How to Enforce SA

[kingstonmomof2]

My ex and I agreed on and signed a SA in Dec of 2015.

No Child Support but we DID agree on how expenses for the kids will be paid.

Hockey
Health Insurance Premiums
Cell phones
College etc.

How do I have things like this enforced? (after, of course, requests and reminders)

Thanks!!!

 

[blinkandimgone]

This link gives a very good explanation on special & extraordinary expenses:

My Ex Spouse Is Not Paying Our Children?s Expenses, What Do I Do? | John P. Schuman C.S., Child and Family Law | John P. Schuman

 

[kingstonmomof2]

Thank You Blink!!
I will check it out

 

[kingstonmomof2]

The family court office where I live are telling me that unless I have traditional CS involved with my SA or court order, FRO will NOT enforce or collect any money for me but I read this on the site that you sent me Blink.

"Second, some orders and agreements specify a specific dollar amount that the child support paying parent must pay every month toward special and extraordinary expenses. Other agreements state what percentage of the expense each parent will pay. If you are worried about the other parent paying his or her share of special and extraordinary expenses, then you really want to have a specific dollar amount set in the agreement or order, even if it may occasionally be too low an amount. This is because the Family Responsibility Office (FRO), will collect the other parent’s contribution to special and extraordinary expenses - but only if there is a specific dollar amount set out in the agreement or order."

We agreed on and included very specific dollar amounts in our SA. I wish I could call FRO to talk to someone but I have yet to find a # that doesn't require a Case #

 

[Tayken]

My ex and I agreed on and signed a SA in Dec of 2015.

No Child Support but we DID agree on how expenses for the kids will be paid.

Hockey
Health Insurance Premiums
Cell phones
College etc.

How do I have things like this enforced? (after, of course, requests and reminders)

Thanks!!!

1. Hockey is not a special nor is it an extraordinary expense. The only exception would be if you have a Midget or Major Midget player who is on a AAA team and is actually being actively scouted.

2. Health insurance premiums are usually co-paid by employers. Do you not have extended health coverage with your employer? Does the other parent not have extended health coverage either? This is something you could get covered but, the cost to bring the matter to court would far outweigh the monthly cost. Lawyers cost between 365-850 an hour. Going to motion takes about 18 hours of work generally. You do the math if it is worth taking to court.

3. Cell phones are NOT special nor are they extraordinary. They are a modern convenience and not needed. They would not qualify for any consideration.

4. Are the children attending post secondary school or training currently? If yes, you can get the other parent's obligations to pay roughly 1/3 the costs enforced. But, the child will have to possibly pay 1/3 and you will have to pay 1/3. (Depending on the income differences between parents etc...)

Your agreement is not enforceable by FRO. Stop calling them and wasting their time. Clearly you did not have any legal advice when writing up your agreement.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[kingstonmomof2]

1. Hockey is not a special nor is it an extraordinary expense. The only exception would be if you have a Midget or Major Midget player who is on a AAA team and is actually being actively scouted.

2. Health insurance premiums are usually co-paid by employers. Do you not have extended health coverage with your employer? Does the other parent not have extended health coverage either? This is something you could get covered but, the cost to bring the matter to court would far outweigh the monthly cost. Lawyers cost between 365-850 an hour. Going to motion takes about 18 hours of work generally. You do the math if it is worth taking to court.

3. Cell phones are NOT special nor are they extraordinary. They are a modern convenience and not needed. They would not qualify for any consideration.

4. Are the children attending post secondary school or training currently? If yes, you can get the other parent's obligations to pay roughly 1/3 the costs enforced. But, the child will have to possibly pay 1/3 and you will have to pay 1/3. (Depending on the income differences between parents etc...)

Your agreement is not enforceable by FRO. Stop calling them and wasting their time. Clearly you did not have any legal advice when writing up your agreement.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Thank you for all your positive feedback Tayken. Hope you are having a good day.

I did get legal advice and was told that as long as specific dollar amounts were clearly listed it would be ok. I think the point of my question was this. My ex agreed because, he felt it was fair I guess, to pay for a SMALL portion of some expenses but has not done so since Dec 15th. I was just wondering if there was a way to have him live up to his end of the deal.
I haven't wasted anyone's time at FRO because I don't have a case #.

So great example you have used above. It is written in our agreement that College will be split 1/3 1/3 1/3. How do I have him live up to that agreement?

I agree that cell phones are a privilege. He does as well BUT signed an agreement saying he would pay $15 per month for each child but hasn't.

He isn't being scouted but has played on the same team for the past 4 years. I pay $1,800 and he pays $500.

Health premiums are provide by ONE of our employers. (not ex's) and they COST (out of pocket) $30 per month ($15 would be his half) So, again, since we don't have a need to pay each other CS, are these other items not enforceable even though they are listed in detail with $ amounts in our agreement?

If they are....I would just like to know what steps I would need to take

 

[rockscan]

Register with FRO and submit the expenses. He can dispute them and say forget it or he can be responsible and pay. Taykens advice was to get you to decide if its worth going to court ($5000 and up) over $200 in costs but when youre registered with FRO then they add up.

 

[kingstonmomof2]

Register with FRO and submit the expenses. He can dispute them and say forget it or he can be responsible and pay. Taykens advice was to get you to decide if its worth going to court ($5000 and up) over $200 in costs but when youre registered with FRO then they add up.

Thanks Rockscan. Tayken's advice was dead opposite lol.

Ok, so since I didn't actually go to court (because the partied agreed before it went there) I have to do that now?

Maybe I just go to court house and talk to them there. Perhaps explaining things in person is better than over phone.

Thanks again for the feedback

 

[rockscan]

I dont really know how all that works. If you have an agreement you have to file it with the court to make it an order which is then filed with FRO. Once its with FRO you file the expenses. Its a tedious frustrating process but it gets the ball rolling with FRO. You may also want to advise your ex that you will be filing with FRO for recovery if he doesnt pay his share within x number of days. Or you can just file and open that can of worms.

Tayken does have good advice and while it may not be what you want to hear, it is something you should heed. Your ex can still refute the charges and not pay. If he does refute them then you would have to go to court to have an order enforced and that is a long and expensive process. For university expenses that will be a crapshoot as well so prepare yourself for that one. Make sure you have enough money to cover the costs for school in case you need to visit a judge for enforcement.

 

[Janus]

My ex and I agreed on and signed a SA in Dec of 2015.

No Child Support but we DID agree on how expenses for the kids will be paid.

The obvious question is what does your SA say? What exactly did you guys agree to do?

The wording in this case matters a lot. It can range from "just file it with FRO" to "you have nothing that can even be enforced".

 

[Tayken]

I did get legal advice and was told that as long as specific dollar amounts were clearly listed it would be ok.

Then I recommend you return to that legal professional for the clarity you are seeking.

I think the point of my question was this. My ex agreed because, he felt it was fair I guess, to pay for a SMALL portion of some expenses but has not done so since Dec 15th.

My point is that people can agree to all sorts of stupid nonsense and the courts are not obligated to enforce your agreement. If you made an agreement that the moon was made of spare ribs and the other parent said it wasn't at a later date do you think a court would enforce the "moon spare ribs" clause in your agreement.

I was just wondering if there was a way to have him live up to his end of the deal.

You can bring a motion but, based on the info provided... The court wouldn't enforce the agreement. (See spare ribs argument above.)

I haven't wasted anyone's time at FRO because I don't have a case #.

Nor would they give you one.

So great example you have used above. It is written in our agreement that College will be split 1/3 1/3 1/3. How do I have him live up to that agreement?

You retain a lawyer and have them bring the matter before a judge. You provide the case law that is found in another thread posted by another user. You also search the information on google as it is easily found.

I agree that cell phones are a privilege. He does as well BUT signed an agreement saying he would pay $15 per month for each child but hasn't.

I have a signed agreement with someone that the moon is made of spare ribs. For some reason the courts won't force the other person to state the moon is made of spare ribs.

He isn't being scouted but has played on the same team for the past 4 years. I pay $1,800 and he pays $500.

Not special nor extraordinary. Players in MHL (house league) pay this in red division when you consider some of the team budgets.

Health premiums are provide by ONE of our employers. (not ex's) and they COST (out of pocket) $30 per month ($15 would be his half) So, again, since we don't have a need to pay each other CS, are these other items not enforceable even though they are listed in detail with $ amounts in our agreement?

Really, you are going to go to court over 15$ a month? Penny wise - pound foolish.

If they are....I would just like to know what steps I would need to take

Penny wise - pound foolish.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[stripes]

No CS in your agreement? I think that if your agreement doesn't have CS in it, it's going to be difficult to get any part of it enforced. Parents can't just agree not to pay CS - it's the right of the child. I suspect that if you took the agreement to any FRO-like bureaucracy, the first thing they would say is "where's the child support?".

My advice would be to take your agreement to a new lawyer who will go over it to see what is legit and what is not. You may need to revise it substantially before you have something that would be accepted by a judge (the first step towards getting it enforced).

 

[Tayken]

No CS in your agreement? I think that if your agreement doesn't have CS in it, it's going to be difficult to get any part of it enforced. Parents can't just agree not to pay CS - it's the right of the child. I suspect that if you took the agreement to any FRO-like bureaucracy, the first thing they would say is "where's the child support?".

My advice would be to take your agreement to a new lawyer who will go over it to see what is legit and what is not. You may need to revise it substantially before you have something that would be accepted by a judge (the first step towards getting it enforced).

Technically they can agree and not seek the other parent pay the child support owing. Happens a lot. What they can't get is a judge to turn their agreement into an ORDER without the details of child support being outlined clearly.

In fact, I doubt a judge would endorse an agreement as an order where they have funny looking stuff about S7 like this poster is outlining. A judge's first order of business is what is allowable under law. They will strip out all the nonsense about telephones and things that are not S7.

The last thing they need is goofballs showing up to court asking for something that was endorsed as an order like this. Sally got an order stating cell phones were S7 therefor my kids cell phones are S7... Judges will only order that which is allowable under law (legislation and case law).

Stripes is correct about getting a new (or an actual lawyer) to review the current "agreement" to see what is actually an enforceable clause.

Good Luck!
Tayken