My 9 yr old son wants to come to my place instead of his Mom's.

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DowntroddenDad said:
I'm sorry BigDad, you do not get to make that call. The process may not work well, but it is the only one we have. You don't get to ignore the law just because you don't like it.

Your separation agreement is a binding agreement. You can't change it without mutual signed agreement between the parents or a court order. Your son does not get a vote, nor should you encourage him to think he does. The best you can tell him is that you will try and make it happen, but that it will take time.
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I thought that given your screen-name, you had experience with this. But, now you've got me confused.

My ex has flat out IGNORED the law because she doesn't like it. The system does nothing. I've seen this happen with guys too. LOTS. In other words, my experience proves you are wrong.

Once my son is 12 years old, and perhaps sooner, he absolutely does get a 'vote'. In fact a really strong one. My questions all relate to dealing with the 'gray period' between now and when he is 12.
 
@ Tayken,

Thanks for that post. Unbelievable.

When my son was bullied at school, and came home with his winter coat hood ripped off at the seam, and marks on his neck, I kept him home from school until I spoke with the principle the next day.

I would expect that the same would apply if he was said something extremely disconcerting about his Mom's house.

I guess not.
 
Tayken said:
Can anyone hear it? That voice? That omnipresent voice in case law coming? That common quote from that Justice that echos through hundreds of court rooms a day in our country... That quote... of pure and utter judicial common sense... That quote... Which must have been posted to this site a hundred times before...

As Justice Quinn stated in Gerenia v. Harb:



Please PARENT YOUR CHILD.

PS: This is from commonly quoted case law otherwise known as Jurisprudence. If you should keep your child and use the "excuse" that the child doesn't want to go... You will have this read to you by the judge, an order made against you, possible fine (contempt), reduction in access, loss of any custody and reduction in access. Finally you will have COST awarded against you and have to pay the other parent's legal fees for being well... As the very Honourable Mr. Justice Quinn states: NOT PARENTING YOUR CHILD!

Good Luck!
Tayken
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I, for one, was waiting for you to see this thread, as I knew that quote was coming.

However it seems that the OP is siding with his son instead of parenting.

Sure - I could try to make arrangements to do an exchange right away when he comes to my house when he should be going to hers, and we have done that twice over the years when he honestly made the mistake. But, she is not home, and his Uncle and Grandma can't drive. Further, there is a restraining order against the Uncle - he is not to approach me, and I certainly can't provoke that scenario by approaching him. By the time his Mother is home - he will have had his reward by playing with his friends here for an hour or 2.
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Your kidding me right...you son disobeys the rules and you reward him by ALLOWING him to play!? Get your head of of yous a$$ man. If your son shows up when he is to be with his mother you have two RESPONSIBLE choices

1) Put him in the car and take him to his mothers
2) He sits his 9 year old butt on time out.. NO TV, NO VIDEO GAMES, NO BOOKS, NO FRIENDS, NO ANYTHING... until such time you hear from his mother as to what she wants to do.
 
BigDad, I have three kids. One of whom is 18 and can make a decision on his own without amending the agreement, and two who are 16 and 14. I understand from some reading that 14 is the age at which a judge would take the child's feelings into consideration, that is FAR from saying that the child gets to make the decision at 14.

I've told the 18 year old that I would be very happy to have him with me, but I only want him to live with me because that is what he wants to do for good reasons, and not because it would hurt his mother.

If you feel your child is in danger at the other home, contact CAS. They will investigate and decide whether something needs to be done, and as an outsider to the agreement their report will have weight with a judge (not that the CAS is perfect).

If your child is in immediate danger, keep him with you and call CAS.

By keeping your son without consent of the other parent, you are in contempt, and any contempt charges will not be viewed kindly if you do apply to get full custody. It is in your best long term interests to not do anything that would prejudice the courts against you.
 
Berner_Faith said:
I, for one, was waiting for you to see this thread, as I knew that quote was coming.
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:) Like the sands of the hour glass... These are the posts of OttawaDivorce.com.

Berner_Faith said:
However it seems that the OP is siding with his son instead of parenting.
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And not putting 2 and 2 together and realizing that I was using case law to make him look like a bad parent.

I hope that the mother in this matter comes to this website and reads this thread. I would be more than happy to explain to her how to bring forward an urgent motion should the original poster in contravention of the Criminal Code section 282.(1) abducts the child in question in contravention of a court order and harbours the child at his personal residence.
 
Berner_Faith said:
Your kidding me right...you son disobeys the rules and you reward him by ALLOWING him to play!? Get your head of of yous a$$ man. If your son shows up when he is to be with his mother you have two RESPONSIBLE choices

1) Put him in the car and take him to his mothers
2) He sits his 9 year old butt on time out.. NO TV, NO VIDEO GAMES, NO BOOKS, NO FRIENDS, NO ANYTHING... until such time you hear from his mother as to what she wants to do.
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Now Berner_Faith... That response was not what I was expecting. But, much needed tone of voice for the poster in question and sage advice.
 
Have you spoken to your ex about counselling for the boy? It sounds like he is very angry and a neutral third party would likely help him with his feelings here (note, I am not the bleeding-heart-liberal type...this is just the same thought process I would go through if my daughter should ever come like this).

Then I would speak (well, speak via email in a very business like manner) with the ex about how you can work together to fix this. Either by having the boy over at your house until she comes home or some other alternative.

Should all other alternatives fail and the child decides to stay with you, at the age of 12, a judge will begin to listen to the wants of the child. The judge would then make a decision based off of the childs reasoning and maturity.

The idea of not changing the court order is fundamentally flawed on so many levels. You realize, should the ex file the existing order with FRO, and refuse to terminate your payments, FRO will continue to garnish your wages until you get a court order. And then back payment from the your ex MAY happen, but that is up to the judge.

As for your issue of dropping the kid off, it is called curb-side drop-offs. You drive up and tell the kid to get out. There is no need to walk them to the door. You just watch them go.

But you first have to be a parent and tell your kid that, even though you love them very much, what they are doing is unacceptable. And that you will do your best to work with your ex to figure out something that will be acceptable to everyone.

You need to parent. You also need to work with your ex to fix this. The idea that just because the kid can do something because they are simply able, doesn't negate that they need to understand there are reprocussions for their actions.
 
Tayken said:
Now Berner_Faith... That response was not what I was expecting. But, much needed tone of voice for the poster in question and sage advice.
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I suppose it angers me when parents allow their children to call the shots... maybe it was the way I was raised? My parents didn't take crap from us kids (they had 4). Our household was always so busy, which is why there were rules and those rules were expected to be followed.

There were numerous occasions over the years of living in my parents home, where either my siblings or I, lost tv and/or game privileges, and I remember one time, I screwed up bad and was not allowed to go to my friends birthday party ( can't remember exactly what I did, but boy do I remember the consequence of having to sit home and do nothing, while all my friends enjoyed the party)

I think the issue with "kids" these days, is that parents are afraid to discipline. They are afraid to put children on time out or take privileges away... because god forbid their children hate them for a day:rolleyes: I am sure there were many times I "hated" my parents, but looking back now I realize it really was not that bad.
 
bigdad said:
@ Tayken,

Thanks for that post. Unbelievable.

When my son was bullied at school, and came home with his winter coat hood ripped off at the seam, and marks on his neck, I kept him home from school until I spoke with the principle the next day.

I would expect that the same would apply if he was said something extremely disconcerting about his Mom's house.

I guess not.
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You appear to be an "over anxious" and possibly "over bearing" parent.

Also, here is more sage advice (Berner_Faith you guessing this coming next too?):

I challenge "bigdad" to be the "big man" and read these articles (which are short) and provide cogent and relevant argument counter to his claims against the other parent and why they could possible not be truthful in his matter:

Article 1:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Article 2:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

To even make it easier I challenge "bigdad" to be a big man and state how he is not doing exactly this and why he is not:

In the context of high conflict seperated parents, normal childhood behavior and incidents can take on epic proportions. Otherwise normal behavour can lead to suspician or be used against a parent to undermine care and custody. As one parent cries fowel, the other cries parental alienation cyndrome. The fight is on and heats up to the point of boiling over. The child is caught in the middle and their behaviour escalades as a result. Both parents then use the child’s behaviour as evidence of their own claim against the other.
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To test if "bigdad" is a "big man" and actually READING this message. He can re-quote the above quote (to demonstrate he read it) and fix the spelling errors I injected into it.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Tayken said:
You appear to be an "over anxious" and possibly "over bearing" parent.

Also, here is more sage advice (Berner_Faith you guessing this coming next too?):

I challenge "bigdad" to be the "big man" and read these articles (which are short) and provide cogent and relevant argument counter to his claims against the other parent and why they could possible not be truthful in his matter:

Article 1:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

Article 2:

Your Social Worker - Gary Direnfeld, MSW, RSW

To even make it easier I challenge "bigdad" to be a big man and state how he is not doing exactly this and why he is not:



To test if "bigdad" is a "big man" and actually READING this message. He can re-quote the above quote (to demonstrate he read it) and fix the spelling errors I injected into it.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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I always do look forward to your posts... you have a way of showing people are silly they are being, without actually saying it.

I am sure "BigDad" will not take anything we are saying as the truth, because lets face it... the 9 year old rules the households.
 
Everyone,

Here is how I now plan to handle the scenario.

When he shows up here, on a night he is to be with his Mom, I will send him to his room (there is no TV, no Computer etc there) until I contact his Mom. This may seem obvious - but note, this will do NOTHING to discipline him. He has been 'grounded' for weeks before, with no friends, no TV, no computer etc. and he is perfectly fine with it. He will still see it as a reward compared to being at his Mom's. What does work - is talking through things, and demanding he make a card with a written apology to the other person etc. etc.

I will then email his Mom (she never answers my calls but gets email on her phone) with details of what has happened, that he is 'grounded' in his room and ask what she wants to do. It will take a good 2 hrs for her to make arrangements. I will then have a written record that I did the best I could.

Then, if it goes to court - it shows I did the right thing, but that my son clearly does not want to live at her house.

This has been my first (I think) post on this forum. I am not impressed with the feedback. I know we are all hurting, but jumping to conclusions about a scenario is the exact mistake the courts make all the time. Doing the same thing out of the family court system is not right.

Thanks and goodbye.
 
Nicer? Nope. Intelligence and well meaning? Yes.

If there is anyone reading this who knows of a forum with helpful feedback instead of vitriolic people, please let me know.
 
bigdad said:
Nicer? Nope. Intelligence and well meaning? Yes.

If there is anyone reading this who knows of a forum with helpful feedback instead of vitriolic people, please let me know.
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You have to weed through the nonsense. I find if you don't word things the way a select few like, the nonsense starts. Just ignore it and keep posting. And if you look really hard, sometimes there is a little bit of sense mixed in with the "nonsense". Good luck to you, it isn't a good spot to be in, but I think it says a lot that you took the time to ask for some advice.
 
Unevenplayingground said:
You have to weed through the nonsense. I find if you don't word things the way a select few like, the nonsense starts. Just ignore it and keep posting. And if you look really hard, sometimes there is a little bit of sense mixed in with the "nonsense". Good luck to you, it isn't a good spot to be in, but I think it says a lot that you took the time to ask for some advice.
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do you agree with what he wants to do???
 
bigdad said:
Everyone,

Here is how I now plan to handle the scenario.

When he shows up here, on a night he is to be with his Mom, I will send him to his room (there is no TV, no Computer etc there) until I contact his Mom. This may seem obvious - but note, this will do NOTHING to discipline him. He has been 'grounded' for weeks before, with no friends, no TV, no computer etc. and he is perfectly fine with it. He will still see it as a reward compared to being at his Mom's. What does work - is talking through things, and demanding he make a card with a written apology to the other person etc. etc.

I will then email his Mom (she never answers my calls but gets email on her phone) with details of what has happened, that he is 'grounded' in his room and ask what she wants to do. It will take a good 2 hrs for her to make arrangements. I will then have a written record that I did the best I could.

Then, if it goes to court - it shows I did the right thing, but that my son clearly does not want to live at her house.

This has been my first (I think) post on this forum. I am not impressed with the feedback. I know we are all hurting, but jumping to conclusions about a scenario is the exact mistake the courts make all the time. Doing the same thing out of the family court system is not right.

Thanks and goodbye.
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I cannot weigh in on the issue at hand here as I don't have experience with it but I will say although I do not always like what I hear they are telling it the way the courts see it. If you are only looking to validate your opinions unfortunately it is the wrong place to be as they may not always share the same opinions (I have learned this) but they are based on significant amounts of research and case law.

I do a lot more lurking than I do posting but there are a number of very well intentioned and knowledgeable people here and I would strongly encourage you to follow their advice even if it is not in keeping with your own opinions.

My 2 cents! Have a great day!
 
standing on the sidelines said:
do you agree with what he wants to do???
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I agree with the final posting he made with respect to what he would do. He can't stop his son from going to his house, but he can't take control if his son does show up at his door. I don't think he was saying his son should do it, he was asking for advice IF his son did it.

What I don't agree with is the mob mentality that goes on sometimes on the forum. I don't know what people get out of it, I chalk it up to small "man" syndrome. The guy obviously cares about his son, enough to ask for a little advice, why can't a poster expect a bit of maturity? I think he can get a point while still being treated with respect. I know I listen a hell of a lot better when a person "talks" to me, instead of hurling insults. We need to remember it is easier to throw these insults from behind a computer.
 
Unevenplayingground said:
I agree with the final posting he made with respect to what he would do. He can't stop his son from going to his house, but he can't take control if his son does show up at his door. I don't think he was saying his son should do it, he was asking for advice IF his son did it.

What I don't agree with is the mob mentality that goes on sometimes on the forum. I don't know what people get out of it, I chalk it up to small "man" syndrome. The guy obviously cares about his son, enough to ask for a little advice, why can't a poster expect a bit of maturity? I think he can get a point while still being treated with respect. I know I listen a hell of a lot better when a person "talks" to me, instead of hurling insults. We need to remember it is easier to throw these insults from behind a computer.
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yes the end post he made was more reasonable, but that was after it was pointed out to him that he has to follow the court order and how a 9 year old has really no choice in the matter, its up to the adults to sort it out. He wasnt really listening to that at the start.
 
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