addressed.

I am going to try this case conference thingy though. Worse that can happen is they say no, I keep filing motions. Best case, kids get a win win situation and hopefully before Christmas for them. They are sick of all this as we all are in own respective situations, I'm sure.

Thanks again.
 
The OCL takes on high conflict cases, usually where violence, substance abuse, mental health and/or CAS involvement have been factors.

From what little you describe, it will be a tough sell getting them to take the case.

You should definitely study this:

Ministry of the Attorney General - Intake Form for Custody/Access

I put in a HUGE amount of time and effort completing the intake form to the absolute best of my abilities to maximize the chances that the OCL would take the case. I also went WAY out of my way to be child centred in completing the form. I also added in many extra pages of addendums as the space provided in the forms was insufficient.

I believe all that went a fair distance in having them agree to get involved.

Even after that, my ex didn't complete her intakes forms and the OCL declined to get involved at first. It was only after we went back to court and got another order for her to complete the forms that they agreed to get involved. That added another 3 months to the proceedings. In hindsight it was clear to me that she didn't want them involved because she knew the truth would come out (which it did and it was even worse then I thought), so she tried to stall and delay her way out of it.

Also, be aware that your ex will be able to put up a roadblock to their involvement by not agreeing to having them and/or delaying or simply not completing the intake forms. You will have to be persistent.
 
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Thanks for the link. There is a past history of abuse from the original OCL involvement and part of reasons for divorce. High conflict as OPP have been involved nearly weekly this summer and continues.

I have that form filled out and waiting. Just trying to get to that point so I can send it as soon as it's ordered. I realize he can roadblock and stall - used to that unfortunately. I am not backing down.
 
As mentioned it's going to be a tough sell to involve OCL. None of the items you mentioned will hold up. Some of them are sad in an of themselves, but none are a true safety concern.

Are the children in counseling? It sounds like they may benefit on someone to talk to as well if they are not currently.

If your ex has broken the court order regarding things like travel permissions, etc then you want to focus on a contempt motion as well.

You will have a hell of a time getting the new wife barred from contact, as Dad will likely argue that it will cause issues respective to exercising his access.

Playing devils advocate here for a second....if your ex has half a brain and you try to bring that kind of stuff up, he can quickly turn it around on you. It'll wind up being He said - she said. Hopefully you have more than just heresay to back up your allegations. If things are that bad, have you called CAS? Has the school mentioned anything?
 
I have had the girls in counselling since our first split in 2005. The ex has blocked and refusses to agree to any type of counselling for the children at all.

I haven't tried a contempt order. I guess I should for the multiple issues he has not followed in teh agreement since day one. It all includes contact with me in some way unfortunately. I will look into a motion for that. Hopefully I don't have to address that one issue at a time though.

I have called CAS they won't get involved as we are in court. It's a court issue at this point and needs it addressed via the courts to get their involvement although they question his parenting. That helps the girls in now way.
 
Hi, just to help... be careful about having this turned around on you as well... you dont want to get the appearance of the bitter woman who was cheated on. It is not unusual for one to become jealous (not saying you are) and try to make it so the new woman is not allowed around the children.

this is a reality of separation and if you were keeping your childrens best interests at heart you would be encouraging them to like the new wife regardless of your feelings towards her. you supporting their "hate" towards her is PAS in a way not to mention that she is not going away, help your children be happy with their current situation because you will never get a court order preventing her from seeing them unless she beats them or something (which would be horrible but I assume this is not the case here).

you cant make them like her but by perhaps asking them what they like about her and point out the positive may help. They could be just saying these things because they think it pleases you, you don't know what really goes on there. supporting the tattletaling of a 13 year old of the parenting in the other house is going to set you guys up to get played against one another in a bad way.
 
The CAS is not declining to get involved just because you are in court. What they are refusing to do is get involved in your custody battle.

If the CAS has reason to believe that the children's physcial or emotional safety is at risk, they are required by law to investigate. The existence of a court action is irrelevant when safety is an issue.
 
Thanks so much for the helpful advice. All of this does help.

I think I may have gotten the wrong point across. As I do have concerns over her treatment of my girls, I do of course question her fitness to be in charge of them. However, I am in no way trying to completely ban the new spouse from access to the children. That would be obsurd to attempt as she is their father's wife and living in his home and as such is part of their lives at that house. What I am attempting to do is ban her from being able to go on class trips, extra curricular activities, no rights to decision making etc.

The main reason being that they are playing games with trips. Any info traveling in the school agenda that goes to that house on his weeks doesn't get relayed and on to me. He then railroads her going on trips and I find out after the fact despite always volunteering at the beginning of the year with the teachers for every class trip. I have written the head of the school board and we have devised a future plan of action to help with this situation in conjunction with the one school principal. I have also volunteers for everything with Girl Guides and Brownies etc. It has happened that the new spouse has been railroaded onto trips for Guides instead. That is most unacceptable as I am and always have been fully involved in all my girls activities in school and otherwise. I am available for all trips at any time. I run a home day care and have the luxury of being able to take the time when I need it.

The issue with Girl Guides in my opinion was kinda wonky. As Guides Canada put it, "they paid for the year therefore all info and trips goes to them. It's just policy" They don't take into consideration separated and joint custoday parents? So if you're not paying the full fee, you are not to be involved in the association? I am so sad to have been a Brownie, Guide & Pathfinder now. Even if the parents split the costs they won't release info or allow involvement with both.

This is the issue I am trying to desperately get around. My point to the ex is that if we are left to our own devices and don't involve family, friends etc in all this mess, when we were together, we were able to come to a good outcome. We should be able to do so now. Should but don't, yet I still hold true that just us and the lawyers can hammer this out wonderfully on our own and everyone else can kiss our butts as it's best for our situation and girls. It's not happening. He's not cooperating.

As he puts it....and I quote, "my wife comes before those kids each and every time!" That to me is priorities mixed up but it's his choice. I can't change it and it certainly is a 180 for him. For me the choice is my kids above everything else each and everytime. I just want him to see the light and start cooperating so the girls don't get hurt any more.

As to the issue of CAS, dadtotheend, yes I do realize that. That is the point I have made too as I used to work for FC&S in another county many years ago. However, that is what I was told on the phone by the intake worker. I couldn't stress enough that they had referrals from OPP officers for Supervised Exchange Program to assist with exchanges safely and I was in no way calling to get them involved in court issues but a family in crisis. I just wanted help for this family, even counselling, to assist in finding a better way of dealing with this. Ex won't agree to Pheonix Centre involvement. It was a last ditch resource I was told by free legal councel to follow. I did so and that was the result.
 
If you aren't being informed of school trips/etc that occur, then you need to bring that up with the district. I don't think you can stop the step from volunteering at the school. That alone should show she's trying to be somewhat involved with the children.

That being said...you shouldn't need to rely on the ex to provide you information for things that come home during his weeks. IF you have joint legal custody, the school should be able to put together a copy of any forms going home on his weeks for you to go in and pick up.

That, or discuss with the principal/teachers about maybe emailing you things. OR does the school have a website where this information is posted instead?

Just saying with respect to the school there are options. IF you aren't getting any joy from the principal, contact the district superintendent. Shit rolls downhill, you'll get a LOT faster response by annoying people at the top, particularly if things should have been dealt with at the local level.

I would be pushing the issue with Guides as well. Speak with the troop leader, hand them a copy of your court order and request a separate information packet be compiled for anything going home with the children.

I mean, what happens if there is a trip when the kids are with you? Do they miss it? Are you informed ahead of time?
 
Yes I have addressed this with the board director herself. After a couple years of fighting for the right for the information I had had enough. I had already suggested all of these options and none were being followed. This year new principal and now it's being handled properly and information will start flowing in. I have finally had a parent/teacher meeting, first in two years as they never called me for interviews only spoke when I called and nagged for information. I advised the teacher that all forms are to be signed by both parents which hasn't been happening.

When they are with me, they miss the trip or dad signs the paper and I don't get my child that weekend. All of a sudden I will get a phone call (when there is little to no communications while they are with dad otherwise) out of the blue from my daughter saying "mommy there's this thing tomorrow and I want to go" and dad in the background prompting her on. He does this all the time thinking I won't say no to her and will have to give in. It's an awful game he plays pitting them between us like this. Or I get a sudden note of oh btw she has a guide trip and isn't coming do you still want the other one?" No I want both and to be informed when this stuff is happening instead of being shut out and told about it the eve before by a child who's upset! It's in our agreement that neither parent shall make arrangements for the children during our custody times. Yet he gets away with it.

I have spoken with troop leader, area leader, Ontario division. All came back with the same policy. No they won't accept the agreement. I asked them that. They don't care and it's not up to them to get involved in personal affairs of the families. I guess in other words they are only in it for the money? When I was in it and my mother, it was about the kids and them having fun with friends and family irregardless if they had a nuclear family or otherwise.

I shouldn't have to resort to legal means to get this cooperation and basic respect as their parent and mother. Yet, his response is "see my lawyer" and if I don't agree with him on a matter it's "conduct yourself accordingly or I will take you to court". I'm done playing the nicey nice games. He can talk circles around me with officials. This game gets us no where and he just resorts to throw it to court anyways knowing I can't afford legal fees. So I represent myself, cut the fees and wind up swimming in all of this. But if it helps my girls in the long run, it's worth it right? It did for dadintheend to brave through it all. Koodos on that btw. I just need to figure out the proper way to do things.

A motion to vary the final order had been made, by me. I had it served to his lawyer who returned it via mail to me telling me to server the other party personally. I had it served to him at work. However, I have filed for a case conference today to address all issues which is scheduled for December 9th. Apparently this has to be done before my motion to vary is heard anyways. If it doesn't work we reschedule the motion to vary to be heard in January. I made a back up motion for OCL involvement to be ordered which is to be heard the following week in another court appearance should it not be addressed or ordered in case conference. My girls need the legal protection not to mention results and peace of mind and I'm done with the waiting game.
 
I have just recently receieved my recommendations from the OCL. I will warn you that just because there is conflict does not mean that they are going to change the SQ and give you custody. There was recent abuse in my case and it STILL became a he said/she said situation, resulting in a parallel parenting situation. It is a BIG intrusion into your life, make sure that you really need it.

As for CAS, they have to investigate if they believe there is a legitimate threat of harm to the children. Does anyone else think there is? I am sure that they are a lot more skeptical when the receive a call from one parent reporting the other as opposed to someone not related. If you are honestly worried that they are in danger, report it again. But based on what you have said, I think most of your troubles here are not putting the kids in that kind of danger.
 
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