Is claiming domestic violence in a divorce 'worth' it?

[Tayken]

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft

I am not a fan of this "textbook" that often is cited. There are hundreds of reasons but the basic ones are as follows:

1. The author doesn't follow "evidence based medicine" practices in any of his written or "therapeutic" practices.

2. To the best of the research I have done on the author I have not be able to identify any clinically related certifications for the author in question. (e.g. College Registrations for any clinical practices.)

3. The book lacks any citation to many of the statistics the author provides on "domestic violence". The footnotes are lacking significantly.

4. The primary element of the book overall is "fear". The lists of traits given are so generic you can apply anyone to them.

5. His work has been plagiarized before the courts (Ontario) by litigants even so far as using "stories" he presents in his book as the litigant's own personal experiences. (Simple plagiarized checker would highlight this absurdity to the courts - electronic trials/court records are REALLY needed.)

My recommendation to anyone reading this book would be to seek out other materials and in particular the work of Dr. Don Dunton:

Faculty Profile | UBC Psychology Department | University of British Columbia | Canada

http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conte...07-Women-who-perpetrate-intimate-violence.pdf

The Gender Paradigm and the Architecture of Antiscience
Donald G. Dutton, PhD
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada

http://www.responsiblerecovery.org/PDF/PartnerAbuse.pdf

http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conte...-FEMALE-PERPETRATORS-OF-INTIMATE-VIOLENCE.pdf

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[hadenough]

Yes, it was horrible advice (by Janus) - I'm sure all agree.. It was also obvious (to me) that it was a knee-jerk, sarcastic response . . Which *does not* excuse it at all. It would of course be foolish to use the advice as a "how-to" (to) handle a separation.

We need to strive to provide responsible advice/comments on here. I did have the police involved in my matter. What Tayken said is bang on. The police don't have anything to do with how it will impact on the Family Court side of things. The Family Courts and the Police don't "work together" on these matters, at all.

Although there was immediately a no direct contact order placed upon my ex, he was at no time prevented from seeing our child at that time (but it had to be arranged thru a 3rd party). That proved to be tricky.

My situation was real and did warrant the arrest of my ex. But to think that anyone would set another person up for this is just evil. (That's not a commentary on the OP's thread: it does sound as though she's got a potentially dangerous situation). Just as there should be consequences for abusers, there needs to be consequences for persons who leverage false allegations against their partners. Easier said than done, I'm sure.

Things undoubtedly, get lost in "the machine" that is Family Court and as many of us know: it takes a long time to go through all the cogs of that machine. Just my 2 cents.

 

[murphyslaw]

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft

I am not a fan of this "textbook" that often is cited. There are hundreds of reasons but the basic ones are as follows:

1. The author doesn't follow "evidence based medicine" practices in any of his written or "therapeutic" practices.

2. To the best of the research I have done on the author I have not be able to identify any clinically related certifications for the author in question. (e.g. College Registrations for any clinical practices.)

3. The book lacks any citation to many of the statistics the author provides on "domestic violence". The footnotes are lacking significantly.

4. The primary element of the book overall is "fear". The lists of traits given are so generic you can apply anyone to them.

5. His work has been plagiarized before the courts (Ontario) by litigants even so far as using "stories" he presents in his book as the litigant's own personal experiences. (Simple plagiarized checker would highlight this absurdity to the courts - electronic trials/court records are REALLY needed.)

My recommendation to anyone reading this book would be to seek out other materials and in particular the work of Dr. Don Dunton:

Faculty Profile | UBC Psychology Department | University of British Columbia | Canada

http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conte...07-Women-who-perpetrate-intimate-violence.pdf

The Gender Paradigm and the Architecture of Antiscience
Donald G. Dutton, PhD
University of British Columbia, Vancouver, Canada

http://www.responsiblerecovery.org/PDF/PartnerAbuse.pdf

http://lab.drdondutton.com/wp-conte...-FEMALE-PERPETRATORS-OF-INTIMATE-VIOLENCE.pdf

Good Luck!
Tayken

For actual victims (rather than those seeking to establish custody or get to the social housing list),this book(why does he do that) taught us a very valuable lesson.We are not alone.All those years of being blamed for his/her bad behaviour,mood swings ,rages -it wasn't our problem .We were not to blame.I personally was just happy to know that there was others out there with the same or similar situations.Would I use it in court?Probably not .But as a tool for someone getting out of a controlled relationship?Its a very handy one.Very simplistic but useful.

 

[Tayken]

For actual victims (rather than those seeking to establish custody or get to the social housing list),this book(why does he do that) taught us a very valuable lesson.

To project blame?

We are not alone.

And are gay, lesbian, male, female, and transgendered?

All those years of being blamed for his/her bad behaviour, mood swings, rages - it wasn't our problem.

What was the problem then?

We were not to blame. I personally was just happy to know that there was others out there with the same or similar situations.

Hopefully you got this through therapy and not a "book" that is gender biased and has no evidence based medicine to support its "theory".

Would I use it in court? Probably not. But as a tool for someone getting out of a controlled relationship? Its a very handy one. Very simplistic but useful.

There isn't anything "simplistic" about "intimate partner abuse". That is the problem with books like the one quoted. They are all geared towards setting up a "target of blame" and often insight unsubstantiated and biased arguments before the court based on a "theory" which has no shred of evidence in support of the claims being made by the person who read the book.

Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind. Reading a self-help book premised on a personal theory of a single author championed to be some "white knight" to a "movement" often creates more conflict in matters rather than solve them possibly.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[madm82]

Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind. Reading a self-help book premised on a personal theory of a single author championed to be some "white knight" to a "movement" often creates more conflict in matters rather than solve them possibly.

Good Luck!
Tayken

I have never read the book in question.
Your above statement is rather bold and narrow minded. don't you think? What works for one person may not be the remedy for the next

 

[Tayken]

I have never read the book in question.
Your above statement is rather bold and narrow minded. don't you think? What works for one person may not be the remedy for the next

How is it "bold" and "narrow minded"? I provided additional resources to qualified and recognized forensic psychology from a recognized Canadian clinician. If you need more citations I can provide them. It is something that the "author" in question is unable to do in their "published" materials.

Or do you just oppose the view that registered clinicians and not unqualified authors with no medical background should be taken as "therapeutic" experts?

I just pose an opposing argument and cite alternative and recognized sources of additional information in counter to the unsubstantiated and under researched generalized claims that are often made in the "domestic violence" industry.

The author no doubt has made a lot of money selling their book. I don't make any money posting public articles form recognized and registered Canadian medical professionals who provide insightful and well documented (and properly cited) evidence based (forensically sound) medicine. Which I note can easily be found using Google Search and don't have a price tag attached to them to read them. (Generally, good and proper research that is based on sound evidence based medicine comes this way because the author isn't profiting from their work and research but, improving a collective understanding of the subject matter to improve outcomes in medicine...)

Not sure how this constitutes a "bold" and "narrow minded" approach and would really be interesting in understanding how you came to that conclusion. Generally many of the non-clinical "self-help" books that are sold by these "gurus" has a price tag attached to it... They almost follow a multi-level marketing scheme at times. (Similar to the claims of the recent rash of "essential oils" being sold by "gurus".)

For example:

http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/young.html

Also, there is no question that I am a proponent of a public health care system where qualified and registered MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS address our citizens needs and not under-qualified or unqualified "gurus" of "medical information". I hold no punches on that opinion in any of my postings.

Feel free to think critically and not just be critical when responding...

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[OhMy]

Therapeutic intervention by qualified medical professionals is the best option for those who have truly been subjected to abuse of any kind.

I agree with this statement and also will say its the only way to recognize our own contributions.

The abuse cycle is just that. Yes, there is the 'abuser', however the target often becomes codependent. In order to stop the cycle, therapy is sometimes the only way.

I did find reading some of the non professional books was helpful on my journey of healing as it gave me reassurance that I wasn't alone.

But, the most helpful was therapy. Partly due to the 'gas-lighting' I was being subjected to. Apparently my psychiatrist doesn't think I'm crazy, which is reassuring .

 

[madm82]

Tayken, I had a whole response typed out for you and my freaking laptop restarted on me for those bleeeeeeeeepppping updates! I'm a little mad at it at the moment, so hopefully, I will be able to re-compose my response in a bit, as I now need a break from this thread. lol Grrr...........

 

[murphyslaw]

The book could just as easily have been applied to lesbian or gay relationships or violent woman to man-there is no barriers to controlling behaviours.While all your scientific stuff is great.You seem to forget that trying to get someone who has deep mental issues, and is currently targeting all their rage and frustration at you,into a medical treatment is nigh on impossible.

There is theory and there is real life.In theory we would say to our partner or spouse be they same sex or opposite-honey dearest...you seem to have some rage issues and possible psychotic tendencies,why don't we mosey on down to the doctor and see if he can get us some help?But kinda like suggestions of marriage counselling, that may not be met with a round of applause.

I take it from your deep mistrust of any female who has suffered from abuse that you were a victim of fraudulent accusations?That is a terrible thing to suffer and I do feel for you but please don't diminish those of us who have dealt with domestic violence.Often doctors pile on the pharmaceuticals for those who have gotten out of violent situations although counselling helps tremendously.

For those still in those situations who haven't left yet-getting a handle on any of the issues is a big help.It isnt going to make someone lie on an affidavit -only the person themselves can do that.If someone reads a book and decides to use this knowledge for the purpose of criminal activity,the book itself isn't to blame.That person has criminal tendencies and is going to follow those tendencies.There is plenty of people who happily break the law every chance they get for any reason they see fit,this seems to be limitless in family law.Rather than blame survivors of domestic abuse why don't you put the blame where it belongs -on a system where lying in court gets no punishment?Would so many people continue to abuse the system if they knew they would get punished ?Hardly.

 

[Tayken]

I agree with this statement and also will say its the only way to recognize our own contributions.

The abuse cycle is just that. Yes, there is the 'abuser', however the target often becomes codependent. In order to stop the cycle, therapy is sometimes the only way.

I did find reading some of the non professional books was helpful on my journey of healing as it gave me reassurance that I wasn't alone.

But, the most helpful was therapy.

I am not a fan of the non-clincial term of "codependency". It is miss used and is not a clinical term. Any licensed therapist (social worker, psychologist, psychiatrist, ... MEDICAL PRACTITIONER) who uses this term should not be. It isn't recognized in any medical ontology for any diagnosis.

Wikipedia summarizes the points better than I can...

Codependency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Going from one extreme to the other. Sometimes an individual can, in attempts to recover from codependency, go from being overly passive or overly giving to being overly aggressive or excessively selfish.[6] Many therapists maintain that finding a balance through healthy assertiveness (which leaves room for being a caring person and also engaging in healthy caring behavior), is true recovery from codependency and that becoming extremely selfish, a bully, or an otherwise conflict-addicted person, is not.[6][20]

Victim mentality. According to this perspective, developing a permanent stance of being a victim (having a "victim mentality") would also not constitute true recovery from codependency and could be another example of going from one extreme to another.[6] A victim mentality could also be seen as a part of one's original state of codependency (lack of empowerment causing one to feel like the "subject" of events rather than being an empowered actor).[6] Someone truly recovered from codependency would feel empowered and like an author of their life and actions rather than being at the mercy of outside forces.[6] A victim mentality may also occur in combination with passive–aggressive control issues.[6] From the perspective of moving beyond victim-hood, the capacity to forgive and let go (with exception of cases of very severe abuse) could also be signs of real recovery from codependency, but the willingness to endure further abuse would not.[6]

Caring for an individual with a physical addiction is not necessarily synonymous with pathology. To name the caregiver as a co-alcoholic responsible for the endurance of their partner's alcoholism for example, pathologizes caring behavior. The caregiver may only require assertiveness skills and the ability to place responsibility for the addiction on the other.[6][20]

Not all mental health professionals agree about codependence or its standard methods of treatment.[21] It is not listed in the DSM-IV-TR. Stan Katz & Liu, in "The Codependency Conspiracy: How to Break the Recovery Habit and Take Charge of Your Life," feel that codependence is over-diagnosed, and that many people who could be helped with shorter-term treatments instead become dependent on long-term self-help programs.

Some believe that codependency is not a negative trait, and does not need to be treated, as it is more likely a healthy personality trait taken to excess. Codependency in nonclinical populations has some links with favorable characteristics of family functioning.[22]

The language of, symptoms of, and treatment for codependence derive from the medical model suggesting a disease process underlies the behavior. There is no evidence that codependence is caused by a disease process, communicable or otherwise.

Some frequent users of the codependency concept use the word as an alternative to use the concept dysfunctional families, without statements that classify it as a disease.[23]

Not everything promoted by recovery agencies is a demonstrable scientific fact, some of it is based on fashion and faith alone.[24][25]

Melody Beattie, yet another non-clinician who coined the phrase "codependency" is about as credible as the author in question.

Commitments : People Who Read Too Much : Have all those pop psychology books of the last decade really been of much help? Or have they led us down the path to isolation and misery? - Los Angeles Times

So, did all that advice make men and women happier?

"No. What we ended up with is therapists teaching each other and their patients how not to be in a relationship," says Los Angeles therapist Marion Solomon.

Those messages turned us into a "self-oriented society who thinks that 'loving ourselves' is the prescription for psychological and emotional health," she says.

...

"In all honesty, I think so much of [the self-help movement] is just a sham," says Suzanna Walters, assistant professor of sociology at Georgetown University. "I think a lot of these people are real operators who are trying to distill complex ideas into little droplets of five steps to this and 12 steps to that."

...

"Those are so dangerous and so hurtful because the vulnerable general public reads these books and they diagnose themselves and end up feeling worse."

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[baldclub]

This thread is under "domestic violence" and I think it is inappropriate for anyone to make light of this issue. Domestic violence in itself is gender-neutral.

Amen. Thanks arabian. Exactly why I have a problem with:

There are many books that can give you an insight to an abuser, one I suggest is, "Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft.

Is there a version called "Why does she do that?" Wow, ladies you are all too smart to back this gender biased bullshit, I know you are. I don't condone any violence towards women, but I also don't condone any violence towards men, gay, transgender...whatever. And I know that this is not only perpetrated by men: my best friend is lesbian and she had been assaulted several times by her partner - I intervened in her situation when I found out.

DV has become a buzz word that the courts are beginning to role their eyes at.

Can't wait till that actually happens, although I know it is a fact for police already. When false allegations begin to receive disciplinary action I will be even happier.

 

[hadenough]

I received my education in abusive behavior by living with it for 10 years *groan* ... As for books, there's a little handbook I picked up one day called "Psychology of Relationships" ('a practical guide') by John Karter, a UKCP registered psychotherapist - that is mildly interesting.

The real "realizations" have come with time and good old common sense.

 

[madm82]

How is it "bold" and "narrow minded"? I provided additional resources to qualified and recognized forensic psychology from a recognized Canadian clinician. If you need more citations I can provide them. It is something that the "author" in question is unable to do in their "published" materials.

Or do you just oppose the view that registered clinicians and not unqualified authors with no medical background should be taken as "therapeutic" experts?

I just pose an opposing argument and cite alternative and recognized sources of additional information in counter to the unsubstantiated and under researched generalized claims that are often made in the "domestic violence" industry.

The author no doubt has made a lot of money selling their book. I don't make any money posting public articles form recognized and registered Canadian medical professionals who provide insightful and well documented (and properly cited) evidence based (forensically sound) medicine. Which I note can easily be found using Google Search and don't have a price tag attached to them to read them. (Generally, good and proper research that is based on sound evidence based medicine comes this way because the author isn't profiting from their work and research but, improving a collective understanding of the subject matter to improve outcomes in medicine...)

Not sure how this constitutes a "bold" and "narrow minded" approach and would really be interesting in understanding how you came to that conclusion. Generally many of the non-clinical "self-help" books that are sold by these "gurus" has a price tag attached to it... They almost follow a multi-level marketing scheme at times. (Similar to the claims of the recent rash of "essential oils" being sold by "gurus".)

For example:

A Critical Look at Gary Young, Young Living Essential Oils, and Raindrop Therapy

Also, there is no question that I am a proponent of a public health care system where qualified and registered MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS address our citizens needs and not under-qualified or unqualified "gurus" of "medical information". I hold no punches on that opinion in any of my postings.

Feel free to think critically and not just be critical when responding...

Good Luck!
Tayken

Here is the short version of what I had originally wrote;

Social sciences, psychology. Biased, biased, biased, biased. The book in question, I am confident in saying it probably is biased too.

Yes, Tayken, your referenced material has multiple references to follow it. I bet however, that the material used and referenced is also biased.
That is not always necessarily a bad thing when one is trying to prove a point, or influence to one's own way of thinking or point of view.

To say that all who have been abused need professional therapy, is very narrow minded however. And please, keep an open mind here;

If 5 people smoked cigarettes, and quit for 25 years, I bet you would hear 5 stories on how they quit. Why? Several reasons, including but not limited to, the reasons for wanting to quit- maybe needing too. The original length of time that they smoked for. the amount they smoked. Maybe even the reasons they smoked.
To tell all 5 of these people that the only way they could have quit if they were real smokers would have been through hypnotherapy, would be very narrow minded and bold. Why? Each had a unique and very different relationship with cigarettes, I bet.

Same with abuse. Abuse is a broad spectrum. Each person is a unique individual and needs to deal with it in a way that works for them. For some ( I would imagine the more severe cases) it is probably impossible to do it without professional help. For others, a book may be suffice. For some a combination, for others, nothing will ever help.

Lord knows I still get severe nightmares. So do my children All the professionals in the world haven't stopped those. Confiding in my husband- yes my children do too- help. We just get to talk about it, without analyzing anything, or delving into anything. It helps.

It was a workbook, that I think helped me recover a some of my self-esteem.

Please re-consider, how harsh your words may sound to those who truly found just a book helpful.

A lot of men are abused. A lot of men do not seek out counseling for it due to the stereotypes associated with it. I still bet you a lot of men read 'books' to help them deal with it.

 

[murphyslaw]

Abusers are not gender specific in any which way but there mentality is !Be they woman ,man ,lesbian,gay,transgendered ;abusers use the same methods of controlling and abusing their victims.There is no gender for victim either.The title of the book should have been "why does the a**hole do that"

 

[Tayken]

The book could just as easily have been applied to lesbian or gay relationships or violent woman to man-there is no barriers to controlling behaviours.

Why wasn't it then? Simple question. Complex answer. (See my post and citing to actual expert opinions above...)

While all your scientific stuff is great. You seem to forget that trying to get someone who has deep mental issues, and is currently targeting all their rage and frustration at you, into a medical treatment is nigh on impossible.

Impossible? I have more hope for those in need of proper medical treatment. I don't think it is impossible. I think it is harder to do when they have easy access to bad advice contained in "self-help" books that are not grounded in any medical background supporting their simplified views.

Also, these self-help books make conclusions on the medical needs of the accused "abuser" often making a simple statement that they are "narcissists". Which no longer even exists as a diagnosis in DSM-V today. So their whole theory falls short of reality as there is no clinical backing to support their "theory". Narcissism is no longer a medical diagnosis and was removed from DSM-V.

There is theory and there is real life.

The question is it "your" theory and "your life" that motivates your support or sound medical principals.

In theory we would say to our partner or spouse be they same sex or opposite-honey dearest...you seem to have some rage issues and possible psychotic tendencies, why don't we mosey on down to the doctor and see if he can get us some help?

What made you the medical expert on "psychotic tendencies". Do you even understand what the term "psychotic" even means? See why your interpretation as a non-medical "expert" isn't really the one anyone should go on?

Psychosis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What if that person were to go to a proper medical professional, that professional started to conduct evidence based medical tests like personality inventories, actual clinical DV scales and evidence came forward that you and your constant statement that the person in question is "psychotic" is actually "psychologically abusive" and you were the cause of the person's issues. This does happen before the court...

It is psychologically abusive for you to call your partner "psychotic" or "mentally ill"... Most people don't understand that. Also, it is a form of discrimination under the law to do so.

But kinda like suggestions of marriage counselling, that may not be met with a round of applause.

Probably not in a relationship where one person is projecting blame at their partner and calling them "psychotic". Also, couples therapy only works when both parties to the therapy are willing to take feedback. Going in and projecting blame and not exploring your own issues in the relationship and taking feedback is the real reason couples therapy often fails. One or BOTH parties to the therapy are unwilling to realize *their* problems as a couple.

I take it from your deep mistrust of any female who has suffered from abuse that you were a victim of fraudulent accusations?

Nope. I do research in the area of ontology (medical terminology) and medical-legal-lingo.

That is a terrible thing to suffer and I do feel for you but please don't diminish those of us who have dealt with domestic violence. Often doctors pile on the pharmaceuticals for those who have gotten out of violent situations although counselling helps tremendously.

Your "feelings" are not necessary. Also your conclusion is quite interesting.

For those still in those situations who haven't left yet-getting a handle on any of the issues is a big help.

Nor should these people be on a public message forum they should be seeking help from a registered and certified mental health professional qualified to give advice.

It isnt going to make someone lie on an affidavit - only the person themselves can do that.

False allegations of "domestic violence" and "child abuse" is a very complex form of abuse. Those who do this are often pathological in many areas of their lives.

If someone reads a book and decides to use this knowledge for the purpose of criminal activity, the book itself isn't to blame. That person has criminal tendencies and is going to follow those tendencies.

This is where you and I differ significantly. It isn't criminal in nature at all. It is psychological and the criminal justice system is NOT the system that should handle this problem. The medical system should be and investigating through therapeutic means the needs to support and help someone who does this. The criminal system of justice is not appropriate AT ALL.

There is plenty of people who happily break the law every chance they get for any reason they see fit, this seems to be limitless in family law.

There are limits to the use of "truisms" of claiming false allegations. Case law addresses this. Feel free to search "truisms" in CanLII and click on the links that come up for the Honourable Mr. Justice Pazaratz to see how they are resolved and addressed appropriately in the Family Court system.

Rather than blame survivors of domestic abuse why don't you put the blame where it belongs -on a system where lying in court gets no punishment?

Theraputic intervention is not about punishment. This is why you and I will never see eye to eye on this subject matter. You see vengeance and punishment where I recommend therapy and resolution to problems.

Would so many people continue to abuse the system if they knew they would get punished? Hardly.

The systemic issue is the need to better integrate the Family Law system with the Medical System. Until such time this happens and the proper experts (medical) are put forward at the beginning of matters where any allegation of "abuse" is made the system will be flawed.

It is easy to allege something hard to prove it. The first step to solving the problem is for medical professionals to get involved on the onset of any allegation of "abuse" and for the proper evidence based medicine (medical records of all parties involved) to be examined, proper testing (i.e. MMPI-II, et all) to be conducted on ALL parties involved and for there to be a medical and systemic review of the allegations with proper and medically sound findings.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[OhMy]

I am not a fan of the non-clincial term of "codependency". It is miss used and is not a clinical term. Any licensed therapist (social worker, psychologist, psychiatrist, ... MEDICAL PRACTITIONER) who uses this term should not be. It isn't recognized in any medical ontology for any diagnosis.

Wikipedia summarizes the points better than I can...

Codependency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Melody Beattie, yet another non-clinician who coined the phrase "codependency" is about as credible as the author in question.

Commitments : People Who Read Too Much : Have all those pop psychology books of the last decade really been of much help? Or have they led us down the path to isolation and misery? - Los Angeles Times



Good Luck!
Tayken

Well, perhaps my use of co-dependency was a broad stroke. My point was the target in an abusive situation needs to also recognize how they contribute to the cycle. Whether that is by, not leaving, not speaking out, not seeking help, setting boundaries etc etc etc. Also this is necessary to move forward in a healthy way in order to avoid a similar patterned relationship. Therapy is a necessary step to do this.

My use of the term co-dependency was similar to how we coin high conflict personalities. As that is also not a diagnosis, but a broad label which usually has an underlying cause. I know you will correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Tayken]

Here is the short version of what I had originally wrote;

Social sciences, psychology. Biased, biased, biased, biased. The book in question, I am confident in saying it probably is biased too.

Easy to make a blanket statement that all are biased. Harder to prove. Until such time you actually put some cogent and relevant evidence to your wide statement it really is just your personal opinion. Thanks for your personal opinion but, it doesn't sway me at all.

Yes, Tayken, your referenced material has multiple references to follow it. I bet however, that the material used and referenced is also biased.

Then, feel free to provide the evidence to that... I would be more than happy to address the materials.

That is not always necessarily a bad thing when one is trying to prove a point, or influence to one's own way of thinking or point of view.

Actually, I am a supporter of the de-identification of gender terminology in the area of "intimate partner abuse". So, I have no agenda but to bring awareness to the issues that all people have when it comes to "intimate partner abuse". More importantly, the most important people to all this are "children".

To say that all who have been abused need professional therapy, is very narrow minded however. And please, keep an open mind here;

How is it narrow minded? I guess Justice Mossip is narrow minded when she recommended in posted case law that parents in a matter needed long-term therapy...

If 5 people smoked cigarettes, and quit for 25 years, I bet you would hear 5 stories on how they quit. Why? Several reasons, including but not limited to, the reasons for wanting to quit- maybe needing too. The original length of time that they smoked for. the amount they smoked. Maybe even the reasons they smoked.
To tell all 5 of these people that the only way they could have quit if they were real smokers would have been through hypnotherapy, would be very narrow minded and bold. Why? Each had a unique and very different relationship with cigarettes, I bet.

Wow. Trying to debate "intimate partner abuse" with a quitting smoking analogy. I am speechless and not even going to respond to something so odd, improper and out of context to the topic at hand. To justify a response to such an analogy would only serve to minimize the true issues of "intimate partner abuse".

Same with abuse. Abuse is a broad spectrum. Each person is a unique individual and needs to deal with it in a way that works for them. For some ( I would imagine the more severe cases) it is probably impossible to do it without professional help. For others, a book may be suffice. For some a combination, for others, nothing will ever help.

My second wow.

Lord knows I still get severe nightmares. So do my children All the professionals in the world haven't stopped those. Confiding in my husband- yes my children do too- help. We just get to talk about it, without analyzing anything, or delving into anything. It helps.

Yet, you still get severe nightmares. Glad to see your personal therapy is working for you?

It was a workbook, that I think helped me recover a some of my self-esteem.

Actually, one of the best workbooks out there is Anxiety for Teens.

The Anxiety Workbook for Teens: Activities to Help You Deal with Anxiety and Worry: Amazon.ca: Lisa Schab: Books

Please re-consider, how harsh your words may sound to those who truly found just a book helpful.

My words are not "harsh" by any means. Your comment is offensive to me and are made in an attempt to paint me as "harsh". Suffice to say, your emotional ploy is quite transparent.

A lot of men are abused. A lot of men do not seek out counseling for it due to the stereotypes associated with it. I still bet you a lot of men read 'books' to help them deal with it.

Another emotional ploy in attempt to win favour in the argument? Not sure how you can support a book that is gender biased, lacks clinical support and paints a gender in such a negative light and then make this statement.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[baldclub]

That said, while family law is unfair, you can twist it to be unfair in your favour. Provoke another argument, then get the cops involved when he becomes abusive. Even if he doesn't become abusive, you know he meant to, so just talk about previous events, but make them sound like he just did it. Get a restraining order, and exclusive possession of the home.

Then, while he is struggling with the criminal law system, offer to make everything go away if he signs a separation agreement on your terms. He'll probably be happy to comply. As others have said, no need to officially make the divorce about domestic violence, you'll have your divorce in the year. The important thing is to win financially, and you can do it if you take the correct steps.

Try to play fair, and you are possibly going to lose half of your house.

Your call.

Janus, I read your posts and I laugh at some, agree with others but the comment above is waaay off base brother.

My situation was real and did warrant the arrest of my ex. But to think that anyone would set another person up for this is just evil. (That's not a commentary on the OP's thread: it does sound as though she's got a potentially dangerous situation). Just as there should be consequences for abusers, there needs to be consequences for persons who leverage false allegations against their partners. Easier said than done, I'm sure.

Exactly. There are cases that need serious intervention, the cycle of violence needs to stop. I remember as a kid going downstairs with a baseball bat to protect my aunt as her ex was on the prowl.

That people use false allegations to their advantage is damn revolting. Like those who falsely claim they have cancer to get money. False allegations of DV is probably worse as it removes children from the care of a parent, it is a major consideration when custody and access are reviewed by the courts.

My ex has been playing the game for a while. I learned at my settlement conference last week that the card has been played ten times in my case. Ten times! I sat there, when it was my turn to speak, I sighed and said I've heard it all before, yet I was only interested in finding solutions for our children.

 

[Tayken]

Abusers are not gender specific in any which way but there mentality is !

What is their "mentality" then? How is it specific? What clinical evidence can you support this with?

All abusers are "narcissists" / "egocentric"? Considering that DSM-V doesn't even support a clinical diagnosis anymore for "narcissism" it does bring to light a lot of the "self-help" attempts to paint all abusers with the same brush as "narcissists" which the large body of clinical reviewers to DSM subsequently removed as a diagnosis all together because of the large and unsubstantiated brush many allegations to this previous diagnosis was based on.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[murphyslaw]

I do not believe that all liars have mental issues forcing them to lie.Rather that many simply lie to get away with whatever they can.That is not to say that there is not people suffering from stress, depression and other ailments before the family courts.

The prisons are full of people who are serving time who should be in medical treatment but this does not mean that ALL criminals have mental issues.Just as not all high conflict family court participants are in need of medical intervention.Or maybe and more to the point-no amount of psychiatric help will help some people who just want to fight or just have to win.Many people are what they are .

A broad blanket of mental help for all Canadians is an interesting prospect.That in some shape or form I could agree with.Many illnesses are manifesting themselves, with stress or depression or anxiety as the root cause.Therapy or counselling could end up more cost efficient, and much healthier in the long run for many people.