Is claiming domestic violence in a divorce 'worth' it?

Janus said:
Out of curiosity, do you believe that there should be any consequences to the accuser when a charge of DV is not substantiated?
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I am not sure if you addressing this generally or to a specific person, but I will take the liberty to answer.
Being accused of something and being found guilty are two very different things. I am not a lawyer or educated in the legalities, but I do have some friends---in higher places so to speak and what they have shared with me is that hearsay is just that. To be found guilty takes a lot more than being accused of hitting or punching. It seems your suggestions has been acted out before and the courts hear the same thing over and over---I am abused. This is not to minimize how terrible, horrible, devestating DV is, yet crying wolf has to be done with caution.
There are more than one type of abuse, and this does cause complications. Is being punched worst than being emotionally and verbally bashed over and over.
It loses its impact if a judge heres a few cases a day and the same old phrase keeps coming up.
Personally I believe any lies or deception being brought in front of the courts should be punished. Judges, mediators, arbitrators and such dont like the idea of being fooled. There is ego involved major ego, so if you are going to accuse someone of behaviour you better have your ducks in a row, have clear evidence and make sure your case has its t's crossed and i';s dotted, otherwise you are setting yourself up to be dismissed and furthermore anything you do say that happens to be the truth will be also dismissed. A liar has no boundaries.
Off topic, I saw a tv show that interviewed an x-cop talking about how to deal with being stopped on the streets. He said your best chance is be honest. We have heard it all, and we dont do well with the idea of being thought a fool. Interestingly enough, I was stopped for talking on my cell phone and when approached the cop said you were talking on your cell phone and I said, "Yes I was." He asked for the usual reg, lis, insur. and I gave it all to him, checked me out and said," Be careful and have a nice day." Sometimes, yes sometimes it does "pay" to tell the truth.
My x was caught lying and believe me was pushed to the wall not by me and not physically, but for ever word he has ever uttered in his nasty mean rude tone, he is paying, big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
goosie77 said:
Yes, losing half of MY home that *I* have solely paid for IS unfair. And I will defend myself as much as possible, without faking something that will potentially ruin his life.

I don't need a big fat monthly cheque for anything, I have a successful career and he has never hindered it. I've always made more money than him until his current job, where he finally makes pretty much the same as me. I would never attempt to become the recipient of money I didn't rightfully deserve. Again, not something for which I could feel good about myself.
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This sounds totally reasonable and fair. Just proceed with caution and protect yourself as best you can. You do have a short marriage in your favour considering the MH was yours before you married.
Just be careful of the manipulation,,,, abusers are masters at twisting and turning things inside out and upside down.
Be safe!
 
Whatever you do, please be careful that all the money does not disappear into lawyer's hands. It is amazing how fast this can happen, at $350/hour, even if you don't go to court. Sometimes it is cheaper to give what the ex asks, even if it is not fair, than to fight it through lawyers. It also saves you time, stress and allows you to move on faster. I am surprised he did not get charged.
 
goosie77 said:
IF I wanted to blackmail him, I could easily screw him over in his ongoing court BS against his ex, as I've acted as his lawyer for years. Jumping sides would certainly hurt him and drag that whole nightmare out for him for forever. I have no plans on doing that unless he tries to be unfair to me. Karma and all that.
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that isnt karma, thats revenge.

Take the high road in this, the laws are in place for a reason. You can argue that he hasnt really lived there along time. By the way how long did you own the house before and when did he move in? Maybe offer him half the equity in the house since he moved in.

I wouldnt deal with the same lawyer though, you should each have ILA so no one can say later that the lawyer was biased towards one party. Just another way to cover your ass.
 
momforever1956 said:
Personally I believe any lies or deception being brought in front of the courts should be punished.
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I agree. The reality is though that false accusations of DV are not punished. As such, it remains a reasonable tool in the family law arsenal.

A liar has no boundaries.
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Humans have no boundaries, your qualification is, in my opinion, unnecessary.


My x was caught lying and believe me was pushed to the wall not by me and not physically, but for ever word he has ever uttered in his nasty mean rude tone, he is paying, big time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yup, that is what support is all about, redressing past wrongs.
 
Quote by Janus "Family law heavily rewards those who claim DV, especially if it is true. It would be silly to dismiss an available tactic out of..."

That is total BULLSHIT! If I was "rewarded" - I'd hate to see what penalized would have been! You are so out in left field. Chill the F out. You are beginning to sound like "Resourceful."

Merry Christmas Janus.
 
Janus said:
I agree. The reality is though that false accusations of DV are not punished. As such, it remains a reasonable tool in the family law arsenal.



Humans have no boundaries, your qualification is, in my opinion, unnecessary.




Yup, that is what support is all about, redressing past wrongs.
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You must be joking!!!!! If something isnt punished it then becomes an option. So I guess stealing is also ok if you dont get caught. Are you a mother? Do you consider yourself a role model?

I didnt say humans have no boundaries, I said liars have no boundaries and the courts, judges, arbitrators don't view liars in a very positive light, even when the next thing they say is the truth. The OP asked for advice and suggesting that she lie or make false accusations is not going to help her, instead set her up for a bad deal when in fact she is the victim and can deal with this in a moral fair way. I am speaking from personal experience, liars get caught eventually and then anything they say is dismissed.

Being a liar and deceptive and being caught is what got punished.
When opposing counself met with the med/arb in his office and complained that my x was sick and tired of being called a liar and a cheat, the arbitrator lifted his head from writing our settlement and said,"He is a liar and a cheat", and then signed our settlement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janus----I am all for women being heard. I am all for women's rights and being treated fairly, what I am opposed to is behaving like an immoral low life, with zero ethical behaviour. Please Please Please , if you are a mother, please reconsider how you believe a person should behave. You are setting an example to innocent minds that will give permission for disgusting behaviour and EVERYONE AT SOME POINT GETS CAUGHT!!!
 
Janus: To answer your question, No - it does not matter to me. I was simply clarifying for the other poster that you are not a "Mom." Seeing as that is a fact, I don't imagine that you take issue with my doing so.
 
Yeah and he's the only friend you have, Slug. Sad really. Your tacky remarks are not shocking to anyone. Tacky, tasteless and typical. Have a wonderful day.
 
Janus, once charges are laid the victim no longer has any say as to whether or not the crown proceeds with prosecution.

So sigining anything because someone is offering to 'make it all go away' would be very foolish.
 
This thread is under "domestic violence" and I think it is inappropriate for anyone to make light of this issue. Domestic violence in itself is gender-neutral.

Real people get hurt and seek to leave their relationships and start new lives. Sometimes the person being abused takes a very long time to get help and remove themselves and their children to a safe haven. An abused person is often incapable of leaving the abusive environment simply for financial reasons. Most victims of systemic domestic abuse have little self esteem, have been isolated from friends and support systems. Others have what friends and neighbors assume "normal" relationships because the abuser is ashamed at living in the abusive relationship and takes particular care to cover up the abuse.

Empathy, understanding and willingness to help - this is the least we can do to help people get to safety and start new lives.
 
Quote by WO: "Janus, once charges are laid the victim no longer has any say as to whether or not the crown proceeds with prosecution."

True - and it is not the accuser/victim who presses the charge. The police are mandated to do so, when they believe an offense has taken place. At that point, it is entirely out of the hands of the person who has been assaulted.

The accused then has a right to counsel and has the option to enter a guilty, or not guilty plea. Often, when there are a few charges, one or more of the charges may be 'dropped.' This happens quite a bit, esp if the accused has no prior convictions or "P.C's."

No person has the right to physically harm another (unless in self-defence). When one makes the decision to hit, choke, push or otherwise physically harm another person, in THIS country there are consequences for those actions. (Unfotunately, sometimes not enough "consequences.")
 
momforever1956 said:
There are many books that can give you an insight to an abuser, one I suggest is, "Why does he do that? by Lundy Bancroft.
There are many support groups for victims and it is a good idea to look into this, depending on where you live etc.
There is a bottom line, (the accountant in me) GET OUT!!!!!!!
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"Why Does He Do That?" Excellent book by Lundy Bancroft. I've read "tons" of books on abuse, and this is by far one of the best. It's also the very first book I read when I decided to research abuse.

I also highly agree with momforever1956 to join a support group. I did, and found myself helping others as much, actually more than helping myself.

And yes, GET OUT...ASAP. Certainly do not wait for decades like I did.
 
^ That's a great book and really was insightful for me.When it comes to getting out of an abusive relationship-sooner is always better.Financial hardship you can overcome ,however being systematically destroyed on a daily basis and robbed of every ounce of self esteem -that's harder to get over. :) However after reading this book I didn't take it so personally!
 
Blah blah blah, police, blah blah blah, family law, blah blah blah, bad idea...

Shaw v. Shaw, 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)
Date: 2008-03-25
Docket: 34/08
Parallel citations: 62 RFL (6th) 100
URL: CanLII - 2008 ONCJ 130 (CanLII)

These events have become routine and predictable in almost every allegation of spousal assault such that there is presumably some policy guiding the police and the Crown attorney and forestalling professional discretion in all such matters, no matter how remote the assault may be in time or indeed how trivial the contact. Spouses of every walk of life and often with completely unblemished prior character are routinely detained for a formal bail hearing for such assaults. Invariably, the defendant (not yet convicted) is excluded from his or her home and prevented from exercising custody of or access to the defendant’s children without any consideration of the factors that this court must apply by law before determining incidents of custody or access...

The way that the criminal justice system approaches the commencement of these matters, however, often wreaks family law havoc with the family unit of the defendant and the complainant, and in particular the children of those parties. Family courts decide custody and access issues on the basis of statute and case law defining the best interests of the children. The criminal justice system pays no attention to such interests because it is not geared up to do so nor are the participants widely trained in how the actions of the system — from the officer who refuses to release the defendant at the station, to the duty counsel who allows the defendant to agree to inappropriate conditions of release out of expediency — effect the lives of the members of the defendant’s family. Similarly the Superior Court is tasked with the duty of adjudicating the respective rights of the parties to remain in the matrimonial home pending the resolution of the matrimonial litigation. Routine orders excluding a party from the common home of the parties until the end of the criminal matter without thought to the consequences thereof, and without a remedy short of a bail review, place one party in a position of immediate superiority over the other party for as long as it takes (perhaps a year) for defended criminal charges to be resolved. Such rote treatment of all matters of domestic assault can lead, on the one hand, to concocted or exaggerated claims of criminal behaviour or, on the other hand, to innocent defendants pleading guilty at an early stage out of expediency or a shared desire with the complainant to start to rehabilitate the family unit.
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...

[8] I do not know what advice Mr. Shaw received from the unnamed lawyer whom he consulted before, as he put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no licensed lawyer in this province would have advised the father that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the mother’s transgressions to the police.

[9] I do not know with what police officers Mr. Shaw had contact at the Shelburne Police Service. I can only hope that the officers whom he saw there do not believe that complainants in criminal matters decide whether charges are, or are not, to be laid.

[10] I do not know what counsel were present at the bail hearing held in Ms. Shaw’s case, nor do I know whether the matter proceeded, as many such matters do proceed, on the basis of a consent release on terms. I hope that all counsel understand that the terms of release should have some rational bearing on the severity and timeliness of the charges that were then before the court. I have difficulty on this record understanding why the mother was required to abide by the majority of the terms on her recognizance — although I understand completely why the mother may have been prepared to sign just about anything to be released from jail.
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Never would want to read this in a CanLII decision:

I know that TheLitigant got bad advice from members of the online forum OttawaDivore.com from the poster Janus whom TheLitigant consulted before, as TheLitigant put it, asking for charges to be laid. I can only hope that no human with common sense even on a public message board would advise anyone that the fastest way to get custody and exclusive possession of the family home was to report the TheOtherParty's transgressions to the police.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
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