Multivitamins & Supplements - Special & Extraordinary?

stripes said:
Sometimes it's hard to see one's own enmeshment because the emotional logic is so persuasive - Mom is terrible! She's brainwashing the child! She's verbally aggressive to Dad! Of course I'm angry! - but unless you and Dad want to spend the next decade like this, you need to learn how to keep Mom is her proper place, as something that needs to be dealt with from time to time (think of an unreliable car, perhaps), not as someone who has the power to get you worked up.
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Very true. It's something we try to remind ourselves as often as we can. It's a natural reaction to get defensive, especially when facing lies and accusations. But you are right... there must come a point where the replies end and the fire stops being fuelled. It is Dad who is always the one to disengage first. Which I assume makes Mom feel as if she's won because Dad stopped defending himself. What is worrisome in all this is that she threatens to show the child the email communications to prove to him that he matters more to her than he matters to Dad. This is partly why it's so difficult for Dad to stop explaining/defending himself. Because if it comes down to it, he doesn't want his son thinking that Dad didn't try so Dad must not care. But eventually, regardless of what might be, there comes a point where enough is enough and Dad disengages. (Only for Mom to throw another issue at Dad shortly after.)
 
in my case I have an autistic son and I pay $200, extra a month for the very same things you listed , my ex is under employed and she was able to get that added to the support order , how ever she is giving my son marijuana capsules that she is making at home so things are before the courts cause there is no way in hell that counts as a suppliment
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I would have appealed this, there is no way I would pay whatever some quack with a six hour degree "prescribed" (assuming it wasn't a doctor)
 
Maggie82 said:
Very true. It's something we try to remind ourselves as often as we can. It's a natural reaction to get defensive, especially when facing lies and accusations. But you are right... there must come a point where the replies end and the fire stops being fuelled. It is Dad who is always the one to disengage first. Which I assume makes Mom feel as if she's won because Dad stopped defending himself. What is worrisome in all this is that she threatens to show the child the email communications to prove to him that he matters more to her than he matters to Dad. This is partly why it's so difficult for Dad to stop explaining/defending himself. Because if it comes down to it, he doesn't want his son thinking that Dad didn't try so Dad must not care. But eventually, regardless of what might be, there comes a point where enough is enough and Dad disengages. (Only for Mom to throw another issue at Dad shortly after.)
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Does he see his son on a regular basis? If yes then he can continue to foster a relationship. If no, I can see the difficulty. The problem though is that by giving in to her threats hes now dug himself a deep hole. He needs to stop. She sends an unreasonable request the answer is no and the reason why. For this instance "no I will not be sharing this expense as I have the supplements at my house which I paid for. Supplements for your home are covered under child support." Period the end. Let her show that to kid. When kid asks dad he tells him he pays full child support which is available to cover these expenses and leave it at that. "I will not discuss these issues with you. Its between your mother and I." "Im sorry your mother shared that info with you and I can assure you it is not true." "I love you and what the best for you. Please trust my decisions and leave this issue with me."

This kid lives with a brain washer. Shes a terrorist holding him hostage. You dont negotiate with her. Yes or no plus valid reason in writing. Nothing else. End of discussion. Should she share that communication with kid, its simply laid out. Your husband needs to disengage and stick to it.
 
^^^ Completely agree with the above. No communication with Mom needs to be more than three sentences long, and if those sentences are reasonable, civil and direct, Kid can see them with no harm done. What you don't want Kid seeing is long arguments and defenses. If Kid brings any of this up with Dad, the answer is always "that's between your mother and I. We both love you and want what is best for you, even if we disagree sometimes".

The key is consistency - Dad has to decide what he is going to do (stop discussing things with Mom beyond a single reply) and then STICK TO IT. After twelve years, it will take a while to break the habit of negotiating and going back and forth with Mom, but that just keeps his and Mom's emotional connection alive. If he wants to reduce everyone's enmeshment with Mom, it starts with cutting way back on unnecessary communication.
 
I set up a rule (so to speak) with my partner. When his ex sends him an email he reads it, does his rant if necessary, discusses both sides of an answer (yes and no) and then gives it 24 hours. If necessary he types out what he WANTS to say and saves it as a draft. After the 24 hours are over he will respond and it normally ends up being a simple yes or no and his reason why. It works much better than trying to rationalize or banter back and forth.

Remember the ex is only asking because she has to. She wants him to say yes and knows he wont so shes already prepared to release the hounds. Dont give her any further ammunition. Respond simply and let it go.
 
^good advice and I think we should aptly name this the RHR or "rockscan hound response." I think I will try this approach in my own situation with ex's g/f. Thank you.
 
rockscan said:
I set up a rule (so to speak) with my partner. When his ex sends him an email he reads it, does his rant if necessary, discusses both sides of an answer (yes and no) and then gives it 24 hours. If necessary he types out what he WANTS to say and saves it as a draft. After the 24 hours are over he will respond and it normally ends up being a simple yes or no and his reason why. It works much better than trying to rationalize or banter back and forth.

Remember the ex is only asking because she has to. She wants him to say yes and knows he wont so shes already prepared to release the hounds. Dont give her any further ammunition. Respond simply and let it go.
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We do something similar. The problem is that Mom's replies are packed with questions like "Do you not care enough about your son to pay an extra $___ for his health and well-being?" And other questions of the like. And if Dad doesn't answer the questions, she keeps demanding answers or writes that if he doesn't answer than it must be true, that he doesn't care. It's very difficult to not get defensive in those situations.
 
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Shes baiting him. Theyre rhetorical questions. She is going to make her own assumptions regardless of his answers. Stop poking the dragon. Yes or no and why and thats it. He could even add, "I will not continue to engage by responding to your inflammatory statements regarding my feelings for my son."

Hes the problem. He needs to stop. Put her on ignore and be done with it.
 
There are lots of good hacks or tips to help dealing with an unreasonable person. (I am going through another bout of crazy with my ex right at the moment, details of which will probably show up here if it gets worse).

I second rockscan's wait-24-hours-before-clicking-send rule. I also have a three-part rule for responding to long ranting emails:

1) Is the message polite? (no swearing or insults)
2) Is it directly related to Kid? (we really have nothing else to discuss)
3) Is there a direct question or request for information? (as opposed to just statements of opinion or rehashing old grievances)

If the answer to any of the questions is "no", I don't reply.

I also keep in mind the adage that "you don't have to attend every argument you're invited to".

It's difficult not to fire back responses, especially when you're being confronted with emotionally loaded questions or comments ("As you clearly don't care about Kid's well-being ..." or "Why are you not willing to co-operate for the sake of our child ..."). That's why these kinds of rules or hacks are invaluable, because they make you stand back and ask yourself "am I following my own rules?".
 
My partners ex sends loaded statements every time she emails. Mostly in the vein of "do you not believe our children are worth it?" He ignores those. The kids were saying stuff to him in a similar vein and he set boundaries with them. Now its a case of them ignoring him. Does it upset him? Absolutely. The other night we had a disagreement about him not being able to defend himself or speak to his kids. It doesnt matter what he says or does, his ex has the upper hand with her lies and recriminations. Fighting makes him look like the monster she paints him as. He finally got it that shouting into the wind accomplishes nothing.
 
In case it helps anyone...

It was confirmed by our lawyer that supplements are NOT considered special and extraordinary expenses.

Just thought I'd share the news. Might help someone down the road maybe.
 
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