Tayken
Well-known member
It is also an organization supporting grandparents raising children whom their parents have abandoned.
Grandparents Denied Access
- Thread starter Patty60
- Start date
- Status
It is also an organization supporting grandparents raising children whom their parents have abandoned.
grandma@cangrands.com
New member
Access Facts
The grandparent access facts article came about in 1999 when my group in Oshawa was approached by Judy Atkinsons who wanted to cover our issues as part of her university course.
The grandparent access facts article came about in 1999 when my group in Oshawa was approached by Judy Atkinsons who wanted to cover our issues as part of her university course.
- Few studies have examined the consequences of divorce in the middle generation on the grandparent’s role. Grandparent roles are as diverse as the circumstances of their extended families (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).
- Grandparents often become a family’s first reserves in times of crisis. Grandparents act as fun playmates for children, role models, and family historians, mentors, and help establish self-esteem and security for children (Blau, 1984; Kornhaber & Woodward, 1981).
- Contemporary society has witnessed the evolution of the family from an extended family unit to the nuclear or modern family unit. It has been proposed that this nuclear family structure poses a barrier which isolates extended kin such as grandparents and enables kinship relationships to be regulated by personal preference and mutual interest (Leahy-Johnson and Barer, 1987).
- Since the 1970s the divorcing family has been the subject of research, legal reforms, and media attention, the recipient of specialized services and the source of concern regarding the death of the family. The nuclear family has been the focus of this attention, with little effects of divorce on the extended family (Brown, 1982; Duffy, 1982).
grandma@cangrands.com
New member
One potential aspect of the divorcee is the disruption or severance of the grandparents-grandchild relationship (Myers & Perrin, 1993).
Due to the increase in the life expectancy, most children have living grandparents. Coupled with the fact that more than 60% of divorced couples have at least one minor child, the potential for severed contact could be quite substantial (Spanier & Glick, 1981; as cited by Matthews & Sprey, 1984).
A study of divorce families in Alberta found that 54.2 % of extended family members reported difficulties in visiting and maintaining contact with their grandchildren, nieces and nephews (Andreiuk, 1994).
In examining post divorce kinship interactions, Spicer & Hampe (1995) concluded that being female and/or having custody was associated with a high level of interaction with blood relatives.
The gender of the parent may be less important than the awarding of custody, however, the two factors are closely related since it is customary for mothers to be awarded custody, particularly of minor children (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).
Social relations with paternal kin were found to decease for the children of divorce, particularly in the case of an absent father. Findings suggest that the adult child serves as a pivotal link between grandchildren and grandparent (Anspach, 1976).
Child access for the third parties is covered under the federal Divorce Act and provincial assess legislation. Access may be awarded if it is shown to be in the child’s best interest. Only Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have access legislation that presumes contact with grandparents is in the child’s best interest. This places the responsibility with parents to show serious cause why access would not be in the child’s best interest. Other provinces place responsibility onto the grandparents to prove that denied access will actually harm a child (Andreiuk, 1994).
All but three states in the U.S. have laws permitting grandparents to petition for visitation upon death or divorce of adult. This assures the grandparent the right to be heard in court, but it still remains for the court to decide if it is in the child’s best interest to visit with the grandparent (Derdeyn, 1985).
Grandparent visitation legislation has risen quite differently from other domestic relation laws, which generally follows social change. The changes in grandparents visitation legislation is seen as the product of intense political activity by today’s older citizens who are greater in number, healthier and more politically conscious and powerful than in the past (Derdeyn, 1985; Thompson et al, 1989).
In view of controversies surrounding the legal involvement in grandparent access, (Derdeyn, 1985) it would seem necessary to evaluate the success or failure of court ordered access arrangements, in order to facilitate court decisions regarding a grandparent-grandchild visitation.
A 1995 study by Kruk, found paternal grandparents more likely to be at risk for denied access in a divorce situation when the mother is the custodial parent. Maternal grandparents seem to be more at risk for denied access in a non divorce situation, where conflict is likely to be between grandparents and both adult child and the partner. Again reflective of past findings, the son was divorced and the non-custodial parent, while the daughter was married, custodial parent.
While each of the stories of denied access was unique, certain patterns emerged. In every separation or divorce circumstance, denied access to grandchildren was initiated by an ex-daughter-in-law. 100% of these cases involved paternal grandparents whose son did not have custody of his children. In many cases, the son is denied access as well during a similar period of time or was disengaged from the grandchildren' lives. (Atkinsons 1999)
This preponderance of access difficulties by paternal grandparents is noted in the literature and seen as a reflection of divorce rate and court awarded maternal custody of children (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Anspach, 1976; Furstenburg, 1981; Kalish & Visher, 1982; Leahy & Barer, 1987; Spicer & Hampe, 1975).
Grandparents who feel that the stated intent to pursue the matter in court if necessary, was the main factor in the resolution of the problem. The data lends support to Gladstone’s (1989) suggestion that grandparents are not necessarily powerless, and in fact may be able to renegotiate contact.
Despite an initial stage of tension between adult child and grandparent,
Due to the increase in the life expectancy, most children have living grandparents. Coupled with the fact that more than 60% of divorced couples have at least one minor child, the potential for severed contact could be quite substantial (Spanier & Glick, 1981; as cited by Matthews & Sprey, 1984).
A study of divorce families in Alberta found that 54.2 % of extended family members reported difficulties in visiting and maintaining contact with their grandchildren, nieces and nephews (Andreiuk, 1994).
In examining post divorce kinship interactions, Spicer & Hampe (1995) concluded that being female and/or having custody was associated with a high level of interaction with blood relatives.
The gender of the parent may be less important than the awarding of custody, however, the two factors are closely related since it is customary for mothers to be awarded custody, particularly of minor children (Matthews & Sprey, 1984).
Social relations with paternal kin were found to decease for the children of divorce, particularly in the case of an absent father. Findings suggest that the adult child serves as a pivotal link between grandchildren and grandparent (Anspach, 1976).
Child access for the third parties is covered under the federal Divorce Act and provincial assess legislation. Access may be awarded if it is shown to be in the child’s best interest. Only Quebec, Alberta and B.C. have access legislation that presumes contact with grandparents is in the child’s best interest. This places the responsibility with parents to show serious cause why access would not be in the child’s best interest. Other provinces place responsibility onto the grandparents to prove that denied access will actually harm a child (Andreiuk, 1994).
All but three states in the U.S. have laws permitting grandparents to petition for visitation upon death or divorce of adult. This assures the grandparent the right to be heard in court, but it still remains for the court to decide if it is in the child’s best interest to visit with the grandparent (Derdeyn, 1985).
Grandparent visitation legislation has risen quite differently from other domestic relation laws, which generally follows social change. The changes in grandparents visitation legislation is seen as the product of intense political activity by today’s older citizens who are greater in number, healthier and more politically conscious and powerful than in the past (Derdeyn, 1985; Thompson et al, 1989).
In view of controversies surrounding the legal involvement in grandparent access, (Derdeyn, 1985) it would seem necessary to evaluate the success or failure of court ordered access arrangements, in order to facilitate court decisions regarding a grandparent-grandchild visitation.
A 1995 study by Kruk, found paternal grandparents more likely to be at risk for denied access in a divorce situation when the mother is the custodial parent. Maternal grandparents seem to be more at risk for denied access in a non divorce situation, where conflict is likely to be between grandparents and both adult child and the partner. Again reflective of past findings, the son was divorced and the non-custodial parent, while the daughter was married, custodial parent.
While each of the stories of denied access was unique, certain patterns emerged. In every separation or divorce circumstance, denied access to grandchildren was initiated by an ex-daughter-in-law. 100% of these cases involved paternal grandparents whose son did not have custody of his children. In many cases, the son is denied access as well during a similar period of time or was disengaged from the grandchildren' lives. (Atkinsons 1999)
This preponderance of access difficulties by paternal grandparents is noted in the literature and seen as a reflection of divorce rate and court awarded maternal custody of children (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Anspach, 1976; Furstenburg, 1981; Kalish & Visher, 1982; Leahy & Barer, 1987; Spicer & Hampe, 1975).
Grandparents who feel that the stated intent to pursue the matter in court if necessary, was the main factor in the resolution of the problem. The data lends support to Gladstone’s (1989) suggestion that grandparents are not necessarily powerless, and in fact may be able to renegotiate contact.
Despite an initial stage of tension between adult child and grandparent,
grandma@cangrands.com
New member
things quickly settled into an arrangement not unlike the pre-existing the denied access. All reported friendly relations with the ex-child-in-law and the ability to see their grandchildren whenever they want, not only during assigned access times. These grandparents are now called upon to baby-sit, attend family functions such as birthday parties and sports events and can even take the grandchildren for weekends and vacations. Flexibility, communication and putting the best interests of the child ahead of hurt feelings were all cited as reasons for the diminished tension and increasingly co-operative arrangements that all had experienced since being awarded court ordered access. (Atkinsons 1999)
Access problems follow divorce, separation, or death of an adult child as well as conflict with the adult child or child-in-law in intact families. A substantial number of grandparents are able to restore contact using a variety of mediation strategies as well as the legal system. Those grandparents who have used these resources reported more positive outcomes than those who did not. (Atkinsons1999)
The process of divorce requires major reorganization, resulting in a variety of new, complex family networks. Diverse kinship alternatives exist following divorce and remarriage, with few rules on which relatives are to be included and excluded. As a result of the divorce experience, these altered kinship's systems vary from a very expansive system to a contracted and one-sided system, resulting in many implications for the family (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Johnson & Barer, 1987).
It is important to note that the custodial status is the main factor related to contact loss in separation and divorce cases. Grandparents of the custodial parent enjoy increased involvement with grandchildren, while grandparents of the non-custodial parent are at risk of diminished or denied contact. Present data supports the literature findings that most divorced fathers become non-custodial parents and many lose contact with their children (Kruk, 1995; Matthews & Sprey, 1984; Spicer &Hampe, 1975).
In a 1975 study, Robertson suggests that the most significant aspect of the bond between a grandparent and grandchildren is the fact that this tie is not direct, but mediated by the grandchild’s parents.
As long as mothers continue to be awarded sole custody of the children, the maternal grandparents will enjoy a closer relationship with grandchildren while the paternal grandparents will continue to be at risk for diminished or denied access (Myers & Perrin, 1993).
In Canada, the issue of grandparents’ rights of access to grandchildren has not been given recognition in legislation, with the exception of the provinces of Quebec, Alberta and B.C. In all other provinces, grandparents may only petition the courts for rights of access as interested third parties. In the absence of a specific statue providing grandparents with legal standing to access, there are continuing difficulties in obtaining contact with grandchildren (Kruk, 1995).
The existence of grandparent rights statues in the United States has effectively reduced the need for litigation (Wilson & DeShane, 1982). Many grandparents agree that law reform to further rights of access to grandchildren would likely act as a deterrent to denied access of grandchildren, thereby reducing the need for adversarial procedures.
In view of successful outcomes following court ordered access in the present study, it would seem necessary that further studies follow up on court-ordered visitations, evaluating ongoing relationships and identifying problems such as refusal to obey access orders. This would serve to facilitate legal and therapeutic professions in decisions regarding grandparent involvement in the mediation and legal process of divorcing families. (Atkinsons-1999)
Access problems follow divorce, separation, or death of an adult child as well as conflict with the adult child or child-in-law in intact families. A substantial number of grandparents are able to restore contact using a variety of mediation strategies as well as the legal system. Those grandparents who have used these resources reported more positive outcomes than those who did not. (Atkinsons1999)
The process of divorce requires major reorganization, resulting in a variety of new, complex family networks. Diverse kinship alternatives exist following divorce and remarriage, with few rules on which relatives are to be included and excluded. As a result of the divorce experience, these altered kinship's systems vary from a very expansive system to a contracted and one-sided system, resulting in many implications for the family (Ahrons & Bowman, 1982; Johnson & Barer, 1987).
It is important to note that the custodial status is the main factor related to contact loss in separation and divorce cases. Grandparents of the custodial parent enjoy increased involvement with grandchildren, while grandparents of the non-custodial parent are at risk of diminished or denied contact. Present data supports the literature findings that most divorced fathers become non-custodial parents and many lose contact with their children (Kruk, 1995; Matthews & Sprey, 1984; Spicer &Hampe, 1975).
In a 1975 study, Robertson suggests that the most significant aspect of the bond between a grandparent and grandchildren is the fact that this tie is not direct, but mediated by the grandchild’s parents.
As long as mothers continue to be awarded sole custody of the children, the maternal grandparents will enjoy a closer relationship with grandchildren while the paternal grandparents will continue to be at risk for diminished or denied access (Myers & Perrin, 1993).
In Canada, the issue of grandparents’ rights of access to grandchildren has not been given recognition in legislation, with the exception of the provinces of Quebec, Alberta and B.C. In all other provinces, grandparents may only petition the courts for rights of access as interested third parties. In the absence of a specific statue providing grandparents with legal standing to access, there are continuing difficulties in obtaining contact with grandchildren (Kruk, 1995).
The existence of grandparent rights statues in the United States has effectively reduced the need for litigation (Wilson & DeShane, 1982). Many grandparents agree that law reform to further rights of access to grandchildren would likely act as a deterrent to denied access of grandchildren, thereby reducing the need for adversarial procedures.
In view of successful outcomes following court ordered access in the present study, it would seem necessary that further studies follow up on court-ordered visitations, evaluating ongoing relationships and identifying problems such as refusal to obey access orders. This would serve to facilitate legal and therapeutic professions in decisions regarding grandparent involvement in the mediation and legal process of divorcing families. (Atkinsons-1999)
Tayken
Well-known member
Thank-you for spamming the message board with out dated studies with sample sizes that are too small for any real consideration.
Any grandparent who makes a request for access to the court against parents should be more than willing to consent to a full psychological examination.
Exploration as to why the parent of a child would not want their own parent involved in a child would be the key issue before the court and not what a grandparent "wants".
Although the role of a first generation relative is important a child's "best interests" is the key element of the argument before the court. Not what someone "wants" or their own personal "fears" and/or "anxieties".
When a grandparent takes the extreme action of going to court to get visitation rights to a child they are opening a can of worms that they may not want to.
The vast majority of overbearing parents never realize that their "rights" as parents ended when their child reaches the age of majority. A grandparent needs to look deep inside themselves and look at their own conduct as a parent prior to going to court on such an extreme request.
Maybe, being a better parent would have been better than going to court.
Good Luck!
Tayken
billiechic
New member
In the case of a grandparent being denied access, I would suspect that there is someone involved who is not putting the kids interests first (as is the case with most denial of access). No reasonable, good parent would deny a good, loving grandparent time with their grandchild. And no reasonable, good grandparent would take their child to court to gain access unless there was a serious problem with the behaviour of said child or the other parent.
It's just common sense. Wish it was really more "common" than it seems to be.
It's just common sense. Wish it was really more "common" than it seems to be.
standing on the sidelines
New member
or maybe the grandparents are nut jobs and the parent wants to protect their kids from that.
billiechic
New member
yup...and that would mean the Grandparents are the one's not putting the kids interests first.
You know what they say about nutjobs...every family has one, and if you think yours doesn't....
You know what they say about nutjobs...every family has one, and if you think yours doesn't....
standing on the sidelines
New member
lol if you cant pick out the nutjob then its you.yup...and that would mean the Grandparents are the one's not putting the kids interests first.
You know what they say about nutjobs...every family has one, and if you think yours doesn't....
Tayken
Well-known member
yup...and that would mean the Grandparents are the one's not putting the kids interests first.
You know what they say about nutjobs...every family has one, and if you think yours doesn't....
Generally, if the CAS isn't involved and there are serious issues with the parent... The grandparent has a closet full of skeletons with their child who is doesn't want them around their child (grandchild).
Most cases don't make it to court because the grandparent in question knows the truth. Only the most borderline grandparents pull this stunt off. Their affidavits are generally incredible feats of Axis II disordered personality examples out there to read.
Dr. Lawson covers it all in her book "The Borderline Mother". Axis II disordered parents breed axis II disordered kids. Generally access to a grandparent stops when the parent of the child realizes their parent has an Axis II disorder. They do this to protect the child from transference of the disorder.
Good Luck!
Tayken
Gary M
New member
All I know is that if this is a fire that can be fuelled, the Industry will be only too happy to oblige.
I can see it now: Former neighbors will be suing for access too... "My life hasn't been the same since Johnny moved down the street with his Mom/Dad. He used to throw his toys over the fence and it gave my cats something to do. I have a right to EOW."
Pretty soon everybody BUT the parents will have custody and access
Cheers!
Gary
I can see it now: Former neighbors will be suing for access too... "My life hasn't been the same since Johnny moved down the street with his Mom/Dad. He used to throw his toys over the fence and it gave my cats something to do. I have a right to EOW."
Pretty soon everybody BUT the parents will have custody and access
Cheers!
Gary
Tayken
Well-known member
All I know is that if this is a fire that can be fuelled, the Industry will be only too happy to oblige.
I can see it now: Former neighbors will be suing for access too... "My life hasn't been the same since Johnny moved down the street with his Mom/Dad. He used to throw his toys over the fence and it gave my cats something to do. I have a right to EOW."
Pretty soon everybody BUT the parents will have custody and access
Cheers!
Gary
Brilliant way to put it Gary. A dose of reality as one would always expect from you on the topic. Also a great way to frame the argument. The insanity of what constitutes access and who should have access has to end somewhere.
Good Luck!
Tayken
Access Dad
New member
Why don't you just let them live their lives. If you stop being a crusader, perhaps things would themselves out on their own. You have serious boudarie issues.
Pursuinghappiness
New member
Tayken:
Have you searched the Best Seller's list for the book tho?
Have you searched the Best Seller's list for the book tho?
Tayken
Well-known member
Just checked... The best seller is in another thread already and it isn't Patty60's book that is for sure.
It is "Fifty Shades of Grey" on the NYT list.
blinkandimgone
Moderator
Oh I think that's from the other thread......
Tayken
Well-known member
Well, it is now "later in the year" and approaching the "end of summer" and Patty60 has not come back to regale us with her success story before the court.
I wonder why?
hadenough
New member
My Grade 7 teacher, bless her she was a lovely old woman used to declare re: homework/assignments - "Not here...? Not done!" I'm thinking those words when it comes to the decision in P60's case.
Umm as for books- I hear "the wheat belly" continues to be a hot title.
Umm as for books- I hear "the wheat belly" continues to be a hot title.
Last edited:
Tayken
Well-known member
Quite possible she is attending to the daughter in question's own mental health issues?
Doing what most overbearing/possibly borderline disordered parents do which is... "Take over their child's life and do their child's homework for them and not let them fail. Even though in the long-run they are just making the situation worse for their child. Worry about how they will be seen as a parent when their child fails in life?"
Why kids need to fail to succeed in school - The Globe and Mail
Good Luck!
Tayken
Last edited:
- Status