It's about to get nasty....

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oink

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A quick synopsis of the details....


  • Married 9yrs up to Jul 2012
  • stbx had a soon to be 17yrs old daughter from previous ( 6-7yrs when I came along)
  • Stbx has sole custody of daughter, bio father came 2-3 times when daughter was 7 to pick her up for 1-2 days
  • I was never given a chance to adopt or have a say in the child's upbringing throughout the 9yrs
  • We had a son in 2008
  • stbx was earning 45k when we met, I was earning less and bought her a new car for her b'day in 2005, replaced it with a newer one in 2009 that she still drives
  • Stbx has refused to upgrade her grade 12 education since then, and when we talked about it, she turns it into an argument
  • we had to move in 2010 because of me (work), she quit her job (not professional or career, but had been at it for over 10yrs) and did odd jobs before gaining full-time employment in 2011 with same company
  • We moved again in Jul 2012, she quit job again and gained employment in Aug 2012 full-time and earns close to 30k now
  • I told stbx I want a divorce early Aug 2012, with a separation date of jul 2012 which both agree on now, and started mediation in Sept
  • We have a house that we still live in together, line of credit debt etc
Problems...


1. She wants me to pay CS for stepdaughter even though I have never had a say in the girl's upbringing or been allowed to discipline her


2. I have told her upfront I am willing to pay CS for my son, she gets half my pension (she is yet to provide her pension info due to the fact that she cashed out some of it during the mediation process and I know about this), and SS (If it's deemed that I have to, for 4.5yrs)


3. I currently sleep on an inflated mattress in the office and she wants me to move out, and keeps repeating this


4. I give my son a birth everyday and take him to daycare/school, she picks him up. I recently took him to Europe to meet his cousins, aunts and uncles and paid for all that alone. I do other stuff with him around town, sit down with him and play and watch cartoons.


5. She is telling me that she is going to go for sole custody of our son, wants SS and CS for both kids


6. Made a comment like "by the time am done with you, you will wish you were still married to me.


7. We were told to make a list of all our household items and put our names next to what we will like to have....I did mine and was reasonable about it, but she wants to have all the newer stuff and more. I am not even prepared to fight over those items.


8. I don't have any family in this country and my son is the only thing have got. I am not going to waste time in mediation over CS, SS and the house sale, I am now more than ever prepared to go to court and take my chance.


9. Back in Sept, I brought it to stbx attention that a daughter is smoking Marijuana, daughter admitted it and said she got it when she went away for a week to SW Ontario to stay with a friend. Over Xmas period stbx took the kids to my in-laws, she came back on the 30th Dec, I ask where daughter is and was told she is with same friend in SW Ontario where she got Marijuana from in the first place and will be there all week with the friend whose single parent mother works 2 jobs and is gone all day. I couldn't believe my ears, and was told by stbx "I have sole custody of her, and make the decisions"


Some people might ask....why are you then asking this man to pay CS for your daughter then, when it has never had a say in her life for the past 9yrs and is just being used as a father figure?


Your thoughts please
 
Best of luck. I'll let others more qualified to comment on the other stuff as I have yet to be through it.

EDIT: I will actually comment on the living together. I have been separated since Aug 2011. We still live together separately and it sucks. However I'm doing it to ensure I get my time with my kids. As she words it I forced 50/50 on her. My advice don't move out unless you have it in writing.
 
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Thanks for that....

Correction to my #4 point above, I meant to say I GIVE MY SON A BATH EVERY MORNING and take him to daycare / school while she picks him up in the afternoon.

Some might look at all the above and say why is she being unreasonable about the whole thing, but it's obvious that she is looking to make me suffer and take me for the little I have left.

She keeps saying I don't have a lawyer, and am going to let her believe that until she gets served.

FB_ said:
Best of luck. I'll let others more qualified to comment on the other stuff as I have yet to be through it.

EDIT: I will actually comment on the living together. I have been separated since Aug 2011. We still live together separately and it sucks. However I'm doing it to ensure I get my time with my kids. As she words it I forced 50/50 on her. My advice don't move out unless you have it in writing.
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oink said:
Thanks for that....

Correction to my #4 point above, I meant to say I GIVE MY SON A BATH EVERY MORNING and take him to daycare / school while she picks him up in the afternoon.

Some might look at all the above and say why is she being unreasonable about the whole thing, but it's obvious that she is looking to make me suffer and take me for the little I have left.

She keeps saying I don't have a lawyer, and am going to let her believe that until she gets served.
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Start documenting daily everything you do with your son. Do you put him to bed, read him books, make him dinner, laundry etc.

Also document what you are not allowed to do with step daughter. Document all decisions that are made and who made them regarding her.

If you choose to stay you have a long road ahead of you. As others got me to do buy a voice recorder and keep it on whenever you are in the house together ($99.00 for a good one at best buy, don't cheap out). Please note that this may not be used in court but could be crucial in defending a false allegation should she chose to go that route.
 
1. She wants me to pay CS for stepdaughter even though I have never had a say in the girl's upbringing or been allowed to discipline her
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CS is possibility whether you disciplined her or not since you had a 9 year marriage. Is it a certainty that this child will want to live with her mother after your divorce?

2. I have told her upfront I am willing to pay CS for my son, she gets half my pension (she is yet to provide her pension info due to the fact that she cashed out some of it during the mediation process and I know about this), and SS (If it's deemed that I have to, for 4.5yrs)
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She has to prove entitlement for SS. I'd stop offering to pay it until she does that in any amount or length of time. I would immediately stop talking about this...she has the burden of proving entitlement. Since you're still in the house...you should have worked out some kind of budget for rough living expenses with her by email so that she's paying some and you're paying some based on income level.

3. I currently sleep on an inflated mattress in the office and she wants me to move out, and keeps repeating this
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Under no circumstances should you move out of the marital home without a custody agreement in place unless you're planning on losing custody of your child. What she says or wants is immaterial. You have every right to be in your home with your child. You should no longer be communicating with her with anything but email...and only over issues regarding either necessary finances or child issues. Stop all unncessary verbal communication.

You should be working with your lawyer to figure out how to divest of the family home...either through a buy-out or sale so that you can both move into your own homes. You'll need a temp custody agreement to do that though.

4. I give my son a birth everyday and take him to daycare/school, she picks him up. I recently took him to Europe to meet his cousins, aunts and uncles and paid for all that alone. I do other stuff with him around town, sit down with him and play and watch cartoons.
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Start keeping a daily parenting diary detailing your activities with the kids each day.

5. She is telling me that she is going to go for sole custody of our son, wants SS and CS for both kids
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She's gonna say a lot of stuff and file for a lot of stuff. Its divorce. Ignore her and work on proving why you deserve to have 50/50 custody of your son. Start keeping a calendar. Make sure you're involved in his daily life..talk to his teachers, his friend's parents, take him where he needs to go (ie doctors, dentist, etc). Basically be involved and document it so that you can be prepared for a custody evaluation. What she wants is immaterial...she has to prove why you aren't entitled to have shared custody of your child. Everytime you communicate with her through email only...print it out (and her responses)...keep it in your diary. When you write email, be polite, concise and non-emotional. Imagine that everything you write, a custody evaluator or judge might read.

6. Made a comment like "by the time am done with you, you will wish you were still married to me.
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That's unlikely and who gives a shit what she says.

7. We were told to make a list of all our household items and put our names next to what we will like to have....I did mine and was reasonable about it, but she wants to have all the newer stuff and more. I am not even prepared to fight over those items.
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Good attitude. Unless its a huge deal for you...if you can live without it, let her have it. It will all be old by the time you finally get divorced anyway. Its probably not worth fighting over. Do your best to negotiate what you can and then let the rest go.

8. I don't have any family in this country and my son is the only thing have got. I am not going to waste time in mediation over CS, SS and the house sale, I am now more than ever prepared to go to court and take my chance.
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I didn't go the mediation route but it sounds like your ex might not be a good candidate for it anyway...hard to say. You can waste a lot of time and money in mediation with someone trying to rake you over the coals. However, family court sucks too and it sounds like you're going to have a custody fight which means OCL or a private evaluator so prepare for some stress.

If you don't have family in this country and she does. That may be a factor in a custody decision. You might want to work on a network of friends, etc who can offer you child care assistance.

9. Back in Sept, I brought it to stbx attention that a daughter is smoking Marijuana, daughter admitted it and said she got it when she went away for a week to SW Ontario to stay with a friend. Over Xmas period stbx took the kids to my in-laws, she came back on the 30th Dec, I ask where daughter is and was told she is with same friend in SW Ontario where she got Marijuana from in the first place and will be there all week with the friend whose single parent mother works 2 jobs and is gone all day. I couldn't believe my ears, and was told by stbx "I have sole custody of her, and make the decisions"
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Hearsay, inflammatory and probably immaterial even to a custody evaluator. You need to concentrate on why you're the best father for your child...not why she's the worst mother. Trust me when I say that badmouthing her as a mother will get you no where. Concentrate on positives and concentrate on your own parenting.

Some people might ask....why are you then asking this man to pay CS for your daughter then, when it has never had a say in her life for the past 9yrs and is just being used as a father figure?
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She's asking for CS because a) she can because you've been married for 9 years b) its more money in her pocket. Its one of the pitfalls of marrying a woman with children. You might not like it but it is what you signed up for by marrying her.
 
Also...read this in detail

THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum

(just a note: I don't agree with everything on this link...tad bit paranoid, in my opinion. I also don't agree with being unnecessarily stalkerish or aggressive...I think it can be used against you. Especially the parts of this link which discuss attacking the other parent...I wouldn't do that having been through a custody evaluation. Being positive is a good strategy in my opinion. But the parts about what to expect, about what to ignore from the other side, and about documentation are fairly valid so its worth a read.)
 
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Pursuinghappiness said:
Also...read this in detail

THE LIST (Print It) - Divorce Forum and Child Custody Forum

(just a note: I don't agree with everything on this link...tad bit paranoid, in my opinion. I also don't agree with being unnecessarily stalkerish or aggressive...I think it can be used against you. But the parts about what to expect, about what to ignore from the other side, and about documentation are fairly valid.)
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Wow! is all I have to say to that totally, biased, ridiculous link.
Really? What kind of advice is:

If your STBX files first, she's already plotted her next 10 moves against you. This is not where you want to be. If she files first, you can expect:

1) a restraining order that evicts you from your house and prevents you from contacting your kids.

2) to pay temporary child support, temporary alimony, community debt, and/or bills accumulated by your STBX during these proceedings. This can be 1 to 3 years. You'll be bankrupt well before trial.

3) to pay court costs and other fees, in addition to expenses mentioned above: GAL; Custody/Child Evaluator; Psychological evaluation; Your STBX's attorney fees.


And:

Lay out a trap-line for your STBX. Perpetually work on setting her up for the fall. You know her weakness. Bait her!! Give her every opportunity to make a mistake. Spring your trap in front of the camera and in front of witnesses. Document everything.

Why even post such a link? There are most certainly better ones out there, I would be sure....
 
Its a link to a men's rights site...like I said, I don't agree with a lot of the stuff on it and there are other links to other List sites...but there are some valid things and its worth reading for that reason.

Lol...I'm not the first person to post that link.

When I started my divorce, I read lots of stuff and there's lot of suggestions for good reading material on this site. I think that particular link is obviously a bit over the top but it also has some good suggestions on what to document and to expect.
 
Like a lot of reading - whether books or on the internet - you take some things and they are useful/helpful. Other things, not so much.

You have a tough road ahead but you've obtained some good advice. Definitely communicate by email only. And like PH said - who gives a shit what she (your stbx) says? There's all kinds of 'fee fi fo fum' when people are separating. Take the high road. Hopefully she'll put some of her threats and nastiness in writing ;)
 
Personally I like reading things about how the other side might view things. Like chess.

I suspect the article was penned by one of those negative adversary lawyers that we hear so much about....
 
arabian said:
Personally I like reading things about how the other side might view things. Like chess.

I suspect the article was penned by one of those negative adversary lawyers that we hear so much about....
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I just read part and closed the link. This is just poisonous rhetoric that gets things going in the wrong direction. If I could suggest one book to read it would be Tug of War by Justice Brownstone. It is easily obtainable from Amazon.ca:

Tug of War: A Judge's Verdict on Separation, Custody Battles, and the Bitter Realities of Family Court: Amazon.ca: Harvey Brownstone: Books
 
I don't think it is about to get nasty. It is nasty. You must defend yourself appropriately.

oink said:
1. She wants me to pay CS for stepdaughter even though I have never had a say in the girl's upbringing or been allowed to discipline her
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Of course she wants CS, who wouldn't want free money? You are not a parent of a stepchild though until a court rules as such, so don't pay a penny of CS for the stepdaughter until that point.

2. I have told her upfront I am willing to pay CS for my son, she gets half my pension (she is yet to provide her pension info due to the fact that she cashed out some of it during the mediation process and I know about this), and SS (If it's deemed that I have to, for 4.5yrs)
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Why are you offering anything? For CS, custody has to be established first, and then "appropriate" support will flow naturally from that point. Don't mention CS, this is not about CS.

Don't offer SS either. She has to prove entitlement. Until she proves it, don't give her a penny. If you start paying now, or agree to pay now, it might show that you agree that she is entitled.

3. I currently sleep on an inflated mattress in the office and she wants me to move out, and keeps repeating this
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Of course she wants you to move out. You do that, and you lose. The question is, why do you get the office, while she gets the bedroom? You should rotate on a nightly or weekly basis.

I don't get why husbands are always so willing to go sleep on the couch. Women are very capable of sleeping outside of their bed as well.

As somebody mentioned, you should sell the house. If she starts sleeping in the office, that might encourage her.

5. She is telling me that she is going to go for sole custody of our son, wants SS and CS for both kids
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Pretty standard fare. She threatens you and hopes that you cave. Obviously, you want shared custody. Don't accept a single second less than that. Don't listen to anybody who tells you to cave either.

That said, saying that she is going for sole custody is a declaration of war. Don't take it as anything less than that. Remember, this isn't about to get nasty, it is nasty, and she is out for your jugular, with her friends cheerleading in the background that she needs to expunge your presence and steal your money "for the children".

6. Made a comment like "by the time am done with you, you will wish you were still married to me.
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You need to immediately stop talking to her, and purchase a voice recorder. Everything should be in writing. Every time you talk to her you put yourself at risk of a fake domestic violence accusation, which will remove you from the house and lose you the custody of your children.

Stop talking to her.

Seriously, stop talking to her. You are living in the same house as somebody who is trying to destroy your relationship with your child. She is by far the worst enemy on the planet right now. Defend yourself, or suffer the consequences.

8. I don't have any family in this country and my son is the only thing have got. I am not going to waste time in mediation over CS, SS and the house sale, I am now more than ever prepared to go to court and take my chance.
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You don't necessarily have to go to court. Let her know in writing that you expect shared custody of your child, you expect the house to be put up for sale within X days, and do not even mention SS.

Wait until her lawyer asks her for a $20k retainer, that might change her tune a bit.

9. Back in Sept, I brought it to stbx attention that a daughter is smoking Marijuana, daughter admitted it and said she got it when she went away for a week to SW Ontario to stay with a friend. Over Xmas period stbx took the kids to my in-laws, she came back on the 30th Dec, I ask where daughter is and was told she is with same friend in SW Ontario where she got Marijuana from in the first place and will be there all week with the friend whose single parent mother works 2 jobs and is gone all day. I couldn't believe my ears, and was told by stbx "I have sole custody of her, and make the decisions"
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Get that in writing. That would certainly hinder her CS claim. The fact that she verbally said that is of no value.

The actual incident is of course completely irrelevant. Her capacity as a mother is irrelevant, you are not trying to get sole custody, so there is no need to tear her down at all.

You are an awesome involved father, as documented by you over the last few months. Therefore, you will have shared custody of your child.

And seriously, stop talking to her. And get a voice recorder, which you should never use since you should not be talking to her.
 
I was thinking the same when I first read it. It's not about to 'get' nasty. It already IS.

Quote by Janus "with her friends cheerleading in the background that she needs to expunge your presence and steal your money "for the children"."

And..
CS being "free money."

The first comment: speculation and hype/paranoia. The second: extreme (the analogy).
 
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I can understand your frustration with the legal process and not wanting to mediate. That will be a big decision for you.

I believe you push for the sale of the house. Perhaps get a few appraisals. Easier to deal with facts (appraisals) than with conjecture. You could get a court order for immediate home sale.

She has a 17 yr old daughter. I would not bring her up in any discussions whatsoever. If you bring the daughter's name into discussion, or documentation, you are acknowledging her. She is not your daughter.

Fight with facts and solid documentation to substantiate your position.
 
Janus and others.... Happy new year to you all by the way

I'll like to than you all for your support, I really need that right now to be honest and my sister in Europe has been my rock over the xmas period, she is more pissed at stbx than I am.

Everyone has pretty much said the same thing, STOP TALKING TO HER, which I have started doing, and only responding to her emails politely and sticking to the points.

She even sent me an email the other day saying, unless it's something to do with "our son", she left out her daughter in that email or matters relating to the house bills that we have nothing to say to each other. That is the only thing I have in writing close to the comment in the post above about her saying "I have sole custody of my daughter, and make the decisions".

She doesn't have money for a lawyer, and no I am not going to offer her anything. I am just going by the premise that she is entitled to 50% of my pension, CS and perhaps SS.

I have documentation where the daughter has to a friend who's parents are my friends, that "she can't wait for me to be officially out of her life, so she can throw a party"

The me sleeping in the office came about because she insisted on staying in the master bedroom, and then I just moved into the office sleeping on an inflated mattress from Canadian tire.

Arabian....we are currently in mediation and have our next date on the 14th, to go through the household items as well as other matters on the mediation list like CS, House etc

Please someone in detail and the obstacles if any of me getting a court order for the sale of the house? It's apparent that we can't live under the same roof and this will be one big burden off my shoulders.

I am going for joint custody, is this any different from shared custody, and is there any effect on the money paid? I have a diary going anyway right now as well as email trail, but am going to get the voice recorder as mentioned.

My intentions are not to make her look bad or paint her as a bad mother, I just want out of the relationship, have access to my son and continue to be a dad to him as I turn 40yrs old this year.

Arabian...do you really think that strategy will help my case of not paying CS for the stepdaughter? I mean it's clear the girl wants nothing to do with me, calls me by my first name, and doesn't acknowledge anything I say
 
oink said:
I am going for joint custody, is this any different from shared custody, and is there any effect on the money paid?
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Yes it is different. Joint custody allows each parent decision making authority on the major decisions relating to the child. So like, what school he goes to, religion, health etc. It doesn't mean each parent shall get an equal amount of parenting time.

Shared parenting means the child spends at least 40% of the time with one parent and 60% of the time with the other. For c/s purposes, shared parenting uses the offset method to determine c/s amounts. Meaning you take what you would pay to the ex based on your income, subtract what she would pay to you based on her income, and the person who has the higher amount pays that to the other parent.

They are two significantly distinct and different matters. You can have shared parenting without joint custody. You can have joint custody while being an every-other-weekend parent.

If you want to be a fixture in your kids life, you need to understand that you want shared parenting and joint custody (or parallel parenting - a decision making format you should read up on). Unless you are happy to settle to get the EOW-daddy-screwjob....

My intentions are not to make her look bad or paint her as a bad mother, I just want out of the relationship, have access to my son and continue to be a dad to him as I turn 40yrs old this year.
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You need to show that you are an involved parent and that you should stay involved. Journal all your daily activities with the child. Start taking cooking courses, child CPR courses and parenting after divorce courses. You want to show that you are willing to better yourself for the benefit of the child.

As for those that slag The List.....it may be extreme and wrote from a gender side, but those that have followed it - ie. been prepared and not allowd themselves to be dragged into any nuttiness - have been successful. It is a worst case scenario type thing that one should know about. One should always hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.
 
I just read part and closed the link. This is just poisonous rhetoric that gets things going in the wrong direction.
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LOL. Let me clarify one more time for those who didn't read the whole link or what I said about what part of that link is extremely relevant.

The part of "the list" I was referring to was specifically the part that talks about what to prepare and discusses what documentation to get copies of and out of the house. What things NOT to do...ie. don't move out of your marital residence without certain things in place...ie, agreement of what to do with the assets, temporary custody agreement, etc.

Obviously there are parts of that that are completely over the top but it is DEFINITELY worth reading especially considering the remarks this poster has made regarding the attitude of his stbx. He should definitely prepare for the worst and that link gives good advice on how to go about getting ready.

As I said, ignore the paranoia and war-like parts and concentrate on the "getting prepared" parts...like anything else you read, use what you can..there is some valuable information in there.
 
Pursuinghappiness said:
LOL. Let me clarify one more time for those who didn't read the whole link or what I said about what part of that link is extremely relevant.

The part of "the list" I was referring to was specifically the part that talks about what to prepare and discusses what documentation to get copies of and out of the house. What things NOT to do...ie. don't move out of your marital residence without certain things in place...ie, agreement of what to do with the assets, temporary custody agreement, etc.

Obviously there are parts of that that are completely over the top but it is DEFINITELY worth reading especially considering the remarks this poster has made regarding the attitude of his stbx. He should definitely prepare for the worst and that link gives good advice on how to go about getting ready.

As I said, ignore the paranoia and war-like parts and concentrate on the "getting prepared" parts...like anything else you read, use what you can..there is some valuable information in there.
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PH,

As one of the best posters on this site I highly recommend you read the messages posted by the poster who raised the objection to the materials you posted. As always, feel free to provide an objective review of the content the poster(s) in question prior to investing any more time defending the content of a link you provided.

Hope all is well with you.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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