Money owed

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

adda

New member
I feel SO stupid.

My husband and I divorced in 1999. He kept the home and thus agreed topay me an equalization payment for it's unmortgaged worth, which at the time was about $350,000 - meaning I was to get 175,000. At the time he stated that he couldn't afford to pay me out and asked if he could make installments, to which I agreed. He did pay me a lump sum of $50,000 at the start, as well as paying out the last 4 years of my car loan (about $25 - $30,000) from the same pool of money. Beyond this, he paid me in monthly installments of the same amount - he never missed a payment and they were always of the same amount.

Our divorce agreement states: "any amounts outstanding from the $175,000 payable to the wife as of December 31, 2003 shall bear an interest rate of 6% per annum compounded semi annually."

I only remembered that date, and thus when my ex stopped paying me in january of 2004 I didn't think anything of it. Having sat down with my boyfriend and gone over the documents, we discovered that, in fact at the end of December of 2003, he still owed me approx. (dependent on the cost of the remainder of the car loan), $ 50,000. Which he hasn't paid (175k minus 50k [initial payout], -about 30k [car loan] - 44k [monthly payouts] = 51k). There is no mistake. I remember the cessation of payments clearly as I had just moved into a new apartment, and I certainly never received any lump sum that would make up the difference. Also, the court document confirms the amount and number of cheques issued to me between June of 2000 and December of 2003.

My problem is that I don't have my bank records from that time, and I have contacted my bank and their first answer is that they only keep records back as far as 7 years. Even if I can get some sort of bank record, I don't know how I would go about "proving a negative" - surely any good lawyer would simply say that if I showed them the true financial record that "obviously" I had another account which I am not sharing.

Is there a "statute of limitations" on these things?

I can hardly believe I was so dumb to miss such a huge sum - would a court accuse me of "holding off" payments to incur the interest fees?


What can I do? Ifeel so, SO stupid. :(
 
Have you spoken to the ex about this? See what numbers he has? Maybe suggest forgiving the interest in lieu of what is actually owed... I have heard there is a 7 year statute of limitations, but more educated members will be able to shed some light on that.
 
Have you thought about checking your previous income tax filings? If you received money from him wouldn't you have been obligated to report it?


You can be certain that your ex has kept his records. If you can get the past 7 yrs of bank statements that is at least a start. Maybe your ex can fill in the blanks.

If this was a non-issue to you all of these years, what prompted you to make it an issue now? Just curious.
 
Berner_Faith said:
Have you spoken to the ex about this? See what numbers he has? Maybe suggest forgiving the interest in lieu of what is actually owed... I have heard there is a 7 year statute of limitations, but more educated members will be able to shed some light on that.
Click to expand...
very good idea. It seems obvious that the record keeping on the posters part wasnt that great. I wonder if there was/is something that she is forgetting and the ex can shed light on it for her. Best to talk to the ex first then go from there. She cant even give a exact amount for the payment for the car loan.
 
dinkyface sometimse equalization is directed to be put towards spousal arrears and in that case it is taxed - that happened in my case. Sucks.
 
I can't give an exact accounting of the car loan as this was paid by the ex - thus I never had information on that exact for the broadest possible interpretation. I had kept records, but I dump my records after about 5 years - too much paper. Boy - do I regret that now.

Have thought about talking to the X about it, but wanted to know my position first - I don't much care about going after the interest - it's beside the point.

dinkyface is right - as it was an equalization payment, it was not taxable, thus I have no record for it on my taxes.

Standing - I am positive that I have never received the money. I know what I HAVE received - the only thing I don't know the exact figures for are the car loan - thus my inexactitude. There is no question that I am missing +/- $50k.

Finally, arabian, my boyfriend was checking the agreement with regards to another issue regarding the kids - while doing so I looked through the figures and realised that they didn't add up...
 
adda said:
I can't give an exact accounting of the car loan as this was paid by the ex - thus I never had information on that exact for the broadest possible interpretation. I had kept records, but I dump my records after about 5 years - too much paper. Boy - do I regret that now.

Have thought about talking to the X about it, but wanted to know my position first - I don't much care about going after the interest - it's beside the point.

dinkyface is right - as it was an equalization payment, it was not taxable, thus I have no record for it on my taxes.

Standing - I am positive that I have never received the money. I know what I HAVE received - the only thing I don't know the exact figures for are the car loan - thus my inexactitude. There is no question that I am missing +/- $50k.

Finally, arabian, my boyfriend was checking the agreement with regards to another issue regarding the kids - while doing so I looked through the figures and realised that they didn't add up...
Click to expand...
then why when he stopped payments did you not say to him then that he still owed you money?? If someone owed me that kind of money I would be damn sure when the payments ended that I was paid all I was owed.
 
I know - I simply didn't keep track - as stated in the first post, I had figured payments ended automatically at the end of 2003. I was an idiot and didn't check, distracted with a move and a new job.

I can repent at leisure, now.

I wanted to know if there was a way to access records back to past the 7 years ... contrary to what the banks say - without that, this really becomes a "she- said-he said" thing without any real merit.

Which, given the time that has passed, it probably is. sigh. I an an idiot.
 
adda said:
I know - I simply didn't keep track - as stated in the first post, I had figured payments ended automatically at the end of 2003. I was an idiot and didn't check, distracted with a move and a new job.

I can repent at leisure, now.

I wanted to know if there was a way to access records back to past the 7 years ... contrary to what the banks say - without that, this really becomes a "she- said-he said" thing without any real merit.

Which, given the time that has passed, it probably is. sigh. I an an idiot.
Click to expand...
believe me we have all done things that in hindsight we wonder what the hell we were thinking. I bet from now on you will keep better records and not throw stuff out that pertains to ongoing stuff.

Did you just talk to a customer service rep at the bank or did you go higher up like bank manager? If you never spoke to the manager then I would start there. I would also check with your lawyer if you can still collect the money or if that boat has sailed.
 
Thanks standing - yeah I've made an appointment with my banker - and I'll start there - see what happens.

..and I will check with my lawyer - a little leary of this though as it always seems to cost a small fortune, and I must say, given the circumstances, I'm not really expecting results. I know that this is a long shot.
 
You might want to ask your lawyer about doing this work for you on a percent basis. Offer him 30% of the arrears if he is successful. If he is unsuccessful then you don't pay him anything. He might very well agree. Worth a shot and you might be surprised how quickly he moves on this. He would probably pursue a cost application thus making a tidy little pile.
 
standing on the sidelines said:
Did you just talk to a customer service rep at the bank or did you go higher up like bank manager? If you never spoke to the manager then I would start there. I would also check with your lawyer if you can still collect the money or if that boat has sailed.
Click to expand...
When we separated, for equalization we had to produce bank statements for our accounts from the date of the marriage, that was 11 years previous. I had no problem, they said they get this all the time. I'm not sure what level the person I spoke to was; they had their own little cubical but I believe the actual branch manager was someone else and above them.

Actually now that I think about it, it was more than 11 years, it must have been almost 13 years by the time we were doing the NFP.
 
Seems to me that law offices keep documentation for a very long time (using off-site storage facilities). If you used a lawyer at the time of your separation/divorce and had to produce financial documentation then they very likely would have retained your file.

Agree with Mess. Banks keep documentation longer than 7 yrs as far as I know. Definitely speak to a manager.
 
To the OP: As a few have indicated here, the typical bank labour will spew out the 7 year jingle... You do need to speak with a manager, in my case I met my local branch manager the very first time thr next day following my Ex's request for her divorce. It helps to have the relationships solidified before needing this level of service but regardless in the end you ARE thier customer! My manager explained that when you call the standard is to get 7 years going back but it is only quarterly statements which at least for me, useless to show the truth.

My Bank manager went into the system himself, he printed each account month by month, one at a time, month by month and went back to the beginning which in my case was the early 90's (17 plus years). I was informed that the information is there, that he had to do it himself, any other person in our branch did not have the clearance or they did not have the understanding of the bank's system. It is there and you can't take no for an answer. As for the cost or charges, maybe I was lucky in that I have not been charged anything, maybe they have reviewed my case and/or circumstance but I have been given maybe 200 statements - more.

I realize that what they have done for me has been invaluable, in the end my Ex has already made her statements and lies and soon we will be providing all the documents, all with ther signature - the court will decide what they want in terms ofher lies and the proof, I am only worried about me and a fair settlement based on the truth.... When you are speaking with the bank, I can't stress enough to go in with the attitude described - it is never about getting back, hurting the other person, or anything close: it is just about rooting out the truth for all.

Arabian:
arabian said:
dinkyface sometimse equalization is directed to be put towards spousal arrears and in that case it is taxed - that happened in my case. Sucks.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on this? I understand the difference, but they are both seperate entities. If you some form of deal that allowed your ex to cover the equalization over time and thus increaasing your spousal support by X$ a month - those X$ a month would still be associated as in effect a loan payment. Not as SS - this I guess would not be the interest portion of your property settlement - interest is income and this wouldd need to be declared as such.... but not the actual equalization??

Can you describe your case better in how your equalization came to be treated as spousal support? Did you allow the agreement to be worded in such a way that your ex's representation pulled the wool over your side's eyes? (as a lawyer telling my client to word the equalization so as to gain the tax deduction, for my client, while the other side is just happy to get the number (dollar figure) that by all rights justifiably was theirs to begin with but allowed the wording to read....."in lieu of monies owed as equalization my client is willing to increase monthly spousal support by X$ a month for the next 6 years" This would then read as SS to the cra as SS is SS no matter how or for why it is paid in the first place??

I am just getting a feeling my XxX will try something like this, to "give her a chance" when (ok - my thinking positively which is really good on my part these days!!) the court actually agrees that the financials and the transfers and where the money went (nothing to do with anything about our family, raising or security of same). If she is faced with the large equalization - it would need to come out of her half (50%) of the house proceeds. Yes, I assume that she will do near anything to keep her dream alive, which is to own her "white picket fence".
 
Thanks Mess - ddol1 - That is what I wanted to hear. My concern is not only that I can access my records, but that my ex can access his. And Ddol - I agree with you on the attitude - I'm not after a big payout - I'm not asking for all those years of accrued interest, I would simply like to make good on a very bad mistake that I allowed to happen. My ex could very well have made the same assumption as me based upon our records - who knows? It's very good to hear that records exist to proof the truth of the matter.

Thanks to all for taking the time to post.
 
Call the Head Office of the banking institution. They have persons on staff who do "archiving" and there ought to be archived information pertaining to you, beyond 7 years. There is a fee. Hey, it's the Bank. Hope that works.
 
Last edited:
I actually have the same issue, I was unable to get anything past 7 years from the Bank. They told me that they do not keep anything older than that. I did talk to different people at the bank, so does it vary from bank to bank?
 
Moolight, they definately keep records going back more than 7 years. I deal with a large branch downtown in the largest city in Canada, and they have numerous multimillion dollar clients who go through divorce. I got instant service.

It's possible you are being ignored, but the records are there. Talk to a family law specialist, have them send a letter to your branch if necessary. There is no reason for you to be treated like this, other than that you have been dealing with junior personnel who don't completely understand the process.
 
I certainly did not get that service at RBC, I keep getting the 7 years archive limit under the canadian bank regulation. I will try what you said to see if that makes a difference.

My Lawyer never mentioned anything when I told that I could not obtained records past 7 years. Luckily I had RSP statement printed at home that where close to the date needed.

The only one that is really disputed is from 1994 a bank account statement as I provided the booklet. I did not bother with my second bank account as I could find any bank statement that would be acceptable.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top