Interpreting Christmas

B

Beachnana

New member
Order states Christmas vacation shall be shared equally

Last day of school is Dec 22. First day back is Jan 8.
So Christmas holidays are 23Dec to January 7. 16 days so 8 days each.

Dad is now saying he should have Dec 22 noon ( when school gets out) to Dec 31. Mom is saying it’s Dec 23 to Dec 30 as per past practice and the agreement has been interpreted I. The past. 8 days each.

Dad insisted on the order that child is to be brought to the airport so that what it states. Now he wants to pick up from school.

So another vacation argument. How do you deal with this.
 
Then you tell him you are following the order as written. You will bring the child to the airport on the day listed.
 
She did and he then called to speak with the child (age 6) and preceded to tellhim he was going to come and get him for Christmas directly from school at which point the child looked at Mom and asked “ where will you be? Don’ t you want me at Christmas?” Mom said “of course I do but it’s Dad’s Christmas this year and I will be here at home but you will have fun”. Child then started crying and told Dad he wants to come and visit but after Christmas as he wants to be with this family at Christmas.

Threw everyone for a loop because there has been no big talk about Christmas just to keep things low key and not make a big deal about it. Now Dad made a point of telling child he will be with him at Christmas the child has put things together and is not happy.

So a mess!
 
Mom needs to remind dad (in writing) that he is to work out details with her not the child and to stop dragging kid into the middle.

Is it her year to have child over christmas?
 
Ugh, that is terribly manipulative behaviour, to tell the child something that hasn't been previously arranged between the adults, in an attempt to force the other adult to agree. My ex still does that, and it sucks. Although usually it's done to make you look like the mean parent, and in this case it seems to have backfired. Tell the child that you are still working out the exact day of departure with his dad, but it's dad's turn for Christmas so everybody has to deal with that and make their plans accordingly. He'll only miss a boring Christmas at Mom's because she's just going to spend the week cleaning because the real excitement is going to be New Years' there this year. Open stockings at midnight while drinking sparkling juice from fancy glasses!

Beachnana said:
Order states Christmas vacation shall be shared equally

Last day of school is Dec 22. First day back is Jan 8.
So Christmas holidays are 23Dec to January 7. 16 days so 8 days each.

Dad is now saying he should have Dec 22 noon ( when school gets out) to Dec 31. Mom is saying it’s Dec 23 to Dec 30 as per past practice and the agreement has been interpreted I. The past. 8 days each.

Dad insisted on the order that child is to be brought to the airport so that what it states. Now he wants to pick up from school.
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So these previous 'past practice' of the holidays being Dec 23 to 30 have been regardless of the school schedule? How much has that deviated from the order in the past? Deviating is on a case by case basis unless you mutually determined you like the deviation better and want to keep it going forward so you both agree to a Motion to Change and enshrine the deviation in a new order.

You haven't done that, so...

Shared equally makes me think the first week belongs to dad this year, and the second week belongs to mom. Not dad's week happens somewhere in the middle. Is there some practical child-focused reason that pickup at school on the 22nd doesn't work? There are 17 overnights between the 22nd (last day of school) and the 8th (first day back). It's very hard to share that perfectly equally unless you propose to wake the child for a middle of the night exchange.

Dad proposing Dec 22 to 31 gives him 9 overnights, leaving 8 for mom. That's 8 full days and two half days to dad, and seven full days and one half day to mom. I don't think it's unreasonable at all for a parent with so little access to have the extra bits of time.

You could always counter with being okay with pickup at school on the 22 (that saves you having to drive to the airport or even see dad - win!) if the other exchange happens on the 30th instead of the 31st. That gives dad 8 overnights and 9 for mom, 7 full days and two half days to dad, 8 full days and one half day to mom. I don't see that it makes a huge difference though unless you have plans for a long drive somewhere that exchange weekend for your holiday destination that you would prefer to be able to do earlier?
 
So in the past it’s been the 8 days each starting on the first Sat of the Christmas holidays and counting 8 days then transitioning on the evening of the evening of the the 8 day.

This year the holidays are late so that weekend is a big rush plus it also happens to be the childs birthday on the 23 rd of Dec.

Had a Dad first discussed his plans with Mom and made the arrangements prior to telling the child things would likely have gone smoother. But as usual Dad just announces his plans and then gets pissy” when Mom does not agreeing. - immediately threaten CAS and legal proceedings. This year is a little more stressful because the child has said I do not want to go for Christmas but will go after.

Mom has said we are celebrating Christmas when you get back but Child is not happy. Dad is not happy and Mom is not,happy. So I hate ££@%*% Christmas!
 
I suggested a drop off at the airport on Dec 22 1hour prior to flight. This has been the,previous practice on all visits.
Then return on the evening of the 30 th and pick up from the airport again as in previous years.
 
I should also say that there has not been one visit arranged that Dad has not,attempted to change the agreement to suit his needs.

This summer even though it was not his year to have first choice on vacation days he still managed to send many nasty emails demanding accommodation to,his schedule and called CAS when he could not get his own way.

CAS exonated Mom and suggested Dad was a bully.
 
I hate christmas too. My partners ex pulled this stunt the first year he was to have them. The ensuing disagreement painted him as an abusive bully and the kids stopped speaking to him. That led to us making our own plans the last few years. Sadly for your daughter her son is six making it harder.

Perhaps its time for her to just follow the agreement and put dad on ignore. Let him bluster about whatever. Hes a bully and paying attention to it feeds him. Your daughter has been more than reasonable with this jerk.
 
Beachnana said:
I should also say that there has not been one visit arranged that Dad has not,attempted to change the agreement to suit his needs.

This summer even though it was not his year to have first choice on vacation days he still managed to send many nasty emails demanding accommodation to,his schedule and called CAS when he could not get his own way.

CAS exonated Mom and suggested Dad was a bully.
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In the case of an ex who is a bully, you need an agreement that has less flexibility in language. Instead of it saying "Christmas is shared equally, with dad getting the first week in odd years and mom in even years" you need it to also say "regardless of when the Christmas holidays and child's birthday land, the first half of the holiday begins the first Saturday after school ends and the second week begins the second Sunday." That way, you can both predict years in advance what the days will be and can book any tickets accordingly and not have the same argument year after year.

She could suggest they agree to modify their agreement legally to be less vague and more predictable in future years to avoid these demands and discussions and modifications that confuse and upset the child. Maybe she could sweeten it with agreeing to his change this year while things are still vague, if he'll agree to change their order to reduce vagueness.
 
if order states that Chrstimas is to be shared equally then that would mean from 22nd after school until Dec 30th evening. Mom would have Dec 30th evening to drop to school

Dec 23rd to 30 makes no sense as the father wouldn't have a full weekend.

What is the issue with father picking up child from school anyway ?
 
when I was in school when the dismissal bell rang on the last day of school we considered that the start of our holidays.

Dad wanted it written into the agreement about the airport so it should be the airport. I would count the days in 24 hour periods. If the kid gets on the plane at 5pm then 5pm the next day counts as 24hrs or one day.

no sense in making it more complicated then it has to be.
 
Now that the child is upset about not spending Christmas with his Mom/Grandma, and to avoid a teary goodbye at the airport, might not be a bad idea for the Dad to pick up from School. Last day of school before Christmas would be a "fun" day, which should have the child in a good mood. Just my 2 cents, this is going to be my first official Christmas alone, so I really dont know whats ahead for myself. I'm learning from all of you, especially what to avoid, such as vague Court Orders.
 
Beachnana said:
So another vacation argument. How do you deal with this.
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I think that you can really tell a lot about the character of a custodial parent when they are faced with a situation where the NCP might get one or two days more than the agreement states. That's when you find out if they love their kid more than they hate their ex.

That said, this one is easy. He wants 8 days. He gets 8x24=192 hours.

But seriously, let him have the extra day. Airport, school, who cares.

Also, anyone who has vague agreements is crazy. Agreements should have days and hours specifically listed. You should know where your kids are going to be on December 27th, in the year 2021, at 11 in the morning. If you don't, then the agreement is too vague.
 
Janus said:
I think that you can really tell a lot about the character of a custodial parent when they are faced with a situation where the NCP might get one or two days more than the agreement states. That's when you find out if they love their kid more than they hate their ex.

That said, this one is easy. He wants 8 days. He gets 8x24=192 hours.

But seriously, let him have the extra day. Airport, school, who cares.

Also, anyone who has vague agreements is crazy. Agreements should have days and hours specifically listed. You should know where your kids are going to be on December 27th, in the year 2021, at 11 in the morning. If you don't, then the agreement is too vague.
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Janus there is a lot of truth in what you say. Both parties are so intent in their hate for each other they are both unable to deal civil on any occasion.

We had wanted an order which spelt out each visit in details but Dad just wanted to get it over with because he did not want to spend any more money on the agreement.

So vague is what we have for some things. But to be honest even on the parts that are spelt out Dad still always wants to change things and when he is given a no response he goes on a rant about his rights, his needs and how “ he will bring the full force of the judicial system and CAS onto Mom”. He knows the CAS contact by name!

So not much hope there. In his eyes being reasonable shows weakness. - his words!
 
Same situation here. Kids off dec 22-Jan 7. Mother is saying my half starts Jan 1. In the past 10 yrs we have deviated and she brought them to me dec 25 so kids were with us both. 2 weeks ago offered me the 24-29 and now all of a sudden she is mad at me because of $$$ that I am not obligated to give her, and has told me we will go as per court order. Fine! Your only hurting the kids. She can explain why all of a sudden they will be missing Christmas with my family. I say the half way mark is dec 30. She isn't budging. Don't know what to do. I go back to work Jan 2 so it will be a very short visit.
 
What a crazy time for parents trying to figure these holidays out. Its technically our first Christmas apart as last year we were amiable enough to spend it together for the kids sake, but this year its a new beginning. After weeks of asking via email and no response, I am assuming he is NOT going to be splitting the holidays.

I feel alone here sometimes, being the Mean Mom, thats thinking take the kids, cause I could sure use a break right now, especially during the Holidays. 2 active boys 3 & 7 to entertain for 2 weeks, I wouldn't even split it if i had the choice. That's my vent for today, thanks for listening.
 
Knee-jerk reaction no doubt Tandem.

Make "spectacular" plans for the week you have them... no looking back. Hopefully you can make arrangements with your employer. If not, make the best of what you have.

Your ex will have to deal with cranky, upset children... as I recall the part after Christmas is a real let-down and children are generally grumpy and bored. You will be the one to rescue them from their boredom with fabulous plans for the New Year! Keep positive and don't give her the satisfaction of a reaction. She's dirt. That is all.
 
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