How do you get a vehicle appraised for NFP ?

plainNamedDad44

plainNamedDad44

New member
Hello all,

14 years ago, I brought a relatively high end vehicle into the marriage. How do I provide a court acceptable appraisal for its value at the time of marriage. I need this for NFP calculations.

I know this service exists for houses. Does something similar exist for automobiles.

Thanks for any help. Be well, be strong.
 
Haven't heard of this one before but try the following:

Auction houses, they can look at pictures and give an appraisal of it's value.
For current values you can go to mechanic and they should be able to provide an appraisal.

Do you have pictures of the vehicle, and it's mileage at the date of the marriage?
 
That may work. I would have to find a used car guide from 1999, for a 1996 vehicle. I will look into it. I still have to address mileage and condition.

Thank you for the responses.
 
DowntroddenDad said:
There are many automobile appraisers out there. If you can find one that has kept their copies of the Canadian Black Book, they can look up pricing from any year.

Canadian Automobile Appraisal and Insurance Links - Lant Insurance

You can get rough appraisals for current from Canadian Black Book website.
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Thank you DT ! thats exactly what I was hoping for. Will look into it. Correct me if I am wrong but the mileage of the vehicle should have been recorded on the ownership when I bought the car, no ? If so, I can contact MOT and retrieve the information.
 
plainNamedDad44 said:
That may work. I would have to find a used car guide from 1999, for a 1996 vehicle. I will look into it. I still have to address mileage and condition.

Thank you for the responses.
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Depends on the type of car that needs to be evaluated.

- 1996 Porsche 911 933 Turbo / 550 HP - 79,800 on AutoTrader.
- 1996 Doge Viper - 59,900
- 1996 Bentley Azure convertable - 49,900
- 1996 BMW Z3 Aniversary - 12,500

A vehicle that is from 1996 is not considered a "classic" so if you have a high end luxury car it is easy to get done. You can always use the black book to get the value. Justices often accept the black book value.

Canadian Black Book Car Values, New & Used Cars, Vehicle Prices.

I have to admit, I am curious to know what kind of 1996 vehicle would require an appraisal.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Tayken said:
Depends on the type of car that needs to be evaluated.

- 1996 Porsche 911 933 Turbo / 550 HP - 79,800 on AutoTrader.
- 1996 Doge Viper - 59,900
- 1996 Bentley Azure convertable - 49,900
- 1996 BMW Z3 Aniversary - 12,500

A vehicle that is from 1996 is not considered a "classic" so if you have a high end luxury car it is easy to get done. You can always use the black book to get the value. Justices often accept the black book value.

Canadian Black Book Car Values, New & Used Cars, Vehicle Prices.

I have to admit, I am curious to know what kind of 1996 vehicle would require an appraisal.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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Thank you Tayken,

So in your examples above, those are the appraised values of the vehicles in 1999 ?
 
plainNamedDad44 said:
Thank you Tayken,

So in your examples above, those are the appraised values of the vehicles in 1999 ?
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Those are autotrader.ca examples for 1996 vehicles at current market value as an asking price.

Often, listings can be used to establish value.

If you brought the vehicle "into the marriage" it may be a situation where the other party can't make a claim against the premarital asset.

If you have a car that is worth more than 50,000 I highly recommend you retain a barrister and solicitor to seek legal advice. The people providing advice on this site are NOT lawyers to fully inform you. Your best advice on anything regarding family law is from a qualified lawyer who is registered with the Law Society of Upper Canada and in good standing.

Good Luck!
Tayken
 
Tayken said:
Those are autotrader.ca examples for 1996 vehicles at current market value as an asking price.

Often, listings can be used to establish value.

If you brought the vehicle "into the marriage" it may be a situation where the other party can't make a claim against the premarital asset.

If you have a car that is worth more than 50,000 I highly recommend you retain a barrister and solicitor to seek legal advice. The people providing advice on this site are NOT lawyers to fully inform you. Your best advice on anything regarding family law is from a qualified lawyer who is registered with the Law Society of Upper Canada and in good standing.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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I do recall a similar discussion a few months back. If the vehicle has gained in value, i.e. its is a collectable car, then the gain in value can be split, unless you can go out of your way to show exclusive use etc. Splitting the depreciation if it has lost value would be substantially more difficult.

And yes, I'm not a lawyer, but I do work in the automotive field, and Black Book values would be a starting basis for valuation, assuming you can't demonstrate what you actually paid for it in 1999. Surely there must be a cancelled cheque?
 
DowntroddenDad said:
I do recall a similar discussion a few months back. If the vehicle has gained in value, i.e. its is a collectable car, then the gain in value can be split, unless you can go out of your way to show exclusive use etc. Splitting the depreciation if it has lost value would be substantially more difficult.

And yes, I'm not a lawyer, but I do work in the automotive field, and Black Book values would be a starting basis for valuation, assuming you can't demonstrate what you actually paid for it in 1999. Surely there must be a cancelled cheque?
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The car was sold during the marriage at a much lower price. Correct me if I am wrong please, but this sale during marriage at lower price (depreciation) should be irrelavent to calculation of NEP. Right ?
 
Regarding what you paid, your bank can provide statements for any date, so you don't need a cancelled cheque, just ask for the appropriate year/month and refer to the statement. You would only need the cancelled cheque if the other party is disputing your claim, which would be absurd IMHO.

Banks regularly provide back statements for divorcing clients and this should be no problem for your bank.

Regarding the black book value, I would just go with that. Again, unless the other party is disputing it, there is no reason to not simply enter this value in good faith. If they dispute it, then have them pay to research the actual appraised value in order to prove you wrong.

The practical reality of the NFP is that we can only guess what the dining room table is worth, we are rarely in a position to prove it. The same with 15 year old cars. Two parties should be able to come to agreement based on reasonable estimates, otherwise you will be spending $10,000 in legal costs to argue over $1,000.
 
If you sold it at a substantial loss, are you going to try and have that loss shared for the NFP? That would seem a bit cheeky to me, unless you sold it in order to finance something for the both of you, and at her insistence or direction.
 
a) You had $xx.xx worth assets coming into the marriage, minus $xx.xx debts.

b) You have $xx.xx assets coming out of the marriage, minus $xx.xx debts.

Subtract a) from b) and you have your net gain during the marriage. It doesn't really matter if you sold the car during the marriage; doubtless you bought another car. The value of the new car is included in b), the value of the old car is included in a).
 
DowntroddenDad said:
If you sold it at a substantial loss, are you going to try and have that loss shared for the NFP? That would seem a bit cheeky to me, unless you sold it in order to finance something for the both of you, and at her insistence or direction.
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"Cheeky" or not allowed. I'm only asking as I'm in exactly the opposite situation... STBX had a premarital property... it LOST significant value (i.e. >6 figures) then she sold it right before separation.

This is on her NFP statment... and represents a huge Capital Loss I am being hit up for. We're at the stage now where this will be ruled on at trial... but is there any chance she'll actually get this through?
 
must be some car....

I too am not a lawyer. In my opinion this "item" is totally irrelevant.

If I had a pair of diamond earrings before I got married and then sold them just before I got divorced I don't think it would be of any relevance. The earrings were my personal property before I got married and remained my personal property throughout the marriage.

I don't recall my lawyer asking me, at the time when I filed for divorce, if I had sold any personal items no matter what their value. My husband didn't wear earrings through our marriage. Same goes for expensive antiques I personally owned prior to our marriage.

Tell your ex to go blow it.
 
Are you talking about a car or property? Throughout the time of your marriage was the car or property included in any income tax filings? This MIGHT possibly then be relevant.

You would have to provide more information.
 
SomeGuy said:
This is on her NFP statment... and represents a huge Capital Loss I am being hit up for. We're at the stage now where this will be ruled on at trial... but is there any chance she'll actually get this through?
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The capital loss is for income tax purposes.

For the purposes of her NFP, if she still owned it, the item would be assessed a fair market value on the date of separation.

Presumably the amount she sold it for just before separation date is similar to the fair market value it would have had on separation date. There may be a few dollars difference; this is fair, as it is her property and she may sell it when she wishes.

You didn't lose anything from that sale, and she didn't gain. The most you could complain about, if she sold her asset and spent the money on hookers and blow a day before you separated, then her NFP would be significantly lower than it should be.

I don't think that's the case here. If she sold her asset just before separation, even if it was a loss, she still received market value. That amount was presumable still in her bank account, or was reasonably applied to debt, or spent in a way she was entitled to.
 
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