My ex is stealing my kids clothing!!

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Crap....

All this over a few bucks for clothes?

Remind your ex to try and find and return the clothes on the next visit.

Gently remind every so often.

If you are going to give them a hard time about it... duh... they are likely to give you a hard time back.

I have my kids every other weekend. I buy them clothes because mom is petty and sends them in crap, and I want my kids to have at least a bit of self esteem one day. Should I have to? Absolutely not!

It doesn't cost much, and at the end of the day if it is best for the kids, you do it. Period. You don't have to buy high end. Value Village is my friend, and I am choosy over what I buy. My kids are young and they love it. My ex hates it. Sounds perfect to me :D

And yes, Tayken, if you see this... I am venting here.... and I don't write my affidavits this way ;)
 
Fuming said:
I'm not saying that I agree with it mind you, I'm just saying that the law is ambiguous when it comes to access costs for the NCP. However, if you have material that proves otherwise, I'd love to see it.
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I agree with you. I have asked 2 lawyers and a CAS worker and gotten different answers from each of them. It seems that it is ambiguous enough to leave it up to the interpretation of the person/lawyer/judge.
 
Fuming,
This link will supply all the original notes and drafts that went into the table guidelines. The fellow that produced this site offers a compelling argument for reducing the amounts! child support - draft

Hope this is useful
 
2.0 UNDERLYING PRINCIPLES AND ASSUMPTIONS



In intact families, spending on children is directly related to family income, that is, the means of both parents. The concept of cost of raising children is an illusory theoretical construct. Spending on children is not fixed; it changes as the income of either parent changes. Families with higher incomes spend more on their children than do families of lower income. In the post separation arrangement, the Federal Child Support Guidelines aim to approximate, as closely as possible, the spending on the children that occurred in the pre-separation family. For a full description of the research and analysis conducted to arrive at the model for the formula used in the guidelines, please consult the following Department of Justice Canada publications:
R. Finnie, C. Giliberti, and D. Stripinis, The Construction and Implementation of Child Support Guidelines (Ottawa: Department of Justice Canada, 1993).
R. Finnie, C. Giliberti, and D. Stripinis, An Overview of the Research Program to Develop a Canadian Child Support Formula (Ottawa: Department of Justice Canada, 1995).
The objective of the formula that generates the child support tables is simply to find a means of calculating an amount to be transferred from the paying parent to the receiving parent. This transferred sum should maximise the amount available to be spent on the children while still allowing an adequate reserve for the self support of the paying parent. Several assumptions have been incorporated into the model. First, it is assumed that within the principal residence of the children, the parent and the children will share the same standard of living. A second assumption presumes that if the incomes of the parents are equal, it is fair and equitable that each should contribute equally to the financial support of the children, regardless of the extent of their contribution to the nurturing of the children.


I still don't see where it states the assumption you are reffering to. It does state that each parent should contribute equally. But no where does it state that the CP should pay for everything. Am I missing this paragraph?
 
Look at it this way: if the kids went to visit their grandparents for the weekend, would you send them clothing or expect them to purchase what is needed?

Your ex pays child support in order to simplify things-you can buy the necessities they require. I cannot understand your argument that this does not apply to clothing.

It seems to be common sense yet you need to see a specific clause in legislation?? People here have given you some great suggestions. You can't have your cake and eat it too--if you want him to purchase clothing, reduce the child support and he can meet this expectation.
 
Ugh

Ugh

Can someone please reassure me that when I'm finally done and have a custody arrangement that life won't be this petty and insane?

If I have to start referencing CanLii cases for precedence to determine the potential legal outcome of who should provide a pair of $15 Old Navy jeans for weekend visits, I swear I'm gonna lose my marbles.

Is this really the nonsense I've got to look forward to?

I need a hug.
 
I would love to give you a big hug and let you know that you are not alone in this!!:)

Unfortuneately, this pettiness only ends when one party chooses not to engage in it, with or without an agreement. Best Wishes!
 
book

book

Tayken said:
Hi MommaMouse,

I highly recommend you read the book "Shared Parenting with a Jerk!". Although the title is a bit "rude" the content of the book is incredibly well done.

There are many high-conflict tactics that parents attempt after seperation. The book goes through many of them in detail.

The other parent may think they are being "creative" or the "first person" to have ever done this... But, every trick in the book has been done, has been documented and is common knowledge in the divorce industry.

Specifically, the book I am recommending provides strategies on how to deal with and cope with the "jerky" things other parents may do. As well, it may reveal some of the "jerky" things you are doing that you may not be aware of.

Parenting after separation is not something most parents have ever tooled themselves for. But, they should as the rules of parenting change significantly.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Hey Tayken - any idea where I can get this book? I googled it but nothing comes up. :(

Edit - sorry - found it - it's JOINT custody with a jerk. :)
 
momof6 said:
Look at it this way: if the kids went to visit their grandparents for the weekend, would you send them clothing or expect them to purchase what is needed?

Your ex pays child support in order to simplify things-you can buy the necessities they require. I cannot understand your argument that this does not apply to clothing.

It seems to be common sense yet you need to see a specific clause in legislation?? People here have given you some great suggestions. You can't have your cake and eat it too--if you want him to purchase clothing, reduce the child support and he can meet this expectation.
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Forget it, she is one of 'those'.

Those that don't want to be told they are wrong, and only came to be told their ex is wrong.

She is incapable (by choice) of seeing what has been presented to her here.
 
billm said:
Forget it, she is one of 'those'.

Those that don't want to be told they are wrong, and only came to be told their ex is wrong.

She is incapable (by choice) of seeing what has been presented to her here.
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I don't get why you guys think this - she's already stated that she's tried sending stuff. The problem is that she doesn't ever get anything back so her own inventory is getting depleted while his is filling up. It's simple math.

My ex does the same thing - we have 50/50 custody but I rarely get back the clothes I send there - where as I always make an effort to send his back. Last year I had to buy school clothes 3 times because I kept running out! It's very frustrating.
 
Pursuinghappiness said:
Can someone please reassure me that when I'm finally done and have a custody arrangement that life won't be this petty and insane?

If I have to start referencing CanLii cases for precedence to determine the potential legal outcome of who should provide a pair of $15 Old Navy jeans for weekend visits, I swear I'm gonna lose my marbles.

Is this really the nonsense I've got to look forward to?

I need a hug.
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Well, that would be entirely up to you.

Petty stuff aside, realise that having a court order in place doesn't mean that the other party has to abide by it, or that there is much you can do about it if they don't (other than violations of access time, or not paying CS - everything else is unenforcable unless gross harm is being caused).
 
CSAngel said:
I don't get why you guys think this - she's already stated that she's tried sending stuff. The problem is that she doesn't ever get anything back so her own inventory is getting depleted while his is filling up. It's simple math.

My ex does the same thing - we have 50/50 custody but I rarely get back the clothes I send there - where as I always make an effort to send his back. Last year I had to buy school clothes 3 times because I kept running out! It's very frustrating.
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That is not true - she believes that the kids should be in clothing that the father directly buys when they are at their fathers house.

She does not get the clothes back that they showed up in when visiting their father, the NCP.

2 problems perhaps, but my comment was related to her continued denial that the CP parent is supposed to buy the clothes.

Sorry about your problems CSAngel - I have 50/50 with 3 kids and it is not a problem with us. Both of us consider the clothes to be owned by the kids, it travels freely between the houses, and we both do clothes shopping. This is not a problem because both of us are casual about it, as we should be. Its really unfortunate how people make things complicated that should not be. Good luck to you, perhaps it will improve over time.
 
MommaMouse said:
I still don't see where it states the assumption you are reffering to. It does state that each parent should contribute equally. But no where does it state that the CP should pay for everything. Am I missing this paragraph?
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You're missing the part where he pays child support and THAT is his contribution, YOU are expected to contribute equally. Because you recieve full table child support, assume that you are the `holder`of all the money (yours and his) for the children and it's up to you to provide for them with it. His contribution for daily items ie: clothing, food, toys etc gets paid to you in the form of child support, YOU then provide those items from a combined pot of the CS money and YOUR money as well.
 
CSAngel said:
I don't get why you guys think this - she's already stated that she's tried sending stuff. The problem is that she doesn't ever get anything back so her own inventory is getting depleted while his is filling up. It's simple math.

My ex does the same thing - we have 50/50 custody but I rarely get back the clothes I send there - where as I always make an effort to send his back. Last year I had to buy school clothes 3 times because I kept running out! It's very frustrating.
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Thank you I have said I sent clothes to his house. BAGS full of clothes for the weekend that DONT get returned. I am more trying to find out IF there is legislation or IF it is ambiguos.

blinkandimgone - as you said if I am responsible for everything, I should be supplying the neccesities ie: clothing, food, toys etc for the weekend. and if it's a matter of sending these items there and then recieving them back I wouldn't have a problem, the problem occurs when they don't come back.

Just out of curiosity do NCP view visitation as no different than going to a sleepover or going to Grandmas? (there have been a number of comments to that effect) Don't NCP want their house to be as much of a Home as the CP. I would hope my kids would look at the two homes equally.
 
MommaMouse said:
Thank you I have said I sent clothes to his house. BAGS full of clothes for the weekend that DONT get returned. I am more trying to find out IF there is legislation or IF it is ambiguos.

blinkandimgone - as you said if I am responsible for everything, I should be supplying the neccesities ie: clothing, food, toys etc for the weekend. and if it's a matter of sending these items there and then recieving them back I wouldn't have a problem, the problem occurs when they don't come back.

Just out of curiosity do NCP view visitation as no different than going to a sleepover or going to Grandmas? (there have been a number of comments to that effect) Don't NCP want their house to be as much of a Home as the CP. I would hope my kids would look at the two homes equally.
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After lawyers fees and support payments, there isn't a lot of money to go around.
While the CP stayed in the house full of furniture, I had to furnish a 2 bedroom basement appartment I rented. I had barely enough for a bunk bed for the kids. I slept on an air mattress for a year. When they were with me, they were dirt poor, when with the NCP, they lived in a beautiful house in the suburbs and maintained the same lifestyle they always did.
 
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