My 9 yr old son wants to come to my place instead of his Mom's.

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

bigdad

New member
Hello everyone,

My 9 yr old son is not happy at his Mom's house. She has moved in with her 80 yr old Mother and 54 year old brother (Who has major mental health issues and is a recovered drug addict) and she is rarely home until after dinner. There are no friends for my son in that neighbourhood.

He REALLY wants to come to my house, because I am always here (I work at home) and there are a TON of kids his age here.

I have tried to NOT 'rock the boat' and tell him he needs to stick to the schedule, but he is starting to realize he can simply get on the other school bus, and be brought to my place. It is just a matter of time before he realizes he has control over this and takes action.

Frankly, when it happens, I am going to let him stay. My question is, what happens legally?

Can the police come and take him to her house? I assume not. They may show up to make sure he is safe, but I will simply explain that my son obviously has 'issues' at his Mom's house - and that is what prompted him to come to my house instead. I will explain that I do not know exactly what those 'issues' are, as he just got home, and is not ready to talk about it yet. Until he does, I will let him stay.

I expect that will be that. The police will take notes, and be on there way - leaving the issue for the Family Court to deal with.

I have been told, that if this happens often enough, and we end up in court, the Judge will simply grant him more time with me, because a court order is not going to change things. In fact, it might make it more dangerous, because he could easily try and ride his bike, or walk the 4 kms from his Mom's house late at night, or in an Ottawa winter storm etc.

I should note that there has been ZERO parental alienation on my side. I NEVER speak poorly of his Mother, and I praise her in front of him whenever I can. There is however, lots of indication of his mother trying to alienate me. It appears to be back-firing though. Hence this post.

Thanks in advance for all advice!
 
I believe it is entirely dependant on what is written in your separation agreement or any court orders subsequent.

If you have defined access times, you can't just unilaterally change them, no matter what the circumstances.

You had best contact your lawyer and talk to them about what it will take to make an application to change access

I expect others here with more experience will chime in.
 
If you have a court order, and one with an enforcement clause in it, the police can very well show up and enforce the agreement. And you could find yourself facing contempt charges, accusations of PAS or HAP, and possibly even abduction.

Allowing a 9 year old to make adult decisions is wrong. Wrong, period.

Your expectations and ASSumptions are WAY out of whack. What the hell kind of parent lets the 9 year old call the shots and expects the court to validate & back them up?
 
@Downtroddendad: I am not changing the court orders. My son is indicating HE is going to. I see it coming, and I want to be prepared. I have done nothing to encourage his change in attitude.
 
Last edited:
I'm sorry to be so blunt here. YOU are the parent and guardian along with your ex. HE is a 9 year old child, and not of an age where the court will allow him to make unilateral decisions.

If you want to make this happen, you will have to go through the legal process. If you attempt to do it and ask forgiveness later, a judge will not be inclined to look upon you with leniency.
 
Blink is absoultely right. You tell the child he disobeyed both his mother and you and that he is not to come to your house when his mother is expecting him. Tell him to think about how worried his mother must be and that you would not like it if he did not show up on your days. It is not his decision and you should support the other parent and their time until there is a new order.
 
So if and when he shows up, you put him in the car and you take him to his mother's house. Until the court order is changed you must do this. Just because there is no enforcement clause does not mean you will not be in contempt. The enforcement clause is just to allow the police to remove the child and place him with the other parent.

You need to speak to a lawyer, or try to speak to your ex about this. Would you let your 9 year old son skip school because he decided he didn't want to go? Common... seriously... you are setting yourself up for failure and in my opinion you are setting your son up to become a stubborn brat, by allowing him to call the shots and tell his PARENTS what he is going to do.
 
bigdad said:
@Downtroddendad: I am not changing the court orders. My son is indicating HE is going to. I see it coming, and I want to be prepared. I have done nothing to encourage his change in attitude.
Click to expand...

bigdad said:
@blinkandimgone: There is no enforcement clause. I can't be held in contempt for my son's decisions.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.......

Holy wtf.

I am truly speechless and don't know what else to say.

Wow. :eek:
 
bigdad said:
@blinkandimgone: There is no enforcement clause. I can't be held in contempt for my son's decisions.
Click to expand...

Your kid is 9. Kids don't get to make those type of decisions.

You are not his friend, you are his parent. Act like one.
 
@Downtroddendad.

You state: "If you want to make this happen, you will have to go through the legal process."

I'm sorry - but NOTHING happens using the legal process. It is BEYOND broken.

The ONLY progress I have seen in ANY case, is when people 'bend' the rules.

@Wife#2: Sorry - but his Mother is not home to 'expect' him. He will not care about how 'worried' his mother is. He has asked me to tell her he hates her. I have done nothing to cause that, and I of course did not act on his request or even mention it to her. He also won't see the logic if I tell him how upset I would be if he didn't come to me on my days. In his mind, that would never happen. I also think you are missing the point - it IS HIS decision on which bus to get onto after school. He cares nothing about what the courts say. He is 9.

Sure - I could try to make arrangements to do an exchange right away when he comes to my house when he should be going to hers, and we have done that twice over the years when he honestly made the mistake. But, she is not home, and his Uncle and Grandma can't drive. Further, there is a restraining order against the Uncle - he is not to approach me, and I certainly can't provoke that scenario by approaching him. By the time his Mother is home - he will have had his reward by playing with his friends here for an hour or 2.

I guess to avoid the above scenario, I could put him in a taxi. Thoughts?
 
I think you're missing the point:

It is NOT his decision.

He does not have the right to decide which house to go to when or which bus to get on.

I cannot even fathom that a 'parent' would even be entertaining any of this?!!
 
bigdad said:
@Downtroddendad.

You state: "If you want to make this happen, you will have to go through the legal process."

I'm sorry - but NOTHING happens using the legal process. It is BEYOND broken.

The ONLY progress I have seen in ANY case, is when people 'bend' the rules.

@Wife#2: Sorry - but his Mother is not home to 'expect' him. He will not care about how 'worried' his mother is. He has asked me to tell her he hates her. I have done nothing to cause that, and I of course did not act on his request or even mention it to her. He also won't see the logic if I tell him how upset I would be if he didn't come to me on my days. In his mind, that would never happen. I also think you are missing the point - it IS HIS decision on which bus to get onto after school. He cares nothing about what the courts say. He is 9.

Sure - I could try to make arrangements to do an exchange right away when he comes to my house when he should be going to hers, and we have done that twice over the years when he honestly made the mistake. But, she is not home, and his Uncle and Grandma can't drive. Further, there is a restraining order against the Uncle - he is not to approach me, and I certainly can't provoke that scenario by approaching him. By the time his Mother is home - he will have had his reward by playing with his friends here for an hour or 2.

I guess to avoid the above scenario, I could put him in a taxi. Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I would suggest calling the mother if your son makes the decision to come to your house when he isn't scheduled to. Ask her if she wants to pick him up on the way home, or if she would like you to send him immediately home in a cab? As long as you are not encouraging him to do this, then that is really all you can do.

Nice to see you care enough to come to this forum for advice.
 
Can you not speak with your ex? That would be the mature thing to do, however, I very much understand that this may not be possible. Suggest kid comes to you after school and you can return him around time she gets home from work? Or she can pick him up on her way home?
 
blinkandimgone said:
I think you're missing the point:

It is NOT his decision.

He does not have the right to decide which house to go to when or which bus to get on.

I cannot even fathom that a 'parent' would even be entertaining any of this?!!
Click to expand...

I am preparing myself for what he will decide on his own. If I were to PLANT that idea in his head, then I would indeed be 'entertaining' this. I am not. He is reaching that point on his own.

It does not matter if he doesn't have the RIGHT to decide which bus to get on. He has the ABILITY. He will exercise that soon.

Come on everyone - you can't tell me that kids don't TEST their limits and as a parent you need to be prepared for that.

When it happens - there is the 'legal' way to handle it, which is BROKEN, and there is the 'PARENTING' way to handle it. You can't know the dynamics of the 'PARENTING' way, without knowing the parents, and the scenario my 9 year old son is in at his Grandma's house.

Let me give you a FICTITIOUS scenario. Let's say that your son is telling you his Uncle is doing drugs, and offering them to your son. Do you follow the court order? No way! You keep your son, and immediately file an emergency motion to deal with the issue.

Now, what about issues that are serious, but either not 'emergency' or hard to prove. Do you WAIT forever for the broken system to do something about it while your child is 'damaged'?

My question is more towards those scenarios, rather than simple child discipline issues.
 
wife#2 said:
Can you not speak with your ex? That would be the mature thing to do, however, I very much understand that this may not be possible. Suggest kid comes to you after school and you can return him around time she gets home from work? Or she can pick him up on her way home?
Click to expand...

I can talk to her. She can't talk to me. Your other points are good - but she refuses to allow more time with me, no matter what the reason.

She even wants me to pay for day camp on her weeks in the summer, when she ISN'T working, rather then spend time with him, because apparently she has 'things to do'. I offered she can drop him off and pick him up from my house on those weeks, since I work from home and can flex my hours. She almost bit my head off.
 
I'm sorry BigDad, you do not get to make that call. The process may not work well, but it is the only one we have. You don't get to ignore the law just because you don't like it.

Your separation agreement is a binding agreement. You can't change it without mutual signed agreement between the parents or a court order. Your son does not get a vote, nor should you encourage him to think he does. The best you can tell him is that you will try and make it happen, but that it will take time.
 
bigdad said:
Hello everyone,

My 9 yr old son....

Thanks in advance for all advice!
Click to expand...

Can anyone hear it? That voice? That omnipresent voice in case law coming? That common quote from that Justice that echos through hundreds of court rooms a day in our country... That quote... of pure and utter judicial common sense... That quote... Which must have been posted to this site a hundred times before...

As Justice Quinn stated in Gerenia v. Harb:

Undoubtedly, there are many tasks that a child, when asked may find unpleasant to perform. But ask we must and perform they must. A child who refused to go on an access visit should be treated by the custodial parent the same as a child who refused to go to school or otherwise misbehaves. The job of a parent is to parent.
Click to expand...

Please PARENT YOUR CHILD.

PS: This is from commonly quoted case law otherwise known as Jurisprudence. If you should keep your child and use the "excuse" that the child doesn't want to go... You will have this read to you by the judge, an order made against you, possible fine (contempt), reduction in access, loss of any custody and reduction in access. Finally you will have COST awarded against you and have to pay the other parent's legal fees for being well... As the very Honourable Mr. Justice Quinn states: NOT PARENTING YOUR CHILD!

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top