Legal rights for a 20 yr. commonlaw relationship?

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so he paid for the house and you contributed by looking after the place?? He did put you as joint tenant? I am not sure you would be totally entitled to 50/50 split.

Your best bet is to first figure out how much the property went up from the time your name went on title until now. I may be mistaken but you do not get the value from the time he bought it until the time your name went on it as you were common-law.

Once you have that figure then you can negotiate with him.
 
Wondergirl,

You are in the correct forum, your questions are about common law. If Threads are in the wrong place the mods can move them.

Please use this thread to ask any questions related to your situation that you please.

Your situation regarding spousal support and the situation regarding the property are separate issues with separate resolutions.

With spousal support, you repeat often that he wanted you to not work. This does not take away your own responsibility here, you chose that lifestyle. You could have said no, you could have found a different relationship, etc. This is not an issue to focus on or waste any energy on, it is just a distraction from your actual issues. You could sit in your lawyer's office and chat about it for an hour, and it wouldn't get you any closer to settling your case, you would just be paying your lawyer to listen.

The issue in court will be, are you capable of working? What job are you capable of working at? What career did you have prior to entering the relationship? The court will look at your employability and at the average wage in jobs that you are capable of.

It does not look good on you if you claim that your income is $0 and will remain $0 forever. We all have responsibility to support ourselves. Your ex's lawyer will argue that you should be imputed at least a minimum wage for the purposes of calculating support. Whether or not you work, any support would be calculated as though you were earning that much income.

If you enter $0 into support calculators it will give you a misleading answer.

Regarding the property, you have a very complicated situation. I will try to break it down to show the issues that will need to be addressed.

  • The property was jointly held. Any increase in value of the property should be split 50/50. If it was bought for $200k and would sell for $300k, then the increase in value is $100k. The amount to split because of the joint ownership would be $100k.
  • Your ex paid for the purchase of the property in it's entirety. This has to count for something. Using the same numbers, if he paid $200k then that money would be his.
  • You worked and maintained the farm. This has to count for something. According to recent appeal court rulings on resulting trusts, in Ontario, a judge would estimate the value of the work you did and assign you an additional claim on the value of the farm of that amount.
  • This has to be balanced against the fact that you were supported during that time, you were housed, fed, transported, clothed, etc.
The calculations are not simple, you will argue your side as best you can, he will argue his side as best he can. The longer you involve lawyers and the higher the court costs, the less money there will be to split.

You certainly have a substantial claim. If you are able to negotiate and come to a fair settlement this will be in the best interests for both of you.

To give you an example, my own parents owned a small farm and my father had considerable construction equipement. They were never able to settle, they spent all their life savings on lawyers, the farm and equipment were eventually auctioned off at a fraction of their value.
 
the home seems to be quite confusing, first in his name only, transferred it to her name to hide it from ex and finally after a bit added his name back onto it as joint.

Can the OP give a timeline on when all that happened?? Not sure if it will matter but always good to have all the info.
 
The transfer of titles is odd, but since the current situation is joint ownership, and there was obvious intent that after 10 years the ownership should be joint, then as long as he isn't going to try to claim sole ownership it shouldn't really matter. The current situation is joint.

Because he paid the full mortgage he will argue unjust enrichment if she askes for a 50/50 split. However...

She maintained the property and worked the farm, so she will argue a resulting trust.

IMHO (and keep in mind, wondergirl, I am not a lawyer) the unjust enrichment and the resulting trust should cancel each other out, and the simplest way to save $50,000 on lawyers would be split the property 50/50, even if it doesn't work out to the penny. However that requires that both parties want to save legal costs and get it over with.
 
Re: Standing on the sidelines.

The home was purchased 10 yrs ago, put in his name...when he realized that he did not want his ex wife to have any knowledge of this purchase, about a few months later he put the home solely in my name (deed/mortgage). Once he was released from support payments to his son by way of a lump sum payment he then approached me to put the home in both our names (joint tenant in this case). This was approx. one or two years after it was in my name solely.

Also realize as i had stated previously, We were already 10 yrs into the relationship. So this home was purchased halfway into a 20 yr common law partnership.

Hope that helps.
 
how much equity are we talking about here??? You need the numbers in order to see if its worth the fight. He should be entitled to his downpayment back before any equity is split IMHO.
 
Mess said:
IMHO (and keep in mind, wondergirl, I am not a lawyer) the unjust enrichment and the resulting trust should cancel each other out, and the simplest way to save $50,000 on lawyers would be split the property 50/50, even if it doesn't work out to the penny. However that requires that both parties want to save legal costs and get it over with.
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I know that that won't happen, being that he will definitely fight for full ownership on the home regardless of the joint tenant ownership. My thoughts on this are he is expecting to offer approx. 20 percent of what I am claiming with no SS included. Keep in mind also that he currently owes me 6500 dollars for the sale of the cattle which had happened about a month ago, and he did not pay that because he states that my deposition to him stated this payment requirement. . This is neither here nor there I guess, but...it shows his intent to pay as little as he feels he can get away with.
 
Re: the equity...

The home is basically free and clear except for a very small mortgage left on it of 10,000 which in my deposition is deducted from the split and also deducting the percentage of if he would sell the house (what the costs would be in real estate agent/paperwork/etc) My lawyer accounted for that.
 
This is definitely confusing regarding the house in the sense that different beliefs in what happens to a "joint tenant" property. As I sit here and think about all of this the designation of joint tenant seems to have not alot of substance to it in my case.
 
wondergirl said:
This is definitely confusing regarding the house in the sense that different beliefs in what happens to a "joint tenant" property. As I sit here and think about all of this the designation of joint tenant seems to have not alot of substance to it in my case.
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If you would have been legally married it would be a lot more black and white.
 
Forget about it being a "house" for a minute.

This is a business. It is a farm, etc. The business includes the physical property, equipment, produce, debts, receivables, etc. etc.

You and your ex are joint owners of the business. However he made 100% of the financial investment in the business.

The question is how you split the current value of the business. You made an investment of labour. From your description you did all the work, however I think your ex will argue against that. You mentioned the sale of cattle, for example. Who handled the sale? Who provided the money to purchase in the first place? Where did cost of feed, etc. come from?

You certainly should and will be compensated for your labour, but I am saying to keep in mind that your ex will also detail every penny he put into the business.

Again, the business also provided you with housing, and all living expenses, so it is not as though you did not receive ongoing payment for your labour. Of course you put in more than you took out, but the question is, how much?

Because the cash investment was so one-sided it would be absurd, on the surface, to just assume a 50/50 split because of joint ownership.

If your ex were willing to negotiate and settle, you could save a lot of legal fees. Hopefully the process will not eat up all the value of the property. That said, both of you have to be willing to see both sides of this and do a fair accounting. This was not a marriage and the property is not marital property, it should be treated as a business and split up fairly.
 
Mess said:
Forget about it being a "house" for a minute.

This is a business. It is a farm, etc. The business includes the physical property, equipment, produce, debts, receivables, etc. etc.

You and your ex are joint owners of the business. However he made 100% of the financial investment in the business.

The question is how you split the current value of the business. You made an investment of labour. From your description you did all the work, however I think your ex will argue against that. You mentioned the sale of cattle, for example. Who handled the sale? Who provided the money to purchase in the first place? Where did cost of feed, etc. come from?

You certainly should and will be compensated for your labour, but I am saying to keep in mind that your ex will also detail every penny he put into the business.

Again, the business also provided you with housing, and all living expenses, so it is not as though you did not receive ongoing payment for your labour. Of course you put in more than you took out, but the question is, how much?

Because the cash investment was so one-sided it would be absurd, on the surface, to just assume a 50/50 split because of joint ownership.

If your ex were willing to negotiate and settle, you could save a lot of legal fees. Hopefully the process will not eat up all the value of the property. That said, both of you have to be willing to see both sides of this and do a fair accounting. This was not a marriage and the property is not marital property, it should be treated as a business and split up fairly.
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very good post. I wonder how much the other person put down as a downpayment
 
as stated, he put down payment and has always paid for everything.
The financial manipulation in our relationship was always the de facto. :mad:

Here's a small example. If for instance I needed to go grocery shopping, pick up stuff for myself or him..etc, I would always have to ask for an "allowance" and I was never given money for myself on any regular basis other than small amounts here and there "if I asked"

Mess: Your posts are very helpful, and I definitely appreciate your input in this thread :)
 
wondergirl said:
as stated, he put down payment and has always paid for everything.
The financial manipulation in our relationship was always the de facto. :mad:

Here's a small example. If for instance I needed to go grocery shopping, pick up stuff for myself or him..etc, I would always have to ask for an "allowance" and I was never given money for myself on any regular basis other than small amounts here and there "if I asked"

Mess: Your posts are very helpful, and I definitely appreciate your input in this thread :)
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obviously the perks of living with him outweighed the cons or else you would have done something a long time ago. You had the right to have a job and earn your own money, you made the choice not to. Doesnt mean you get get rewarded for that now. That being said I still do believe you deserve something but when it comes down to it, the judge will decide.

How about this, ask him to give you a settlement of something to help you until you get yourself back on your feet, say 20k?? Choose a number that you think is fair and is reasonable. He may decide to settle with you in order to avoid court, legal fees and to just get it done and over with.
 
wondergirl said:
arabian: Alanon is indeed where i've been in the past, and to some extent it helps those in need in times of crisis..but, you have to realize that the concept of a higher power doesn't apply to everyone's beliefs..and in their case the word "God" is used way too much for my liking. but...that really doesn't have anything to do with all of this...Detachment works :)
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I think you have misunderstood the 12 steps.

One does not need to believe in "God' to understand that there is a higher power than 'yourself', and to release some aspect of control to that end. Call it 'fate', 'karma', 'science'... whatever you like.
 
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