hearing scheduled: inviting 10 year old to testify

[kidsRworthit]

Situation: hearing to determine allegation of death threat from fiance uttered to father

Witnesses: fiance would like to invite 10 year old boy (father's son) as witness to support fiance's position that no death threat was uttered

Benefit of embroiling 10 year old boy in adult issue: father's position is benefit of involving boy at hearing (hockey league) for testimony is outweighed by stress and mental harm of him testifying. Also, parental alienation from mother and fiance are a monumental factor.

Question: is it common that a non-court hearing will factor age of witness, situation in question, and make a determination of what is appropriate.
That is, is it likely that based on this situation, the panel may determine having a 10 year old testify is unreasonable?

Your prompt insight appreciated!

 

[FWB]

@KidsRworthIt.....

Never had to deal with any drama like this before, but obviously different countries have diff rules when it comes to kids being witnesses in court matters

In most countries....it is required that the kid is "competent", and able to be cross examined. Now kids process info differently, so you can see how this can be quite daunting.

A good place to start for you might be this folks <--------------

If they can't help, they might know who might be able to

 

[Tayken]

Situation: hearing to determine allegation of death threat from fiance uttered to father

Is this a criminal trial or family law trial?

Witnesses: fiance would like to invite 10 year old boy (father's son) as witness to support fiance's position that no death threat was uttered

They would have already collected this evidence via video interview with the child if a criminal matter.

Benefit of embroiling 10 year old boy in adult issue:

There is absolutely NO BENEFIT. A parent/organization/litigant who does this to a 10 year old child and even brings this forward as an option will not be held in high regard.

If a death threat was uttered and there is a criminal charge allow the crown to do their job and but out. If this is a family law matter, it is rare that a judge will allow a child to speak at the age of 10 before the court. They would order OCL or Section 30 who is trained to do this if necessary.

father's position is benefit of involving boy at hearing (hockey league) for testimony is outweighed by stress and mental harm of him testifying.

There is no benefit to the child testifying unless it is a criminal matter and the child is a witness. Even then they are very cautious. But, I would leave it up to crown to deal with.

Hockey just isn't that important to utter death threats, file motions, etc... Only 0.003% of players in Ontario will make the NHL (est). Your child has a higher probability of winning a lottery I think than becoming a professional hockey player.

Also, parental alienation from mother and fiance are a monumental factor.

Just to warn you... The chances of a finding of Parental Alienation (PAS) is even worse odds than the child in question making the NHL. You need to read less on the internet about "alienation" and parent more.

There are very few PAS cases out there. If you are going to court about uttering death threats and nonsense like this what your family needs more is everyone to stop being stupid.

Question: is it common that a non-court hearing will factor age of witness, situation in question, and make a determination of what is appropriate.

If your child is being called to "testify" in a review board. Simply do not provide the parental consent. I would also advise the CAS of the organization making the demand and ask them to investigate the matter. No child should be appearing before a tribunal without parental consent.

That is, is it likely that based on this situation, the panel may determine having a 10 year old testify is unreasonable?

It is (a) unreasonable and (b) may be child abuse for this organization to demand a 10 year old minor child to "testify". If this is a review board you should be addressing your concerns with Hockey Canada and NOT this forum.

Your prompt insight appreciated!

You need to disengage in the nonsense. You need to reflect on your own conduct in these matters and think long and hard how you are impacting the children. You are equally to blame in this and you need to seek proper assistance rather than odd messages posted to a public message forum.

You more than the child need the help.

Good Luck!
Tayken

 

[stripes]

The idea of having a ten-year-old testify about not having heard a death threat (if I read you right) is profoundly awful. Children have the right to be protected from adult idiocy, not dragged in like footsoldiers for one parent or the other. If there is a criminal charge in the works, let the criminal justice system do its work and keep out of it. If there is no criminal charge, let it go. I can't fathom anyone even considering using a child in such a fashion.

I also can't believe an organization made up of responsible, non-idiotic adults, like a hockey league, would actually sanction the involvement of a minor child in what is obviously a dispute between two highly conflictual adults.

 

[FWB]

an organization made up of responsible, non-idiotic adults, like a hockey league

Ahahahahaha...I nearly fell off my chair reading this, good one

It will seem most of Hockey parents think their kids are going to make it to the big league, and due to this spend their every waking hour and dime driving up and down the country. If only the same energy will be put into the kid(s) education

Getting to the big league is one thing, surviving is another. It's funny how fighting in the game always seems to be OK when it's not their kid that is in a concussion

 

[arabian]

I'm sure the 9yr old is not enjoying living a continual nightmare life with these parents. The hockey arguments have been going on for quite some time now (previous posts on this forum dating back to fall of 2012).

I hope the judge issues a restraining order. [edit - I just reread and "hearing" is a hockey league hearing - even worse!]

Totally and utterly disgusting behaviour. Too bad the kid can't live with a relative.

 

[MS Mom]

Now this is a case where things are best left alone. Or, at the very least, leave the kid out of it. And, as the father of that child, you should be doing everything in your power to get your kid out of this adult issue and back onto the playground where he belongs.

 

[stripes]

I'm sure the 9yr old is not enjoying living a continual nightmare life with these parents. The hockey arguments have been going on for quite some time now (previous posts on this forum dating back to fall of 2012).

I hope the judge issues a restraining order. [edit - I just reread and "hearing" is a hockey league hearing - even worse!]

Totally and utterly disgusting behaviour. Too bad the kid can't live with a relative.

Because I have infinite amounts of time at my disposal, I clicked on the OP's username and it took me to a page for someone called Stepmom2, who appears to have ongoing issues with hostility towards her husband's ex, going back to 2009 and centering on similar issues (extracurricular expenses, living a couple of hours apart, etc). Don't know if they are the same person, but if so, this depressing saga could play out for years.

 

[arabian]

yeah I think it's possibly the same person... my computer hiccuped when I checked the old posts as well... probably a name change at one time

 

[Qrious]

I read and reread the OP's post.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why a minor hockey league would give a rat's a$$ about one adult uttering a threat to another. And then hold a "hearing" over it? What?

Can someone clear this up for me? What am I missing?

 

[Qrious]

Wait a minute.... was the recipient of the death threat a coach, by any chance?

No good deed goes unpunished.

 

[FWB]

about one adult uttering a threat to another.

errrrr.....because you can't go round making threats to people, and perhaps it happened in the hockey arena?

They (the minor hockey league folks) are trying to show that the place has zero tolerance to that sort of thing

 

[stripes]

If you really want to show that you have zero tolerance for this kind of behavior, you call the police rather than having "hearings" and involving ten-year-olds in a game of he-said/she-said. Uttering a threat of that sort is illegal - if you want to be serious about it, take it seriously. This just sounds like an ongoing squabble between adults who can't disengage their hostility towards each other.

 

[Qrious]

errrrr.....because you can't go round making threats to people, and perhaps it happened in the hockey arena?

They (the minor hockey league folks) are trying to show that the place has zero tolerance to that sort of thing

errr.... do you think a hockey league cares if one adult threatens another? If so, I'm calling my local hockey league and filing a complaint too. The league doesn't own the arena or enforce the law.

They would have rules around parent, coach, and referee conduct while participating in hockey, though, and this must be what's going on.

I can only assume there's a discipline committee meeting for the league because there was an altercation involving hockey parents and/or a coach/referee, of which someone was the dad and someone was the fiancee. The league wouldn't ask a child to "testify" - ludicrous. No way. Please, no way.

OP said the FIANCEE wants the kid to give testimony. Fiancee should get a kick in the pants for this idea. Work it out, grownups.

 

[FB_]

I referee hockey and I can tell you that hockey leagues take this stuff very seriously and there is zero tolerance.

I can totally see them having a hearing over it. However having a child present to discuss what they heard is simply not acceptable. I would never let them question my children over death threats. The hearing is basically to determine what disciplinary action should be taken on the person who uttered the death threat. The leagues do not in fact own the facilities but while they are "renting" them and they have the rights to allow or disallow anyone they choose into the arena. This even applies to publicly owned facilities. It's all in the rental agreements. I on two occasions had to call the police to deal with unruly parents. The facilities do not condone this behavior and will support you in removing someone from a facility even to the point of no trespass orders.

Hockey leagues hold hearings all the time over behavior. Mainly it's when the kids get suspended for something like fighting or other stupid acts of violence. I have been required to attend these hearings before as the referee. They basically question the kid as to why he did it. Will he do it again etc etc. The referee is their so simply provide a report of the incident and answer any questions that one might have.

 

[arabian]

Good to hear clarification on this subject from someone who is knowledgeable and experienced with refereeing.

While hockey is a national past time for many Canadians and many parents want their kids to be superstars, I don't understand why someone would want their children exposed to violence on a regular basis? Is it just the nature of the sport or do similar things happen at other "team" sports such as soccer, basketball, and the like?

I guess I was fortunate to raise a nerd-child who was into bowling! When the topic of hockey came up when he was young, I recall being quite relieved when he told me he hated skating. Through the years I've heard not one positive thing from parents who had their kids in hockey. For children coming from dysfunctional divorcing families it seems a strange activity to get your kids involved with. Just my personal opinion though... each to their own for sure.

 

[FB_]

Good to hear clarification on this subject from someone who is knowledgeable and experienced with refereeing.

While hockey is a national past time for many Canadians and many parents want their kids to be superstars, I don't understand why someone would want their children exposed to violence on a regular basis? Is it just the nature of the sport or do similar things happen at other "team" sports such as soccer, basketball, and the like?

I guess I was fortunate to raise a nerd-child who was into bowling! When the topic of hockey came up when he was young, I recall being quite relieved when he told me he hated skating. Through the years I've heard not one positive thing from parents who had their kids in hockey. For children coming from dysfunctional divorcing families it seems a strange activity to get your kids involved with. Just my personal opinion though... each to their own for sure.

I also play hockey, coach my son's hockey team and my daughter has also started hockey this year and we all love it.

The physical fitness aspect of hockey is phenomenal. The team building, problem solving skills, conflict resolution, fine and gross motor skills development are all great experiences for kids. know it is true that same could be said for soccer.

There are around 2,000,000 Canadians playing hockey (624,000 kids) every year. You hear about select incidents every year in the news but if you consider the amount of hockey played these are a very small percentage of games. I referee between 60 and 70 hockey games (A, AA, and AAA) every year and I can tell you fighting is not an issue in amateur hockey. Yes it does happen but there are some years I don't see any fights and when they do fight they are severely punished starting with a 3 game suspension for a first offence. Considering they only play between 30 and 40 games a year losing 10% of your season is not something most want to do.

EDIT: Not all parents want their kids to be superstars. I have both my kids in Rec hockey and do not have any plans on moving them up to play competitive hockey. All I hope is that they have fun, make some friends and get some great exercise.

 

[arabian]

Thanks again for clarification and information about amateur hockey. Sounds like you and your kids are having fun with the sport.

 

[FWB]

or do similar things happen at other "team" sports such as soccer, basketball, and the like?

Errrrr...no. I played football (soccer) right up to university (am damn good at it, still am), and coach it indoors and outdoors to kids now. Where I come from, we do keep scores, and yes kids do learn the rules, unlike the nonsense I see here

In soccer, there is absolutely no fighting allowed, and when it happens..you are sent off (red card), fined, banned for a few games both in local leagues, and at the international level if applicable

Yes Hockey is a fast game on ice, but having to play a 90mins minimum soccer game with no going to sit down and coming back willy nilly, is damn good cardio.

Do parents get all worked up at soccer, you betcha...but it's just banter

 

[arabian]

My very first part-time job (age 15 I believe) was to work at concession at golf course in summer and hockey arena in winter. I recall a scene at the hockey arena that has stayed with me my entire life.

Two mothers came into the concession area and got into an argument. The argument ended up with these two 30-something women in a knock-down cat fight with hair pulling and face punching. They were fighting over their kids (one kid had checked the other kid or something).

I will never forget that.